Freeview -- Dublin City Center

Mark27

Hi, we have recently been granted access to our apartment roof, meaning that we are now able to put up our own dish, ariel etc. The building is on Kings Inns St, which is just off Parnell St beside the cinema.

When im on the roof i can see all the way down to Dublin port and beyond. Would it be possible to purchase some sort of ariel that would enable me to receive the UK freeview signal from Wales or England? Or am i just too far away? Im not interested in FreeSat just Freeview channels. Thanks

KeRbDoG

Mark27 wrote: »

Hi, we have recently been granted access to our apartment roof, meaning that we are now able to put up our own dish, ariel etc. The building is on Kings Inns St, which is just off Parnell St beside the cinema.

When im on the roof i can see all the way down to Dublin port and beyond. Would it be possible to purchase some sort of ariel that would enable me to receive the UK freeview signal from Wales or England? Or am i just too far away? Thanks

You could easily install a satellite dish and point it towards Astra 2D and pickup all channels listed for the BBC Freesat service. Gets yea nearly all of the UK Freeview stations, just not Fiver and a few others.

Mark27

Yea but you get a load of crap channels aswell. I have a Sony HDD recorder so the freeview should work well with it im hoping

Mr McBoatface

Mark27 wrote: »

Yea but you get a load of crap channels aswell. I have a Sony HDD recorder so the freeview should work well with it im hoping

You don't get a "load of crap channels" with freesat, I think your confusing it with Free To Air Sat which has no 7 day epg. Freesat is a brand with a limited number of crap channels , 7 day EPG, and automatic updates so you never need to retune, their boxes can also provide recording facilities.

A big advantage for a freesat installation in your scenario is that you can use the same shared dish and cables for Sky and Freesat, so your neighbour could have Sky TV while you use freesat all running from the same shared dish - https://www.skyinyourapartment.ie/default.aspx. You could split the cost of installation with your neighbours who wanted access to Sky

Freesat and Freeview provide very similar channel line-up http://www.freesat.co.uk/

Mark27

Mark27 wrote: »

Hi, we have recently been granted access to our apartment roof, meaning that we are now able to put up our own dish, ariel etc. The building is on Kings Inns St, which is just off Parnell St beside the cinema.

When im on the roof i can see all the way down to Dublin port and beyond. Would it be possible to purchase some sort of ariel that would enable me to receive the UK freeview signal from Wales or England? Or am i just too far away? Im not interested in FreeSat just Freeview channels. Thanks

If you have a view to the sea,it depends in what direction.
Arfon should be possible if your view is to the south east.
Does Howth obstruct that view? if so you are snookered.

If you have a full view northeast to southeast,then you should at least get kilkeel analogue from NI [it won't have freeview untill late 2012 but that freeview will be receivable to anyone who can get the analogue].
Llandonna and the isle of man are two other possibilities as well as caldbeck.

How high is this roof?
Can you post a pic of what you see to the NE,to the East and to the south East for us.
That would help a lot in us helping you.

Mark27

I cant get up on the roof to take a picture at the moment because nobody can get their hands on a ladder and we dont want to buy one.

When i was up there my main line of vision seemed to be from City Hall out over the docklands North and Southside. I dont think Howth effects me at all because im in the City Center. Off Parnell St.

I am standing on the roof of a 6 apartment story building and a commerical unit on the ground floor so guessing i would be up at least 100 foot.

I was going to order this ariel today. Do you think its the right one?

http://www.aerialshack.com/blake-dmx10b-very-high-gain-group-aerial-p-965.html

The more elements the better and bear in mind you will need a masthead amp and powersupply unit aswell.
You won't be in business with just the aerial.
The group B won't really do Llandonna for you but it would do arfon and kilkeel and the isle of man.

I think you would be better off with a wide band.
A wideband is not the best for Divis when it comes on but if you are 100ft up,I'd be trying Divis when it switches as it will be mega powerful and should reach Dublin no bother.
I'd also be trying Brougher at that height at the end of 2012.

