Do we have a right to comment?

I have noticed this with a few threads on boards....

Leaving aside the predictable ignorant comment like all lone parents are geting a fortune from the government or all social welfare recipient are scroungers who dont want to work etc .....

Do we as tax payers and citizen have a right to question the system in anyway

My belief is that that people are entitled to any benefits that are available to them with out comment from anyone (provided they arnt committing fraud to get them )

but

We are entitled to comment on the system in general, and the reason we should be able to comment on the system is because we as tax payers are paying for it and there should be accountability for how out money is spent.

dvpower

mariaalice wrote: »

My belief is that that people are entitled to any benefits that are available to them with out comment from anyone (provided they arnt committing fraud to get them )

but

We are entitled to comment on the system in general, and the reason we should be able to comment on the system is because we as tax payers are paying for it and there should be accountability for how out money is spent.

The rules for claiming JSA are open to interpretation. So I might consider that an individual of reasonable capacity who is claiming JSA for an extended period of time is not actively looking for work and is therefore committing fraud.

You must be available for work and actively looking for work to qualify for Jobseeker's Allowance. You may be asked to show evidence that you are actively seeking work. For example, letters showing job applications or failure to get a job.

looksee

mariaalice wrote: »

Do we as tax payers and citizen have a right to question the system in anyway

My belief is that that people are entitled to any benefits that are available to them with out comment from anyone (provided they arnt committing fraud to get them )

There is a difference between commenting on the system, which we are entitled to do, and making generalised remarks about the individuals using the system.

If the system is being abused, then yes, we are entitled to demand that it should be monitored more carefully, or changed.

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

I have noticed this with a few threads on boards....

Leaving aside the predictable ignorant comment like all lone parents are geting a fortune from the government or all social welfare recipient are scroungers who dont want to work etc .....

Do we as tax payers and citizen have a right to question the system in anyway

My belief is that that people are entitled to any benefits that are available to them with out comment from anyone (provided they arnt committing fraud to get them )

but

We are entitled to comment on the system in general, and the reason we should be able to comment on the system is because we as tax payers are paying for it and there should be accountability for how out money is spent.

Of course we have the right to comment. We live here. We live under these laws, and we pay for their upkeep.

I worked for roughly 12 years in this country paying all sorts of taxes, and then I left the country to travel. When I came back I couldn't get work, and went on jobseekers benefit to provide the basics while i continued looking for work. Alas permanent work was not forthcoming, and I ended up going back to college to avoid sitting on my ass all day. I wasn't eligible for any grants and couldn't continue the welfare while in College. Now I'm back out of college, and am no longer eligible for jobseekers since its more than two years since I paid employment taxes in this country. (and i have the debts accrued while I was in college with little income) I'm jumping through hoops to get signed up for the normal welfare/dole system, and generally getting the run around. Without the generous support of my parents I'd have been screwed due to the bureaucracy of the system since I'm waiting 6 weeks for an interview (i applied 6 weeks ago).

The point I'm making is that people have the right to scrutinize on multiple levels. I had the right when I was working and paying taxes, I had the right when I was on jobseekers, I had the right when I was denied support while in full time education, and I certainly have the right now that I'm stuck waiting for an actual response to my request.

The current system has flaws running right through it. They're acknowledged flaws and generally well known. But they're unlikely to be fixed. A slight gesture every now and then to indicate progress but the problems I'm facing with the system now, were there ten years ago when my brother applied between jobs.

Greyfox

mariaalice wrote: »

Do we as tax payers and citizen have a right to question the system in anyway

Yes, of course we do. I have a right to comment on anything that directly effects me and it's very clear that improvments can be made with the current system. I believe I'm entitled to voice an opinion that I feel very strongly about, and that's the fact that I'm of the opinion that the lone parents allowance is too high and the dole should be cut a bit after 6 months and another cut after a year and we also need to improve on stopping fraud, this is all due to the fact that I believe we can no longer afford to have such a generous SW system when we have so many people struggleing in low paid jobs

Now only a very small minority of lone parents/people on the dole are wasters but I believe these wasters are a direct result of our generous SW system, these people exist due to the fact that the standard of living for them is not that much worse then someone on the minimum wage and because of this a small minority of people can't be bothered looking for a job, if SW was cut I believe it would cut down on these wasters

CDfm

I do believe that we should not criticise people for claiming their entitlements.

I had a neighbour who while claiming disability ran a business in his wifes name supplying plants & hanging baskets and their maintenance to businesses and government departments.

I dunno what happened amd he probably still does it.

We have an entitlement to comment as the system does offer a disincentive to work. It has a choice of extremes either totally employed or unemployed.

A lone parent who has never worked vs klaz -I now who is more deserving.

Chuchoter

Of course we should. Not least because we pay for it, but because if no-one is paying attention and giving opinions things tend to go to ****, as we have seen in various other things where no-one said anything.

minister poxbottle

You asked a question then answered it in your op.
This thread is a wasted effort

looksee

minister poxbottle wrote: »

You asked a question then answered it in your op.
This thread is a wasted effort

He asked a question, then gave his view on the subject, which is what he is supposed to do, if its worth discussing then people will contribute, if not then it will disappear into the abyss.

