Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
King George V visit to Dublin in 1911
-
10-06-2010 10:44am#1
Comments
-
-
-
-
Also, there was an Unionist minority in South Dublin back then(Monkstown/Kingstown etc) which would of attracted an enthusiastic crowd. http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/exhibition/dublin/religion.html
Ordinary people would of been curious to see royalty anyway, cheer them on I find it hard to believe though
0 -
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
Also, there was an Unionist minority in South Dublin back then(Monkstown/Kingstown etc) which would of attracted an enthusiastic crowd. http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/exhibition/dublin/religion.html
Ordinary people would of been curious to see royalty anyway, cheer them on I find it hard to believe though
Protestants would have formed a majority in some Dublin suburbs, e.g. parts of "Kingstown" (Dun Laoghaire). Also numerous around Ballsbridge, Rathmines, Rathgar, (old) Foxrock, etc. But there would have been many Catholics out to welcome them also. E.g. "Castle Catholics" who were happy with the UK status quo, and Nationalists who did not necessarily oppose the monarchy - but looked forward to Home Rule, just around corner. For example, Arthur Griffith the founder of Sinn Fein initially outlined an Austro-Hungarian solution where there were different parliaments, but a shared monarchy (not sure what he made of the visit though).
With Home Rule almost there & increasing economic prosperity, the political situation was relatively settled. The growing class Labour disputes and the problems of Dublin slums would have directed their anger more at the Irish capitalist elite, than the King.
The description of the time says that 1000s of well-wishers lined the streets from Kingstown to Dublin Castle, which is a lot of people.
From looking around, I can't find many descriptions of protests. This is in contrast to previous visits like 1903 where some more hardline Nationalists like Maud Gonne did publically protest. The timing of the Boer War was also influential in these protests though.
There's a good summary of Dublin at the time here:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/exhibition/dublin/main.html
Interestingly it describes Dublin at the time as "a mass of contradictions". Which is a good constrast to sometimes simplistic views of history we get from "national narratives".0 -
johnny_doyle wrote: »some medals were issued to members of the RIC, copies of which can be found :
http://www.theeasterrising.eu/140RoyalVisits/RV.htm
http://irishconstabulary.com/topic/517/t/Visit-to-Ireland-Medals.html
there's mention of some protests in the following article but no details
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/033001/f2/033001-1402.5-e.pdf
Some photos on the RTE webpage at :
https://stillslibrary.rte.ie/indexplus/result.html?%24+with+rte_occupations_th_h+from+1.ZZZX%403Z+to+1.ZZZX%403Z~=.&_IXACTION_=query&_IXFIRST_=1&_IXSPFX_=templates%2Fb&_IXFPFX_=templates%2Ft&with+image_sort=.
There are all sorts of interesting pics on that RTE 'Stills' site - thanks for posting. I think even the most hardened republican (of all types) will have to admit that the camera doesn't lie and the crowds can't all have been protestants from Foxrock and Kingstown.
0 -
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
Judgement Day wrote: »Why would I like to exaggerate, I am interested in history not fantasy? You clearly have a problem with this ancient bit of our history and there are plenty of pics showing crowds - O'Connell Bridge being one. Anyway I was thanking the OP for drawing my attention to the RTE 'stills' site in general as there are all sorts of interesting pics and I never knew about the site before.