For now I'd get this wide band aerial and pair it with a wideband masthead amp with a powersupply unit.

http://www.aerialshack.com/iskra-dtm91f-super-high-gain-freeview-aerial-p-1379.html

However I've never heard of the make so if you can source comparable by antiference,Blake,Fringe or other good makes let us know,I don't have the time at the moment,if I do in the next day or so I'll post

An aerial like that will give you the opportunity to try Llandonna,Blaenplwyf and caldbeck which are all full freeview service transmitters.
Arfon should also work though you will need to mount the aerial differently for it-vertical polarity ie with the elements sitting up as opposed to pointing sidewat [ie truning the aerial on its side].

A poster here gtg60 based in Wicklow might be able [and should be eager!!] to help you with this,he has a kick ass digital meter which is essential as it will allow you to turn your aerial to the peak of signal for each of the transmitters and measure which one is strongest.

I'd love to join ye for that test given the location ( /geek mode )

Galway

Mark27 wrote: »

I cant get up on the roof to take a picture at the moment because nobody can get their hands on a ladder and we dont want to buy one.

When i was up there my main line of vision seemed to be from City Hall out over the docklands North and Southside. I dont think Howth effects me at all because im in the City Center. Off Parnell St.

I am standing on the roof of a 6 apartment story building and a commerical unit on the ground floor so guessing i would be up at least 100 foot.

I was going to order this ariel today. Do you think its the right one?

http://www.aerialshack.com/blake-dmx10b-very-high-gain-group-aerial-p-965.html

Probably too small, you need something with as many mutiple elements as is manufactured: www.blake-uk.com/largeimage/jbx21wb with a good high gain masthead amp - 20-235 db variable gain type.

Mark27

Great information thanks black Briar and thanks Galway. Am ordering some equipment in the next few minutes so will report back on any success!

Mark27

Im not too familar with the amp equipment, is this amp good enough to order? Or can anybody recommend one?

https://www.blake-uk.com/page/amplifiers_distribution/proception_proamp310.

stam

I got mine from the north triax 100 they were great to deal with great price vanjak .com hope this helps

winston_1

Mark27 wrote: »

Im not too familar with the amp equipment, is this amp good enough to order? Or can anybody recommend one?

https://www.blake-uk.com/page/amplifiers_distribution/proception_proamp310.

NO. That is a distribution amplifier not a masthead amplifier.

A distribution amp is for splitting a strong signal to several sets. A masthead amp is for amplifying a week signal. Two different things altogether.

From a quick look at that site

https://www.blake-uk.com/page/amplifiers_masthead/proce_proampscreened -mast head-the high gain one.

And one of these to power the masthead {located near tv,plugged in with cable from roof aerial in the aerial in slot and aerial cable to the tv in the aerial out slot}

https://www.blake-uk.com/page/amplifiers_distribution/proception_propsu

You can use the distribution amplifier you linked to distribute the signal to other tv's if you want.
Just again put the aerial out cable into the aerial in slot of the distribution amplifier and the aerial out slots can then feed as many tv's or rooms as it has slots.
Thats what a distribution amplifier is for.

Mark27

Cant seem to find a masthead amp that goes above 200db, i only seem to be able to find one that goes to about 25db. Does anyone have a link to one as am eager to buyy and get started?

The gain on the one you mentioned Black briar only has a gain up to 27db

FREETV

Mark27 wrote: »

Cant seem to find a masthead amp that goes above 200db, i only seem to be able to find one that goes to about 25db. Does anyone have a link to one as am eager to buyy and get started?

The gain on the one you mentioned Black briar only has a gain up to 27db

The FTE Maximal M1000 has a gain of 40dB, very low noise 0.8db and the minimum insertion loss. The site is tvaerials.com. It is a wideband masthead amp. I have one and it is great. Excellent performer. It has three gain settings of 26, 33, 40db The price has gone up from 26.99 to 31.99 since I bought it though. You will also need a Vision power supply unit for it as it is the one recommended and has a lower insertion loss and so you can get the most decibels in amplification for your set up when compared to the Fte psus.

Mark27

Mark27 wrote: »

Cant seem to find a masthead amp that goes above 200db, i only seem to be able to find one that goes to about 25db. Does anyone have a link to one as am eager to buy and get started?