The point i was trying to make in regards to social services is that on boards a lot of the replies to such questions consists of tiresome stereotypes about social welfare loan parents etc......i was trying to widening the debate a bit

CDfm

mariaalice wrote: »

The point i was trying to make in regards to social services is that on boards a lot of the replies to such questions consists of tiresome stereotypes about social welfare loan parents etc......i was trying to widening the debate a bit

I think you are right because in certain matters they have a lot of discretionary powers, for example, in child custody and childcare matters they can be considered to be experts yet are not accountable.

So yes as a taxpayer and voter you should be asking.

Its like the report on the Banks, no-one had the expertise or on clerical abuse we didnt dare question the priests or christan brothers or nuns .Those must rank up there with the dog ate my homework list of excuses.

It is also worthwhile being able to say as a country we cant afford XY & Z and that the state is neither the ultimate Domestic Goddess or magic want in sorting out all manner of stuff.


We should be challenging.

Ultimately we vote in our governments and we must trust that they have the ability and desire to operate our country for us. However, as has been shown hundred of times in the past, different governments have shown different ability in managing the country effectively.

When it comes to the economic downturn, the banking crisis, NAMA, the property giants with their defaulting on loans etc. I believe that we, the population of this country, are also responsible for what happened. We didn't object to the increased spending, we didn't object to wage increases for public sectors, we didn't object to the politicians double pensions, etc. The information was there if we chose to look for it, and in some cases the media reported on it well before it became a major issue. And yet, we didn't object loud enough.

We still don't. We pass the buck, and keep relatively quiet. Oh, there might be a few protests, but ultimately these have had very little effect in the past, and are unlikely to do so in the future.

We are too quiet on the problems in our country. We pass the buck and blame those responsible for running our country or our banks. But we don't take responsibility for our own lack of scrutiny of public affairs.

Do we have a right to comment? Hell yes. In fact, we have the right to shout out loud. Alas, its a right rarely exercised except in the rather limited form of voting in different parties most of whom fail to meet the promises made before or during an election.

Denerick

mariaalice wrote: »

I have noticed this with a few threads on boards....

Leaving aside the predictable ignorant comment like all lone parents are geting a fortune from the government or all social welfare recipient are scroungers who dont want to work etc .....

Do we as tax payers and citizen have a right to question the system in anyway

My belief is that that people are entitled to any benefits that are available to them with out comment from anyone (provided they arnt committing fraud to get them )

but

We are entitled to comment on the system in general, and the reason we should be able to comment on the system is because we as tax payers are paying for it and there should be accountability for how out money is spent.

"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear."

George Orwell.

CDfm

Denerick wrote: »

"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear."

George Orwell.

that has been a huge problem in ireland where interest groups have a major sway over public policy in a way that is kept from the public

it really makes me angry the way irish domestic violence is handled where the funding is given to gender based interest groups rather than assessing what is needed the way public policy should do

the civil partnership bill is another con that is not about same sex marriage but has considerable impact on non married hetrosexual couples too

so as a country and electorate we get lied too and manipulated -this crap is wrong and as an electors we should be telling our politicians to stop lying and tell the truth and more ruthless about voting them out

Denerick

CDfm wrote: »

that has been a huge problem in ireland where interest groups have a major sway over public policy in a way that is kept from the public

it really makes me angry the way irish domestic violence is handled where the funding is given to gender based interest groups rather than assessing what is needed the way public policy should do

the civil partnership bill is another con that is not about same sex marriage but has considerable impact on non married hetrosexual couples too

so as a country and electorate we get lied too and manipulated -this crap is wrong and as an electors we should be telling our politicians to stop lying and tell the truth and more ruthless about voting them out

We get lied to - shockhorror! We get lied to all the time, by the state, by friends, by family. The only thing you can do as an individual is try your hardest to maintain your personal liberty against intrusion. I don't have a lot of time for party politics, its all so transparant and obviously ambition based. Don't be surprised when one bunch of **** (Politicians) Help out another bunch of **** (<Insert appropriate interest group here>)

CDfm

Denerick wrote: »

We get lied to - shockhorror! We get lied to all the time, by the state, by friends, by family. The only thing you can do as an individual is try your hardest to maintain your personal liberty against intrusion. I don't have a lot of time for party politics, its all so transparant and obviously ambition based. Don't be surprised when one bunch of **** (Politicians) Help out another bunch of **** (<Insert appropriate interest group here>)

lol at your shock horror

you know what i mean -irish policians are good news bears and this has lead to a type of spend spend spend and bribe bribe bribe financial management that is unreal.

when you have a situation where both the senior civil servants and politicians were analysed as not having the skills to do their jobs by Klaus Regling & Max Watson in the Preliminary Banking Report -well we need to ask why they have jobs. You know what , I think they did know as the economics of a small open economy is fairly basic.

So what the f*** have they learned or are they all scrambling trying to spin another set of lies

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0609/reglingwatson.pdf

Zombrex

mariaalice wrote: »

I have noticed this with a few threads on boards....

Leaving aside the predictable ignorant comment like all lone parents are geting a fortune from the government or all social welfare recipient are scroungers who dont want to work etc .....

Do we as tax payers and citizen have a right to question the system in anyway

My belief is that that people are entitled to any benefits that are available to them with out comment from anyone (provided they arnt committing fraud to get them )

but

We are entitled to comment on the system in general, and the reason we should be able to comment on the system is because we as tax payers are paying for it and there should be accountability for how out money is spent.

I'm confused?

Is someone stopping you from commenting on the current social welfare system in Ireland?

If not what are you complaining about? You seem to be asking do you have the right to do what you just did and which no one stopped you doing? That would be a yes.