College Green: https://stillslibrary.rte.ie/indexplus/result.html?_IXMAXHITS_=1&_IXACTION_=query&_IXFIRST_=30&_IXSR_=WyhH0WaFXNo&_IXSS_=_IXMAXHITS_%3d10%26_IXFPFX_%3dtemplates%252ft%26_IXFIRST_%3d1%26%252asform%3d%252fweb%252fsearch_forms%252fadvanced%26%2524%253dsi%3dtext%26_IXACTION_%3dquery%26_IXSESSION_%3dJ_FDPhOeYHp%26_IXINITSR_%3dy%26%2524%253dsort%3dsort%2bdescending%2bsortexpr%2bimage_sort%26search%3dsearch%26%252aiexe%2bSECURITY_filter%3d%252e%26%2524%253ds%3dking%2bgeorge%2bvisit%26text_search_context%3dKing%2bgeorge%2bvisit%26%253cphoto_taken_date_earliest%3d&_IXSPFX_=templates/t&_IXFPFX_=templates/t
O'Connell Bridge: https://stillslibrary.rte.ie/indexplus/result.html?_IXMAXHITS_=1&_IXACTION_=query&_IXFIRST_=31&_IXSR_=WyhH0WaFXNo&_IXSS_=_IXMAXHITS_%3d10%26_IXFPFX_%3dtemplates%252ft%26_IXFIRST_%3d1%26%252asform%3d%252fweb%252fsearch_forms%252fadvanced%26%2524%253dsi%3dtext%26_IXACTION_%3dquery%26_IXSESSION_%3dJ_FDPhOeYHp%26_IXINITSR_%3dy%26%2524%253dsort%3dsort%2bdescending%2bsortexpr%2bimage_sort%26search%3dsearch%26%252aiexe%2bSECURITY_filter%3d%252e%26%2524%253ds%3dking%2bgeorge%2bvisit%26text_search_context%3dKing%2bgeorge%2bvisit%26%253cphoto_taken_date_earliest%3d&_IXSPFX_=templates/t&_IXFPFX_=templates/tJudgement Day wrote: »
Were they cheering? Were they carrying Union Jack flags and bunting? Those big letters RTE across the photo's distorts the picture.
To me, they look like onlookers curious to have a gawk at a King on a visit as a big event like that didn't happen alot in those days. And yes, if I was around in 1911, i'd pop along to see the fuss and the extravagance of royalty.0 -
-
Gurramok - Some of them were probably booing or shouting 'Up Dev' for all I know but you are moving the goalposts - there were people aplenty watching the 1911 royal visit just as they would for any major dignitary - JFK, the Pope, Bill Clinton etc.
Some of us them even had bunting around on their houses for the 1904 visit of Edward VII. Below is a picture of my grandfather's house in Foxrock (!) at that time - sorry for reinforcing your worst prejudices about black Prods.
0 -
Judgement Day wrote: »Gurramok - Some of them were probably booing or shouting 'Up Dev' for all I know but you are moving the goalposts - there were people aplenty watching the 1911 royal visit just as they would for any major dignitary - JFK, the Pope, Bill Clinton etc.
Some of us them even had bunting around on their houses for the 1904 visit of Edward VII. Below is a picture of my grandfather's house in Foxrock (!) at that time - sorry for reinforcing your worst prejudices about black Prods.
I'm certain that I can see a reflection in one of the windows, of a
peasant being flogged behind the hedge. I could be mistaken though.:eek:0 -
LOL
Are there any news reports from National newspapers or say the London Times describing any demonstrations and what about elected politicl leaders. Did the Leaders of the Home Rule Party meet the King or did the Lord Mayor have a soiree.
Any mention in the Press of activities in the Vice Regal Lodge.
What does the Kings public engagements read like in published sources. Any visits to the Theatre??
Its a nice thought that there were mass demonstrations but if there were I havent read about them before.0 -
Judgement Day wrote: »Gurramok - Some of them were probably booing or shouting 'Up Dev' for all I know but you are moving the goalposts - there were people aplenty watching the 1911 royal visit just as they would for any major dignitary - JFK, the Pope, Bill Clinton etc.
Some of us them even had bunting around on their houses for the 1904 visit of Edward VII. Below is a picture of my grandfather's house in Foxrock (!) at that time - sorry for reinforcing your worst prejudices about black Prods.
Exactly, we'd all turn up at a visit out of seeing someone who is famous. I'd guess the non-Unionist types in the crowd would have a silent stare at the parade out of curiosity and fear rather than the picture been portrayed as them been enthusiastic supporters of the King as raising a protest would be severely punished.
You see, I'm disputing the assertion that this crowd were 'well-wishers'.0 -
Advertisement
-
LOL
Are there any news reports from National newspapers or say the London Times describing any demonstrations and what about elected politicl leaders. ??
Its a nice thought that there were mass demonstrations but if there were I havent read about them before.
It's mentioned in the references that I gave - Maud Gonne - and also it is fairly common in any biography of Countess Markievicz to state that she was first arrested during her participation of the 1911 Sinn Fein/IRB protests against the Royal visit.