The gain on the one you mentioned Black briar only has a gain up to 27db

Depends on the signal strength and whether you will be using a distribution amp aswell.
You can overload aswell.
We can get around 50db here standard raw from presely.Going above 70db would cause problems.

Best advice is to go for what freetv suggests but also get an attenuator in case you have to turn down the signal.
Too much amplification if not needed worsens reception big time.

Mark27

Thanks Folks, will be back on for advice once my equipment arrives!

FREETV

Mark27 wrote: »

Thanks Folks, will be back on for advice once my equipment arrives!

HI again, yes as Black Briar mentioned, even a fairly cheap variable attenuator with a 0-20db setting incase of too much power overload turned by a small screwdriver a millimetre at a time until you get the highest signal quality showing from the signal meter on a digital set top box or IDTV with a level 4 HD digital MPEG4 tuner will suffice for Saorview. The spec isn't supposed to change. That will also be backwards compatible for the UK Freeview MPEG2 broadcasts. One box which has both hdmi and scart connections and is MHEG5 compatible will do the job. Hope you get on well and get the reception of the signals you require. Oh, I almost forgot to ask you whether you have bought your cable/satellite cable yet? Webro WF100 is a good CAI benchmarked satellite cable for terrestrial tv use also as it is double shielded with a foam filling, copper foil and copper braiding. Triax TX100 is good also even Philex PF 100 would do. It is more difficult to source f connectors to fit WF125 or equivalent brands, I only found one online shop that stocked them.The cable is thicker, has a lower signal loss at different frequencies than the cables ending in 100 but is more difficult to bend/flex and is very expensive per metre. You might be able to get away with using cheap RG6 grade sat cable at the very least which uses aluminium braiding and foil, normally plastic around the copper wire. It has higher signal losses over longer distances is more prone to moisture intake, interference and won't last anywhere near as long outdoors. Anything over 25 metres of RG6 for a setup isn't recommended nor is it a benchmarked approved cable and it may only last a couple of years outside before the damp weather gets inside it.

Mark27

Hi Freetv i have ordered the FTE Maximal M1000 which allows 3 differant gains of DB. Would i still need the variable attenuator even with this device?

As for cable i was going to just buy some satellite cable from Argos (bear in mind im a novice when it comes to this equipment) but since its being mentioned i looked at the various types and was going to order this

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Philex-PF100-Foam-Cable-WHITE/dp/B002AFCTIY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1276525764&sr=1-2


Will it be ok?

The attenuator would lower signal in tiny bits untill you get it right.
You might pick one up in somewhere like peats for very little anyhow so no panic.

The amp you are getting - try the highest gain first.
An attenuator is only needed if your signal is very very strong.Lets hope it is!
It would really be a good idea to get some class of a meter even if borrowed.

Worst case scenario with what you are doing is you get kilkeel analogue.
The aerial should pull in irish digital from behind.

Cables fine there

Mark27

Thanks black briar would this do the job for me?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Philex-SLx-27867R-Digital-Strength/dp/B001GXQUNQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1276533771&sr=1-1

I was first going to aim for Llandonna as it seems to be the closest geographically that has full freeview services.

I want to order the ariel, do you think i would be best to go with this one
http://www.blake-uk.com/page/aerial_range/aerial_jbx (JBX21WB)

Or would this one be better
http://www.aerialshack.com/iskra-dtm91f-super-high-gain-freeview-aerial-p-1379.html

I dont spending the few pound extra if it means getting the signal or not getting the signal

My TV is Sony KDL40W5500 which lets me watch the Irish DTT no problem and it mentions in the booklet about having a built in tuner that will pick up the UK freeview once there has been a switchover so i persume i dont need to buy a freeview box in order to watch BBCHD and ITVHD?



Thanks again for all the help

Firstly unfortunately your TV won't do Freeview hd the newer version of it will.
Thats t2 which is backwards compatible [we believe unless RTENL do something to the spec they broadcast on]
It will pick up the standard definition freeview channels.

So you will need a decoder like the new humax t2 pvr for hd.

On the aerials -I'd go for theJBX21WB as it has more elements.

The gain is said to be 4db less but thats not going to affect youmuch given you are adding an amp.I'm dubvious of that claim anyway.

Mark27

Thanks for the tips Black briar

One last thing, the new Sony TV you mentioned, will that pick up the Irish Digital (MPEG4) same as the 40W5500 does?

Mark27

Ok found the telly i think will do both.

Sony KDL40EX503

FREETV

Mark27 wrote: »

Hi Freetv i have ordered the FTE Maximal M1000 which allows 3 differant gains of DB. Would i still need the variable attenuator even with this device?

As for cable i was going to just buy some satellite cable from Argos (bear in mind im a novice when it comes to this equipment) but since its being mentioned i looked at the various types and was going to order this

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Philex-PF100-Foam-Cable-WHITE/dp/B002AFCTIY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1276525764&sr=1-2


Will it be ok?

Yes, that will do the job nicely.

Mark27

Do i plug the signal detector straight into the ariel when i am up on the roof or will i have to put the masthead amp in between the ariel and detector when i am doing the test?

lucernarian

I think that signal detector will be a waste of time. The weakest signal it can detect is at 50dBuV and a signal from Arfon is likely to be much weaker than that. It couldn't be greater than 40 dBuV. Maybe after a masthead amp it would pick up something useful. With steps of 10dB it probably won't be able to pick out whether Blaenplwyf or Arfon or any other transmitter is stronger.

And crucially, it will probably pick up a signal from Three Rock and light up the meter even if it's pointing towards Wales.

FREETV

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I think that signal detector will be a waste of time. The weakest signal it can detect is at 50dBuV and a signal from Arfon is likely to be much weaker than that. It couldn't be greater than 40 dBuV. Maybe after a masthead amp it would pick up something useful. With steps of 10dB it probably won't be able to pick out whether Blaenplwyf or Arfon or any other transmitter is stronger.

And crucially, it will probably pick up a signal from Three Rock and light up the meter even if it's pointing towards Wales.

Hi again, don't buy one of those led indicator signal meters, they are a useless waste of money. Try to use the integrated signal meter of your tv or buy a cheap Sagem Picnic Box from ebay.co.uk and connect it to a small portable tv using an extension reel on the roof of the apartment and you will be able to see both the signal intensity and signal quality readings, channel frequencies and align your aerial.

To_be_confirmed

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I think that signal detector will be a waste of time. The weakest signal it can detect is at 50dBuV and a signal from Arfon is likely to be much weaker than that. It couldn't be greater than 40 dBuV. Maybe after a masthead amp it would pick up something useful. With steps of 10dB it probably won't be able to pick out whether Blaenplwyf or Arfon or any other transmitter is stronger.

And crucially, it will probably pick up a signal from Three Rock and light up the meter even if it's pointing towards Wales.

Arfon at one site I was in at Arklow was showing 39dbu on a signal metre and is working perfectly.
Thats 39db without a masthead amp but the meter that Mylie Redmond was using does have an amp in it iirc ,I'm just not sure what gain.
So talking about over 50db for dtt is incorrect.
I'd agree that your meter should be a decent one that will show strength on the channel you are on and not some vague thing that just lights up for any old signal.

mrdtv2010

Deleted User wrote: »

Arfon at one site I was in at Arklow was showing 39dbu on a signal metre and is working perfectly.
Thats 39db without a masthead amp but the meter that Mylie Redmond was using does have an amp in it iirc ,I'm just not sure what gain.
So talking about over 50db for dtt is incorrect.
I'd agree that your meter should be a decent one that will show strength on the channel you are on and not some vague thing that just lights up for any old signal.

64QAM DVB-T1 and 256QAM DVB-T2 will work at 30dBuV. Remember DTT works at much lower powers than analogue:

You need C/N > 20dB and ideally signal quality = 1 exp -7 or better (this corresponds to 100% quality on the STB/iDTV meters.).

lucernarian

Deleted User wrote: »

Arfon at one site I was in at Arklow was showing 39dbu on a signal metre and is working perfectly.
Thats 39db without a masthead amp but the meter that Mylie Redmond was using does have an amp in it iirc ,I'm just not sure what gain.
So talking about over 50db for dtt is incorrect.
I'd agree that your meter should be a decent one that will show strength on the channel you are on and not some vague thing that just lights up for any old signal.

I think you should read the details on the link, it clearly shows that the minimum signal the meter detects is at 50dBuV. I understand DTT works at a minimum of around 32dBmV or something like that. But my point was that most places will not pick up UK DTT at anything near 50dBuV therefore rendering the meter almost useless for freeview, and not that one needs a signal strength of 50 to get freeview..

FREETV wrote:

Hi again, don't buy one of those led indicator signal meters, they are a useless waste of money. Try to use the integrated signal meter of your tv or buy a cheap Sagem Picnic Box from ebay.co.uk and connect it to a small portable tv using an extension reel on the roof of the apartment and you will be able to see both the signal intensity and signal quality readings, channel frequencies and align your aerial.

Was that reply for me? I won't be buying it anyway and yes the TV's indicator would be a better guide, failing having a proper signal measurer.

mea culpa.
Presely can be up to 70db's down here by the way but often falls below 40.

Ergo a good meter is needed.
Using the receivers meter is awkward as you either have a tv and receiver on the roof or you have to rely on someone shouting or talking on the phone to you.
It's better to have it in front of you while doing it.

Again gtg60 is your man there,he has a very good meter and is but a pm away and all you need I'm sure is a pot of tea and a packet of biscuits to pay him.

Thats nerds for ya

Mark27

Thanks blackbriar i will pm him once my equipment arrives!


To_be_confirmed - I think the advice on not buying the signal meter was meant for me!

Charles Slane

Am I the only one who's dying to find out how all this works out?

In the old days

Charles Slane wrote: »

Am I the only one who's dying to find out how all this works out?

Sadly so am I. Mental note to self: must get out more.

FREETV

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I think you should read the details on the link, it clearly shows that the minimum signal the meter detects is at 50dBuV. I understand DTT works at a minimum of around 32dBmV or something like that. But my point was that most places will not pick up UK DTT at anything near 50dBuV therefore rendering the meter almost useless for freeview, and not that one needs a signal strength of 50 to get fre

Was that reply for me? I won't be buying it anyway and yes the TV's indicator would be a better guide, failing having a proper signal measurer.

Hi, that message was for Mark27. Regards, keep up the good advice.

FREETV

Mark27 wrote: »

Thanks blackbriar i will pm him once my equipment arrives!


To_be_confirmed - I think the advice on not buying the signal meter was meant for me!

Hi, any news for us all here on boards as regards how you got on Mark27 after receiving your equipment? Where you able to receive Freeview signals from Wales? If so let us know please.

STB

FREETV wrote: »

Hi, any news for us all here on boards as regards how you got on Mark27 after receiving your equipment? Where you able to receive Freeview signals from Wales? If so let us know please.

I presume the management company know what you are up to Mark. Highly unusual that anyone would be allowed access to a common area for aerial/sat installation other than a professional and then only for the greater good of everone. Especially on one that is that high. How are you running the cabling in ?

They will all want aerials if it does work which I must admit am curious to find out also.

championc

I'll be amazed if it doesn't work since I can see Llanddona no probs from Loughshinny (half way between Skerries and Rush). I reckon also at about the same height above sea level. The only problem I could see was having all the Welsh variants.

Parnell Street is lower than Dorset St and so I cannot see him getting anything from Divis or Kilkeel. The only way that you could maybe have half a hope would be if you could see the radar (the golf ball shaped thing - I think it's the radar) out at Dublin Airport.

Mark27, you seemed to suggest that you would contemplate changing your TV. If you were, consider getting and FreeviewHD and FreesatHD combo. Although only Panasonic have them currently, I'm sure that many of the other manufacturers will have them next year.


C

Mark27

Hi,

I have received all of my equipment but am having trouble with the actual physical setup of the ariel and i dont have a drill etc.

Does anyone know if there is a company that would come out and do it for me for cheap or better still does anybody know if its possible to get a free standing ariel mast with tripod or 4 legs? I cant seem to find one on the internet.

STB theres about 30 freesat dishes up there already so presume so. Theres a chute going down along the building where the existing Sky Conway cables lead into an amp which then distributes the signal around the building. I am planning on pulling my cable out of that and plugging it into the new cable that is coming down from the Freeview aeriel


Anyone know where i can get the tripod stand

FREETV

Mark27 wrote: »

Hi,

I have received all of my equipment but am having trouble with the actual physical setup of the ariel and i dont have a drill etc.

Does anyone know if there is a company that would come out and do it for me for cheap or better still does anybody know if its possible to get a free standing ariel mast with tripod or 4 legs? I cant seem to find one on the internet.

STB theres about 30 freesat dishes up there already so presume so. Theres a chute going down along the building where the existing Sky Conway cables lead into an amp which then distributes the signal around the building. I am planning on pulling my cable out of that and plugging it into the new cable that is coming down from the Freeview aeriel


Anyone know where i can get the tripod stand

Ebay sell tripod stands for satellite dishes mainly for caravan use when travelling. A local iron works man could put one together for you out of hot dipped galvanised steel if you gave him the specs you require. The caravan tripods will not hold a long tv aerial mast in place or a large uhf aerial which you will need for receiving the LLanddonna transmitter. A guyed krank up mast would also do but they are very expensive new. The roof tripods and roof rowers for antennas are popular in the US, Canada, Japan and Australia such as the ones at glenmartin.com There are more at the find.com. A gable wall tv aerial mast type installation would be ideal if you are allowed to erect it on the wall at the top of the roof. You will probably need a pole of at least ten to fifteen feet in lenght. Twenty feet would be better as the higher your aerial is up at the top of the apartment block roof the better the reception of any distant transmitter signal and the more stable because of the extra gain. You could save up to a couple of hundred euros in labour if you did it yourself. Bear in mind that the wind load up there would be a high strain on any aerial, mast or tripod.

Freetv is right,you don't need a mast.
Just get a tripod made that can be secured to the roof.

Also use individual lengths of cable,as long as you need.
It's a bad idea to be using joiners-you don't want signal loss.

My best advice is to get onto gtg60 who should know how to put the gear and cabling together for you if he has the time.
He's got Blaenplwyf going fairly well in Rathdrum co wicklow recently by the way-north of the Arklow null.

FREETV

Mark27 wrote: »

Hi,

I have received all of my equipment but am having trouble with the actual physical setup of the ariel and i dont have a drill etc.

Does anyone know if there is a company that would come out and do it for me for cheap or better still does anybody know if its possible to get a free standing ariel mast with tripod or 4 legs? I cant seem to find one on the internet.

STB theres about 30 freesat dishes up there already so presume so. Theres a chute going down along the building where the existing Sky Conway cables lead into an amp which then distributes the signal around the building. I am planning on pulling my cable out of that and plugging it into the new cable that is coming down from the Freeview aeriel


Anyone know where i can get the tripod stand

Hi, did you buy your tripod stand or get one customised for your needs? If so did you connect up all of your gear and did you receive any freeview from Wales? Type in ironworks in Dublin on the goldenpages.ie site for someone close to you make you a stand if you have had problems sourcing a suitable one.

p4paddy07

hi mark just wondering if you where able to receive english freeview in dublin city centre as i was also thinking of trying to do this.

Gerry Wicklow

p4paddy07 wrote: »

hi mark just wondering if you where able to receive english freeview in dublin city centre as i was also thinking of trying to do this.

Not without a huge aerial unless you live on top of Liberty hall. FreeSat using a dish and sat box is your best bet for free UK TV.

p4paddy07

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

Not without a huge aerial unless you live on top of Liberty hall. FreeSat using a dish and sat box is your best bet for free UK TV.

thanks for the reply Gerry. Im not quite that high but i am on the top floor of a flat complex.dont really want to have another set top box just thought it would be handy if i could receive freeview through my tv itself and have a few extra channels.

rlogue

It would be a hell of a lot easier to have a Freesat HD integrated TV with a small discreet dish on your balcony if the balcony faces the right direction. Saorview would then come in with a small aerial, perhaps even a simple set top yagi would do the trick.

To go down the Freeview route in central Dublin would require some serious ironmongery and cabling and ultimately would cost imho far more than an integrated TV.

championc

Integrated sets were few and far between and I think now it's possibly only Panasonic who do them on the high end models.

Last year there was the LG LF7700, the Sony W5810 and the Panny G20B (which I have)