Taxing the religous

djsomers

Do you think it is time for the religous orders, agencies and organisations to start paying taxes? I understand that alot of these come under non-taxable charities, but maybe where this is the case a token tax of about, say 1% could be given and fed back (possibly). I believe that this would greatly help the governments' tax take and also help in finding out where vasts sums of money goes, etc, etc. Would there be a problem socially with this? I think it is about time that these institutions that can well afford it, give back something in this way.

Byron85

djsomers wrote: »

Do you think it is time for the religous orders, agencies and organisations to start paying taxes? I understand that alot of these come under non-taxable charities, but maybe where this is the case a token tax of about, say 1% could be given and fed back (possibly). I believe that this would greatly help the governments' tax take and also help in finding out where vasts sums of money goes, etc, etc. Would there be a problem socially with this? I think it is about time that these institutions that can well afford it, give back something in this way.

Tax the church(es) for sure but leave the charities that actually do some good in the real world, Amnesty International, Enable Ireland etc, alone.

djsomers

Why not tax them all, just so the government can take a look in the books to see that all is above board and if so and they are tax compliant they get the tax back or some similar scheme?

Manach

Yes, lets give more money to the government, as they've done such an excellent job with the resources they have at present.

djsomers

Manach wrote: »

Yes, lets give more money to the government, as they've done such an excellent job with the resources they have at present.

Eh, the problem is they do not have enough resources at present. Nice way to answer a topic with a completely irrelevant sound bite, you in politics yourself?

ChocolateSauce

Yes. Every single cent of money that religious orders take in which isn't spent on charity (and by charity I mean helping the poor, not handing out bibles) should be taxed at a capital gains rate, like the rest of us.

Blackhorse Slim

Manach wrote: »

Yes, lets give more money to the government, as they've done such an excellent job with the resources they have at present.

Better the government has it than the vatican

ei.sdraob

Manach wrote: »

Yes, lets give more money to the government, as they've done such an excellent job with the resources they have at present.

true that ^

but dont forget the government is paying well over a billion for the abuses perpetrated by the church, since apparently the church is poor (lets ignore all the land, gold and marble :P)

so the people who got physically molested by the church have now to pay taxes that will go back to compensate them, perverse or what

least this crowd can do is pay for their mess, instead of dumping the problem on society and taxpayers

Winty

Yes Yes Yes

A religion is just a company offering a service, they should also charge VAT on the little candles and mass cards

djsomers

Not to mention that the church is holding onto it's vast amount of land with every effort, and selling it's redundant premises. In the past ten years in Wexford alone, the church has made countless millions on selling disused convents and derelict buildings.

djsomers

ei.sdraob wrote: »

true that ^

but dont forget the government is paying well over a billion for the abuses perpetrated by the church, since apparently the church is poor (lets ignore all the land, gold and marble :P)

so the people who got physically molested by the church have now to pay taxes that will go back to compensate them, perverse or what

least this crowd can do is pay for their mess, instead of dumping the problem on society and taxpayers

The church is also making money from these claims of abuse through insurance. Non-taxable too of course.

Nijmegen

The church is just another special interest group - sadly a well established and organized one, making it easier for them to maintain the status quo and even get the taxpayer to foot bills for them.

Flipside is that there are many charitable arms, an the trick is in seperating these. But a good accountant from KPMG or Grant Thornton would find a way around as much of it as possible.

djsomers

Nijmegen wrote: »

But a good accountant from KPMG or Grant Thornton would find a way around as much of it as possible.

I would be thinking that the Church would probably opperate it's business outside of Ireland's tax jurisdiction, should tax be implemented. Yes I am a cynic when it comes to church and money.

Sleepy

I'd imagine all the business would be based out of Vatican City in this scenario but I'd fully support a move to tax all religions on their incomes, collect VAT on the products and services they sell, capital gains on disposal of assets and seize religious property to foot the bill for the treatment and compensation of victims of their crimes whilst ensuring the guilty see the inside of a prison cell.

prinz

I already pay taxes. If I choose to give money to say Trócaire should it be taxed? :rolleyes:

djsomers

prinz wrote: »

I already pay taxes. If I choose to give money to say Trócaire should it be taxed? :rolleyes:

Why not? It would not be you directly being taxed but Trócaire, of course I would not see this as being kept by the government but fed back to the charity all in the work of transparency. I guess you would like to know where your donations are going and how much is being actually used for the purpose you donated.

prinz

djsomers wrote: »

Why not? It would not be you directly being taxed but Trócaire, of course I would not see this as being kept by the government but fed back to the charity all in the work of transparency. I guess you would like to know where your donations are going and how much is being actually used for the purpose you donated.

So I give to the charity, the charity hands over to the government, the government hands back over to the charity .. and this is supposed to be more transparent? If I would like to know where donations are going I contact the charities themselves.

If the money collected was all being reinvested back into the charities then the net effect on the government's tax take is zero? So what's the point again?

djsomers

If the government is taking taxes it has the ability to investigate and report on expenditure and income of the charities. If legit then fine, why should we keep charitable money that is going to a deserved home.

prinz

djsomers wrote: »

If the government is taking taxes it has the ability to investigate and report on expenditure and income of the charities. If legit then fine, why should we keep charitable money that is going to a deserved home.

So why would this apply to religious charities and not other charities?

djsomers

prinz wrote: »

So why would this apply to religious charities and not other charities?

Not saying it shouldn't. And why not let it apply to all charitable organisations? I just posed the question of applying tax to the Religous, who just so happen to have linked charitable groups.

prinz

djsomers wrote: »

Not saying it shouldn't. And why not let it apply to all charitable organisations? I just posed the question of applying tax to the Religous, who just so happen to have linked charitable groups.

Do you realise parishes prepare financial accounts that can and should be available on request yeah? If you're worried about where my money goes if I choose to put it in a collection basket you can go and find out how it is used.

Kivaro

Yes, Yes, Yes.
Tax them just like any other business, because that's what they are.

And if they can prove that they are involved in charitable work, they can write it off just like the rest of us.

Religious organisations should not get special treatment in the Tax Code.

But what are the odds of that happening?
Slim to none, I would say.

So the con job continues ...............

djsomers

prinz wrote: »

Do you realise parishes prepare financial accounts that can and should be available on request yeah? If you're worried about where my money goes if I choose to put it in a collection basket you can go and find out how it is used.

Yes and I am not questioning their validity at all. I am not attacking the religous, but there is a lot more to church income than collection plates and good will donations.

Run_to_da_hills

In the United States Churches come under the title of "charities" when it comes to taxation and are tax free.

One of the clauses of this taxation class is that the church keeps out of politics.

djsomers

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

In the United States Churches come under the title of "charities" when it comes to taxation and are tax free.

One of the clauses of this taxation class is that the church keeps out of politics.

The church stay out of politics, yeah right!!

Run_to_da_hills

djsomers wrote: »

The church stay out of politics, yeah right!!

This is an example of a Baptist church that dosn't stay out of politics.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20Government/evils_in_government.htm

djsomers

Hey you can find millions of examples, what's the point?

prinz

djsomers wrote: »

Yes and I am not questioning their validity at all. I am not attacking the religous, but there is a lot more to church income than collection plates and good will donations.

Odd that you would single them out then, no? What other income would you like to know about?

djsomers

prinz wrote: »

Odd that you would single them out then, no? What other income would you like to know about?

All income hopefully. Guess you have your head somewhere dark for the passed 20 years if you think that, for one, the Roman Catholic Church has not been into some fishy money. But I am only using this per example.

prinz

djsomers wrote: »

All income hopefully. Guess you have your head somewhere dark for the passed 20 years if you think that, for one, the Roman Catholic Church has not been into some fishy money. But I am only using this per example.

Care to be more specific?

Chuchoter

I think churches and NGOs should have to publish very detailed accounts, and if these accounts are not up to scratch should close. I am somewhat against NGOs in a lot of cases, I question their effectiveness (ie in Haiti there has been 10,000 NGOs operating there even before the earthquake yet Haiti is poorer than it was 50 years ago).