Remember the rumours about George V's bigamy - which resulted in a trail against a journalist for libel in 1911 - were making newspapers very reluctant to publish anything negative about him.0 -
-
-
-
-
-
And what about the viewing figures for the funeral.
There are probably equally high figures for any ridiculously over-hyped tv live event. BB evictions etc. There can be no alignment from viewing figures with anything other than curiosity or boredom in my view.Is it 12% of British that are of Irish extraction so they probably outnumber us but our relatives are our peers and we are influenced by their loyalties.
Not really following this part here -
12% british people outnumber the number of Irish people in Ireland ?
Which loyalties are you referring to ?
And who are 'our relatives and peers' that you mention ?
Sorry if this is a bit slow - out of coffee at the moment 0 -
There are probably equally high figures for any ridiculously over-hyped tv live event. BB evictions etc. There can be no alignment from viewing figures with anything other than curiosity or boredom in my view.
The Royal Family is an institution and there is the "awe" factor of Royalty. It may not be for you. A bit of escapism for fans like the football or a day at the races.
As a student I used to hitchhike a lot and once got a ride in one of the Duke of Devonshires limos. I could live like that
Ah those were the days. I could have married moneyNot really following this part here -
12% british people outnumber the number of Irish people in Ireland ?
Which loyalties are you referring to ?
And who are 'our relatives and peers' that you mention ?
Sorry if this is a bit slow - out of coffee at the moment
Ok I have a sister in law and nephew who are british & first cousin. Naturally, they are proud of their country and I can accomodate that.
I mean pre-independence though the Irish Job was a political appointment the role was purely ceremonial/royalty in Ireland which surprised many of the office holders.0 -
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
What has this got to do with the Brontes???
And as for scandals, Parnell was in the thickest of them all but would you equally label him? I hope not. Your remark sounds selective and sexist to me.
Its not intended to be but the Brontes were near contemporaries and they exibited a bit of snobbishness that was normal for the time.I just havent gotten around to Parnell yet .
As you know Constance Markevicz was very close to her family and remained so. Here is a reference to the circumstances surrounding her marriage and you can judge for yourself what the views of her peer group might have been.
By Joe McGowan
WGT Connacht Correspondent
[SIZE=-1]Constance (left) and her sister Eva, 1898.[/SIZE][SIZE=+3]P[/SIZE]earse, O'Connell, Connolly, Collins: all names that are well known to the student of Irish history. Amidst these familiar names the foreign sounding Markievicz strikes a discordant note. Markievicz? An Irish patriot? How could that be?
Constance Georgina Gore-Booth was born in London on February 4, 1868, to Sir Henry Gore Booth, 5th Baronet, and his wife Georgina, an Anglo-Irish landlord family with properties at Lissadell, County Sligo. As a child and young woman, although high spirited and restless, she led the leisurely lifestyle of her class.
[SIZE=-1]TAKE A SECOND TO CLICK ANY GOOGLE BELOW AND HELP SUPPORT WGT, WITH NO COST TO YOU[/SIZE]From 1898 to 1900, Constance's life was centered in Paris, where she attended art school. Thus began the Polish connection. It was there that this aristocratic lady met Kazimierz Dunin Markievicz.
They fell in love, and in 1900, despite religious differences, married. Con was in her 32nd year, her husband six years her junior. It was Kazimierz's second marriage, having been previously wedded to a Polish girl, Jadwiga Splawa-Neyman. They had two sons but, tragically, in 1899, Jadwiga and their younger son, Ryszard, died.
Con was Anglican and her intended husband a Polish Catholic. He was a subject of the Russian Empire, the official religion of which was Eastern Orthodoxy. In the summer of 1900, despite concerns voiced by the Gore-Booths about religion and the venue for the ceremony, Constance received 'a most gracious' letter of blessing from Kazimierz's mother.
[SIZE=-1]MORE ABOUT
'THE COUNTESS'[/SIZE]
The Life of Constance Markievicz
Sligo Honors Native Daughter
The matter of the venue being of great concern to Josslyn Gore-Booth, Con's brother, he expended considerable effort in securing opinions from British and Russian lawyers. It was finally agreed to solemnize the marriage in a registry office, at the Russian Legation in London, as well as at a later Church of England ceremony on September 29, 1900, in London's Marylebone Church.
