Need advice.

dr gonzo

I cant think of a better place to ask for advice on MA then here, there seems to be a wealth of experience from many different fields. Anyway im slightly overweight, dreadfully unfit and just looking for something to get into socially and training wise which ive never had.

Ive done the 12 week Krav Maga course with Patrick Cumiskey which i throughly enjoyed.
Im in UCD and was looking at Kung Fu and Tae Kwon Do

So what do people think? KM seems good for self defense but probably not very good for fitness and weight loss while the other two seem great for that but not for self defense and on top of that ive little or no interest in competition or sparring(although i of course will take part if its in the training).

All advice welcome including completely different options to what ive put.

Cheers everyone.

Furious-Dave

If you're looking for fitness than a style that focuses a lot on sparring would be best. Looking at the UCD website there's plenty to choose from. The combat sports (Boxing, Wrestling, Mixed Martial Arts etc) are usually better for fitness as the level of fitness required to be good is a lot higher than traditional styles. Capoeira would also probably be good for fitness. Best thing you can do is go along to the different clubs and stick with the one you like best.

Good luck.

Opinicus

Don't rule out Judo. You'll soon find out how fit you are doing some groundwork with someone your own weight.:D

Took it up a few months ago and I must say I'm much fitter. You don't even realise what muscles you're using while you doing randori (all of them):D

Zen65

dr gonzo wrote: »

Im in UCD and was looking at Kung Fu and Tae Kwon Do

I know Bob the Shaolin (Kung Fu) instructor in UCD is very good.

The UCD Karate Club is also an option you should consider. The classes in that club are continuing through the summer, Mondays & Wednesdays. This club also has excellent instructors, and they include Goshindo (self defense aspect of karate) in their training programme. Don't be put off by your weight, like most student clubs, the karate club caters for a wide range of fitness levels, and there's a good social side to the club too.

Good luck with your search,

Z.

Sid_Justice

dr gonzo wrote: »

I cant think of a better place to ask for advice on MA then here, there seems to be a wealth of experience from many different fields. Anyway im slightly overweight, dreadfully unfit and just looking for something to get into socially and training wise which ive never had.

Ive done the 12 week Krav Maga course with Patrick Cumiskey which i throughly enjoyed.
Im in UCD and was looking at Kung Fu and Tae Kwon Do

So what do people think? KM seems good for self defense but probably not very good for fitness and weight loss while the other two seem great for that but not for self defense and on top of that ive little or no interest in competition or sparring(although i of course will take part if its in the training).

All advice welcome including completely different options to what ive put.

Cheers everyone.

Plenty of martial arts clubs in UCD but personally speaking I'd only use the Judo, Bjj/mma and the wrestling one. I don't think you'd fit in with the boxing.

I'm not sure if there will even be a Judo club next year, hopefully the MMA club will be around. All 4 are great for fitness and will take take people (with the exception of boxing imo) people starting with 0 fitness and help them work it up.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Judo @ UCD is gone.

Paul Cummins has had to move to his new club premises in Rathmines.

Craptacular

If it's fitness training you're after then I'd look for a fitness course. Maybe something like bootcamp. If I am training for 3 hours a week in a martial art I don't want to spend half that time working on my fitness. If the martial art training adds to or improves my fitness then great but I'd see it as an added benefit more than anything. I can run and do press ups on my own time.

As to which martial art to choose I can only say try as many as you can until you find the one you enjoy most. There's no point doing the most recommended one if you don't like it.

Doug Cartel

Craptacular wrote: »

If it's fitness training you're after then I'd look for a fitness course. Maybe something like bootcamp. If I am training for 3 hours a week in a martial art I don't want to spend half that time working on my fitness. If the martial art training adds to or improved my fitness then great but I'd see it as an added benefit more than anything. I can run and do press ups on my own time.

As to which martial art to chose I can only say try as many as you can until you find the one you enjoy most. There's no point doing the most recommended one if you don't like it.

Totally agree with this, but just want to add one thing.

If you're interested in MA for more than just the fitness, they you'd be better off starting with the martial arts first and then worrying about your fitness. If you decide to get fit first, you'll keep putting the MA off, feeling that you need to go that little bit further with your fitness before you can start.

I'll also say that if you're interested in defence, then you're going to have to learn to take your knocks and perform under pressure, and sparring and competition are probably the best way of doing this.

pablohoney87

Melissa Mammoth Glass wrote: »

Judo @ UCD is gone.

Paul Cummins has had to move to his new club premises in Rathmines.

Thats a shame.
Did a few months judo with paul in ucd a couple years ago. Great instructor and made the class really fun. Had to stop goin cuzzo the training times. Was nearly half 11 hettin home.

00MARTZ00

theres also a bujinkan ninjustsu club out in ucd if ur interested!

CaraFawn

Probably none of those martial arts will help you getting fit. Although boxing will probably do better than Judo, Ninjutsu etc

Most of them have warm up sessions to begin the class with, but that is pretty it, they are more warm up than anything else. You will burn a few calories, but not enough to get fit within a few months.

Now if you were to attend those classes every day, sure you will get fitter, but most of them are just like 1-2 hours a week.

Burning calories exercises (Swimming, running etc.) outside of those classes will most likely work better.

My 2 cents

Doug Cartel

CaraFawn wrote: »

Probably none of those martial arts will help you getting fit. Although boxing will probably do better than Judo, Ninjutsu etc

Most of them have warm up sessions to begin the class with, but that is pretty it, they are more warm up than anything else. You will burn a few calories, but not enough to get fit within a few months.

Now if you were to attend those classes every day, sure you will get fitter, but most of them are just like 1-2 hours a week.

Burning calories exercises (Swimming, running etc.) outside of those classes will most likely work better.

My 2 cents

I couldn't disagree with you more strongly. Boxing, MMA, BJJ, judo and wrestling are all excellent ways of getting fit.

For one thing, in judo the warm up is the easy part of the class. The tough part is when you have to fight everyone at the end of the class. It's like trying to lift weights that are actively trying to stop you lifting them, combined with doing HIIT.

Secondly, the fear of getting clocked while you're too knackered to defend yourself is one of the greatest motivations there is to go out and work on your fitness outside of class.

yomchi

CaraFawn wrote: »

Probably none of those martial arts will help you getting fit. Although boxing will probably do better than Judo, Ninjutsu etc

Most of them have warm up sessions to begin the class with, but that is pretty it, they are more warm up than anything else. You will burn a few calories, but not enough to get fit within a few months.

Now if you were to attend those classes every day, sure you will get fitter, but most of them are just like 1-2 hours a week.

Burning calories exercises (Swimming, running etc.) outside of those classes will most likely work better.

My 2 cents

A glorious generalisation. It depends on the instructor what kind of class is given. Judo won't get you fit?

You can keep your 2 cents

arybvtcw0eolkf

CaraFawn wrote: »

Probably none of those martial arts will help you getting fit. Although boxing will probably do better than Judo, Ninjutsu etc

Most of them have warm up sessions to begin the class with, but that is pretty it, they are more warm up than anything else. You will burn a few calories, but not enough to get fit within a few months.

Now if you were to attend those classes every day, sure you will get fitter, but most of them are just like 1-2 hours a week.

Burning calories exercises (Swimming, running etc.) outside of those classes will most likely work better.

My 2 cents

Whats your background in Martial Arts?.

Serious question.

CaraFawn

Doing 1-2 hours of martial arts in a week will not get you fit period!

Judo, karate, boxing, even though some would involve burning more calories like Boxing, still would not be enough to lose a significant amount of weight.

Like I said now if you are doing it several hours a week, that's another story of course and you will lose.

I agree some instructors would assign a large part of the training to the physical condition while others will focus on teaching the technics only. But most instructors would focus on the art itself, teaching the kata etc, not the physical condition of the student. Boxing and the likes being an exception probably.

Since I only meant to answer OP question (Losing weight) I also recommended to combine the martial art he will do, with swimming, running, combining both will really help.

That's all I said. I was not questionning the amount of effort you guys are putting into your training...and so let not question my martial background either because you read my post too quickly

arybvtcw0eolkf

CaraFawn wrote: »

Since I only meant to answer OP question (Losing weight) I also recommended to combine the martial art he will do, with swimming, running, combining both will really help.

That's all I said. I was not questionning the amount of effort you guys are putting into your training...and so let not question my martial background either because you read my post too quickly

This is a discussion forum, don't be surprised if you post something and someone picks up on it and wants to discuss it.

If you only want to converse with the OP of threads use the PM option in future & drop the attitude.

CaraFawn

Melissa Mammoth Glass wrote: »

This is a discussion forum, don't be surprised if you post something and someone picks up on it and wants to discuss it.

If you only want to converse with the OP of threads use the PM option in future & drop the attitude.

Well I am not arguing with you or looking for any confrontation, but you did dot want to discuss anything with me, straight away you questionned my background without knowing me and like if what I was saying was total BS.

The only thing I said is that none of those martial arts will get you fit if you do train 1 or 2 hours a week, like many classes are. Those 12 weeks of Krav Maga certainly did not help getting him fitter.
If you can do more hours, then yes you will lose weight. And if you combine with another sport like swimming and running you will lose even faster.
Some martial arts will be a lot more physical thus getting you fitter.

Take nin-jutsu for example, we do rollings, hand, arm locks, etc...we are still sweating, but not enough to get fit.

I do not think I am unrealistic saying that and I am sure you agree with that to some extend, maybe my wording was wrong, I am not a native english speaker.

Anyway, let's go back on topic.

arybvtcw0eolkf

CaraFawn wrote: »

Well I am not arguing with you or looking for any confrontation, but you did dot want to discuss anything with me, straight away you questionned my background without knowing me and like if what I was saying was total BS.

Actually what I done was to ask you about your background, not question you on it.

CaraFawn

Melissa Mammoth Glass wrote: »

Actually what I done was to ask you about your background, not question you on it.

Sorry, I took it the wrong way from reading your post, my bad.

arybvtcw0eolkf

CaraFawn wrote: »

Sorry, I took it the wrong way from reading your post, my bad.

No problem at all, welcome to the forum btw

Doug Cartel

So even though it seems (correct me if I'm wrong) you have no experience in judo, wrestling, boxing, MMA or BJJ, and you've never trained for a competition, and had cut weight, you're going to give advice on how much fitness these things require.

Olympic judoka, boxers and wrestlers, pro-MMA fighters and international class BJJ players - last time I checked they're usually in pretty good shape.

But I suppose you'll counter this by telling me they train more than 1-2 hours a week? No **** - anyone who takes these things seriously will train a lot more than 1-2 hours a week; and if you're not taking it seriously and putting some effort in it's not really going to matter what you're doing. 1-2 hours a week plodding along at a leisurely pace on the treadmill, or splishing about in the pool aren't going to do anything for you either.

CaraFawn

Doug Cartel wrote: »

So even though it seems (correct me if I'm wrong) you have no experience in judo, wrestling, boxing, MMA or BJJ, and you've never trained for a competition, and had cut weight, you're going to give advice on how much fitness these things require.

Olympic judoka, boxers and wrestlers, pro-MMA fighters and international class BJJ players - last time I checked they're usually in pretty good shape.

But I suppose you'll counter this by telling me they train more than 1-2 hours a week? No **** - anyone who takes these things seriously will train a lot more than 1-2 hours a week; and if you're not taking it seriously and putting some effort in it's not really going to matter what you're doing. 1-2 hours a week plodding along at a leisurely pace on the treadmill, or splishing about in the pool aren't going to do anything for you either.

You got it all wrong mate ok, I do not know why the need to make all those assumptions, what I explained has nothing to do with what you are saying and even making up here...

I never spoke about the level of fitness required to practice those arts either.

You mentionned:
"1-2 hours a week plodding along at a leisurely pace on the treadmill, or splishing about in the pool aren't going to do anything for you either."

That is exactly the point I made in my previous post. And whatever your art is, this is not gonna change the outcome.

You seem to believe that I said no Martial Art will get you fit, I did not say that, I said, 1-2 hours a week only of any martial art will not get you fit. Nuance.

Anyways, peace.

Doug Cartel

CaraFawn wrote: »

You got it all wrong mate ok, I do not know why the need to make all those assumptions, what I explained has nothing to do with what you are saying and even making up here...

I never spoke about the level of fitness required to practice those arts either.

How about we go back and look at what you said in post #11?

Probably none of those martial arts will help you getting fit. Although boxing will probably do better than Judo, Ninjutsu etc

Yeah...

You mentionned:
"1-2 hours a week plodding along at a leisurely pace on the treadmill, or splishing about in the pool aren't going to do anything for you either"

That is exactly the point I made in my previous post. And whatever your art is, this is not gonna change the outcome.

You seem to believe that I said no Martial Art will get you fit, I did not say that, I said, 1-2 hours a week only of any martial art will not get you fit. Nuance.

And if this is your attitude why bother doing anything?

I don't know what the deal is with UCD, but the TCD judo club has 6 hours a week of training, with extra when there are competitions coming up. The sessions themselves are tough going and then there's the training people do in their own time to help with their strength/fitness.

You're either saying that martial arts won't help you get you fit, or that college clubs are lazy and don't train enough. Which is it?

CaraFawn

Doug Cartel wrote: »

How about we go back and look at what you said in post #11? Yeah... And if this is your attitude why bother doing anything?

I don't know what the deal is with UCD, but the TCD judo club has 6 hours a week of training, with extra when there are competitions coming up. The sessions themselves are tough going and then there's the training people do in their own time to help with their strength/fitness.

You're either saying that martial arts won't help you get you fit, or that college clubs are lazy and don't train enough. Which is it?

Hu?
Chill out dude, you keep coming back with new arguments and stuffs I have not even mentionned.
I know enough of this shiit from a civilian and military point of view. You disagree with me, fine. Do not make things up and put words in my mouth, I never mentionned the things you are accusing me off.

/out of this thread

Doug Cartel

CaraFawn wrote: »

Hu?
Chill out dude, you keep coming back with new arguments and stuffs I have not even mentionned.
I know enough of this shiit from a civilian and military point of view. You disagree with me, fine. Do not make things up and put words in my mouth, I never mentionned the things you are accusing me off.

/out of this thread

At our judo club, provided people are willing to put the work in, we can help them get fit. I imagine the same goes for the clubs in UCD.

Now, do you have some reason to think that they cannot? Perhaps something from your civilian and military point of view is gives you this insight?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Now, do you have some reason to think that they cannot? Perhaps something from your civilian and military point of view is gives you this insight?

I think CaraFawn has more or less made whatever point they wanted to make.

They said English is not their first language so I think a little has been lost in translation.

For what its worth, I can see where both of you are coming from.

Doug your background is Judo isn't it?.. Thats hugely competitive so its in the Judoka's interest to put 100% into their training both in the club & outside, in their own time.

I find that mostly we lose people by their orange or green belt simply because they're not willing to put the extra work into becoming fighting fit.

I think CaraFawn is coming from a non-competitive background where people can casually waltz through their grading syllabus without any great requirement to acheive the levels of fitness you and I would say is required to be successful..

CaraFawn, IMO most styles will get you fitter than had you never set foot inside the club, some more so than other's. I think exposing yourself to a more competitive style might change your opinions.

Bujinkan

Yeah I'm with Makikomi on his last point. Most (not all!!) TMA don't place a great amount of importance on fitnesss which I think is a shame. Sporting arts really do place more importance on fitness. But you must also remember that alot of fitness training in Martial arts depends on the instructors physical fitness backround! I myself boxed amongst training in many other sporting martial arts when I was younger, so I have always brought fitness into training as one on the most important corner stones you can have. To the OP, if you are going to take up a martial art and you want to get fit then why dont you train in a MA and also do something like a bootcamp as suggested above! Thats the best way to get the best of both worlds if you ask me!!!!

Southern Dandy

OP if your still reading these posts then id advise you to go back with krav maga, those 12 week courses are a waste of time and your money, its all well and good showing you the moves but the right idea is to literally drill them into your head so they almost become relfex.

Start going to krav maga classes not these crash courses, the warm up alone is great exercise, ive being doing weights for years and would consider myself fit and it still puts me through my pases, if you look up martial art substitusions for exercise krav maga is one of the top if you go to the right class.

Baggio...

dr gonzo wrote: »

So what do people think? KM seems good for self defense but probably not very good for fitness and weight loss

Any martial art class will have elements of fitness (or should have).

I have a few KM lads that come down to train with me from time to time, and to be fair they are pretty fit. And often say their KM class is grueling. So don't rule it out if you want it for fitness.

12 week courses and the like, tend to just show course material so they often don't get a chance to get into the fitness elements. Unlike the consistency of a class.

But if you are looking for "extreme fitness", then anything that has competition (al la ring craft) will be the place to be.

Try a few out... if you have questions about TKD tho', drop Jon (or Yomchi) a line.

Southern Dandy wrote: »

12 week courses are a waste of time and your money, its all well and good showing you the moves but the right idea is to literally drill them into your head so they almost become relfex.

Good point - I would agree...

To paraphrase Geoff Thompson: "If you don't train hard and put the flight time in, don't expect your techniques to work for you when the time comes".