[SIZE=-1]Kazimierz Dunin Markievicz in Russian uniform, 1914.[/SIZE]Constance resisted any advice to defer to her husband's religion by having a Roman Catholic Church wedding. She could not contemplate the offspring of the union becoming 'Popish babies,' she declared. Given her family upbringing and background, this response is not surprising. In later years, on her release from Aylesbury Jail in 1917, she embraced the Catholic religion 'enthusiastically and wholeheartedly.' The Marriage Settlement stated that '... all children of the marriage shall be educated and brought up in such religious faith as the said Constance Georgina Gore-Booth shall from time to time determine.'
Was Count Kazimierz Dunin Markievicz really a Count? Was Constance Markievicz therefore a Countess? Does it really matter? The subject was debated in an exchange of letters in The Irish Times recently. Since the question is of interest to some and of concern to others, we will touch on it briefly here.
In a letter to her brother Josslyn, Constance expresses the belief that she is a poor match for Kazimierz, him being "a hereditary nobleman." This, she explains, means that he is the "son of a Count whose family has been on a certain property for seven generations."
This matter was of great importance to the Gore-Booths, who wanted to know whether the Markievicz family was their aristocratic equal. Family honour was at stake so the matter was investigated.
Sir Charles Scott, Her Majesty's Ambassador to St. Petersburg was directed to seek a ruling from the Russian foreign minister. He then instructed a member of the Okhrana (later the KGB) to spy on Count Kazimierz in Paris. This man, a Mr. Rachkovsky, duly reported that Kazimierz, "takes the title of Count Dunin Markievicz without right in that Poland has never had a Count of that name. ... He may have been able to buy this title at the Vatican, or to obtain it in Austria."
[SIZE=-1]Constance and Casimir on the day of their church wedding in London, September 29, 1900.[/SIZE]Continuing his report he gives an account of the characteristics of Con's intended husband: "He is known as somewhat original and as a bon vivant, liking the noisy life… Since the death of his wife he indulges in all pleasures, which take up every instant of his life. Apart from this stormy life, there is nothing with which to reproach him. One would say that, if he is not serious at present, it is because of his youth and that reason will dominate him through age or another happy marriage."
The news must have concerned Josslyn Gore-Booth, who initiated the inquiry. This bohemian with a doubtful lifestyle was not going to enrich the family with another title, after all. What would the neighbors say? It seemed that the most that Kasimierz could legitimately lay claim to was to be a member of the "szlachta" which translates as "gentry" or "nobility". The title was usually associated with landed property.
Her views changed over the years but at the time of her marriage she was concerned about status as were her peer group.
Her letter to her brother Josslyn indicates that Dubliners enjoyed the Royal visit too much for her liking.Given Constance's disregard for titles and snobbery, such concerns were of little interest to her. Although often referred to as "the Countess" or "Countess Markievicz," the term she most preferred was "Madame," a name bestowed on her by the deprived and destitute of Dublin, whom she served so well.
After King George's visit to Ireland in 1911, Con's disdain for title-seekers is evident in a letter to Josslyn: "Everything here has subsided again, & Dublin is its usual peaceful self & we are all praying that King George will not come again for many a long day. Even if I were not a nationalist I should object to King's visits for they but bring out the worst qualities in people: all sorts of snobbery is developed in people, which leads to such trickery, such meanness, such lies and misrepresentation. Everyone using every means to get himself noticed; no trick is too low for a man if he sees a title the other side…"
When I posted the comment I meant it to mean that is how her "peer group" in her families social circle would have considered her. Thats not a criticism but how things were back then.
Here is the link
http://www.thewildgeese.com/pages/markpol.html0 -
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
Thats not what I heard
I always love the reinternment story -with the mistress looking for the grave etc -pure comedy.
Yeats changed over the years - and regretted his chaste youth. Maud got the ethereal period. No wonder she ran for John McBride.
A good story - Oliver St John Gogarty was once asked if he believed in faeries - a common topic then - and he replied "no, dinner with Yeats is faery enough for me".0 -
I'd doubt it, we don't go off cenotaph hugging every Rememberance SundayFratton Fred wrote: »Don't worry, after 700 years of rape and oppression the locals had their loyalty well and truly beaten into them.:D
0 -
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement