DB Review stage 3 - Route 19 being axed

Cookie_Monster

Posted in main thread but though it might have its own for a few reasons.

1) Fairly major route to axe
2) Planned for stage 3, nice to see our TDs already have wind of this and selectly publishing details of it.
3) How long is this review to go on for if stage 3 is only going to be implemented in Jan and only contains 2 routes (from what is said in the letter)

Why are they allowed see all of it well in advance if it is not going to be public information until Novemeber or so?

---

Got an email from Griffith college president today looking for feedback on the 19 being axed.

Dear All,


Dublin Bus is proposing to scrap the 19 bus service which passes right
outside the gates of Griffith College.

If you oppose this proposal, please see attached letter from Catherine Byrne
TD. If you wish, you may email her to register your opposition at
catherine.byrne@oir.ie .


Thank you,


Diarmuid


--
Diarmuid Hegarty
President
Griffith College Dublin

Letter attached.

KC61

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Posted in main thread but though it might have its own for a few reasons.

1) Fairly major route to axe
2) Planned for stage 3, nice to see our TDs already have wind of this and selectly publishing details of it.
3) How long is this review to go on for if stage 3 is only going to be implemented in Jan and only contains 2 routes (from what is said in the letter)

Why are they allowed see all of it well in advance if it is not going to be public information until Novemeber or so?

---

Got an email from Griffith college president today looking for feedback on the 19 being axed.

Letter attached.

Given the complexities of redesigning the network, I would imagine that each phase will deal with three or four corridors. Given there are 13 corridors, that would lead me to believe that there would be four or five phases.

The letter does not say that phase 3 contains only 2 routes - it says that those two routes would be covered by that phase.

The suggestion that was mentioned on this site before was that the 19 and 83 would merge.

Without seeing what other changes are planned in each phase it is impossible to make a judgement - there may well be changes to other routes that will compensate for this.

KD345

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

1) Fairly major route to axe

My understanding is that the 19 and 122 are being removed and replaced by a new extended high frequency 120. Considering the 19 and 122 share the majority of their routing this isn't too surprising. Both these routes often bunch up together then leave a gap of 15/20 minutes on the SCR, so hopefully having one high frequency route would give a more consistent frequency. I'm speculating here, but I'm guessing the 120 will probably serve Rialto before continuing on to Drimnagh.

2) Planned for stage 3, nice to see our TDs already have wind of this and selectly publishing details of it.

It does look like Fine Gael have an agenda here. Catherine Byrne is the third member of the party to attack the changes without fairly explaining the details properly. It's very easy to send out a press release telling your constituents their bus service is being removed. However, it might be better to hold off until more definite information is available for the area concerned. That way you don't worry your constituents unnecessarily. Fergus O'Dowd was critical at the first stages of changes, but stopped short of explaining what part of the actual changes he felt were wrong. Cllr Pat Hand was happy to be quoted in local southside newspapers saying it was "crazy how people in Windy Arbour and Ballinteer would be stranded getting to and from Dundrum". Of course, Windy Arbour has a high speed Luas service to Dundrum and Ballinteer is to gain a new bus service and retain most of it's existing services.

3) How long is this review to go on for if stage 3 is only going to be implemented in Jan and only contains 2 routes (from what is said in the letter)

There is a total of 5 phases to the changes, starting in July.

Phase Two - Ballymun, Finglas and Clontarf.
Phase Three - Tallaght, Templeogue and Malahide
Phase Four - Glasnevin, Drimnagh, Ranelagh and Swords
Phase Five - Merrion Road/Rock Road and Howth Road corridors.


Like stage one, I reckon these individual phases will involve a similar consultation process before being implemented.

the boss of me

I believe the 83 is to run from Charlestown SC to Jamestown Rd and then to Glasnevin via Ballygall. This should serve all the passengers in the area who currently use the 19. Granted some will have a longer walk to a bus stop but not it won't be too much further and the new 83 will be high frequency and more attractive to users.

dazberry

KD345 wrote: »

It does look like Fine Gael have an agenda here. Catherine Byrne is the third member of the party to attack the changes without fairly explaining the details properly. It's very easy to send out a press release telling your constituents their bus service is being removed. However, it might be better to hold off until more definite information is available for the area concerned.

It's local politics, Catherine Byrne is listed as living on Bulfin Rd, the 19 terminus in on Bulfin Rd, I don't think it's necessarily a Fine Gael thing. If the 19 (or an equivalent service) remains after the changes, trust me when I tell you they will all be sending letters around taking credit for it.

D.

snappieT

The letter also mentions the 123, any info on that?
(I assumed there were no plans to remove it since it's the pilot for the GPS system)

KC61

Until we get to phase 3 anything here is pure speculation....phase 1 is still being adjusted so I'd hold off worrying till winter time.

Ham'nd'egger

snappieT wrote: »

The letter also mentions the 123, any info on that?
(I assumed there were no plans to remove it since it's the pilot for the GPS system)

It's to be merged with the 27B if the memory serves me rightly.

KC61

Hamndegger wrote: »

It's to be merged with the 27B if the memory serves me rightly.

I think it was the 79 that was rumoured to be merging with the 27b?

KD345

dazberry wrote: »

It's local politics, Catherine Byrne is listed as living on Bulfin Rd, the 19 terminus in on Bulfin Rd, I don't think it's necessarily a Fine Gael thing. If the 19 (or an equivalent service) remains after the changes, trust me when I tell you they will all be sending letters around taking credit for it.

D.

Very true Daz. What's funny is that the residents of Bulfin Road complained some years back about buses terminating on their road. As a result, the 19 travels down the hill to Emmet Road, Kilmainham, where it waits it's departure time before looping back around to Bulfin Road.

It really is too early to predict exact changes to these routes.

Ham'nd'egger

KC61 wrote: »

I think it was the 79 that was rumoured to be merging with the 27b?

Ouch, your right

stop

KD345 wrote: »

Very true Daz. What's funny is that the residents of Bulfin Road complained some years back about buses terminating on their road. As a result, the 19 travels down the hill to Emmet Road, Kilmainham, where it waits it's departure time before looping back around to Bulfin Road.

It really is too early to predict exact changes to these routes.

IIRC that was as a result of the revving of your namesakes waking up sleepy folk on Bulfin early in the mornings?

Stevek101

snappieT wrote: »

The letter also mentions the 123, any info on that?
(I assumed there were no plans to remove it since it's the pilot for the GPS system)

No change to the 123, except it is to be operated by Clontarf Garage. With the intention of it being converted to a low floor double deck route. The 123 is actually part of Stage 2, so as usual Fine Gael are incorrect...

the boss of me

Got this in the door this morning. A 15 minute frequency on the merged 83/19 .:eek: The 83 already operates at 15 minute intervals so no improvement there.

KC61

the boss of me wrote: »

A 15 minute frequency on the merged 83/19 .:eek: The 83 already operates at 15 minute intervals so no improvement there.

Yes but there is probably spare capacity on both routes (there certainly is on the 83) so it shouldn't be that bad. It would probably be more frequent in the morning and evening peak.

The routing of the 19a means that Wadelai estate still has a bus service.

Again speculating on this now until they get around to that phase really is pointless. At the moment all of the effort is going into phase 1.

paulm17781

Why does 90% of the populous fear change? Whenever there is talk of changing anything, people get on to their TD etc. Why not learn about what the changes mean or see what happens. :mad:

the boss of me

paulm17781 wrote: »

Why does 90% of the populous fear change? Whenever there is talk of changing anything, people get on to their TD etc. Why not learn about what the changes mean or see what happens. :mad:

Because this is being spun as a review to improve efficiency and service,when in fact it looks like more cutbacks. To suggest that the 83 can carry everyone without increasing the frequency is bull.
It's not about fearing change. But there's no point in waiting till it's a fait accompli.

KC61

the boss of me wrote: »

Because this is being spun as a review to improve efficiency and service,when in fact it looks like more cutbacks. To suggest that the 83 can carry everyone without increasing the frequency is bull.
It's not about fearing change. But there's no point in waiting till it's a fait accompli.

To be fair there is a lot of areas where routes follow one another unnecessarily, and where better scheduling meaning buses don't follow directly after one another could deliver an improved service. I mean how often do a 19, 19a and 83 follow one another through Glasnevin? Does that area need two routes where one could do the job? I would think that the frequency quoted is off-peak and that the peak-frequency will be higher. But again as I said above until we get to that phase, anything here is speculation.

I wouldn't say anything is a fait accompli until the consultation phases end so I'd wait until that phase is up for discussion. I'd suspect that the people working on their review have their hands full enough with phase 1 at the moment without worrying about later phases.

In terms of fewer buses it is most definitely the case where improved journey times coming from bus priority measures such as bus lanes, the city centre bus gate, or more direct routings etc. can mean more journeys using less buses.

the boss of me

KC61 wrote: »

To be fair there is a lot of areas where routes follow one another unnecessarily, and where better scheduling meaning buses don't follow directly after one another could deliver an improved service. I mean how often do a 19, 19a and 83 follow one another through Glasnevin? Does that area need two routes where one could do the job?

I actually agree with the changes proposed. Less routes make for a simpler to understand service and neither Wadelai or Ballygall are loosing their service. However the devil is indeed in the detail and we'll have to see the new timetables before we can make a decision.

However if the 19 is scrapped I would hope that the 83 is re-routed through O'Connell St.

KD345

the boss of me wrote: »

However if the 19 is scrapped I would hope that the 83 is re-routed through O'Connell St.

I can't see this happening. There is still the 4/13/19A running through O'Connell Street from the Glasnevin area. It is only a 1 minute walk from Batchelors Walk to O'Connell Street.

the boss of me

KD345 wrote: »

It is only a 1 minute walk from Batchelors Walk to O'Connell Street.

That's true enough, the problem is getting out of town. It's a long walk from O'Connell St/ Henry St to either Wood Quay or Broadstone. O'Connell St is the busiest stop on route 19 to Glasnevin/Finglas. It's not on to cancel a route and not provide an alternative.

KC61

the boss of me wrote: »

That's true enough, the problem is getting out of town. It's a long walk from O'Connell St/ Henry St to either Wood Quay or Broadstone. O'Connell St is the busiest stop on route 19 to Glasnevin/Finglas. It's not on to cancel a route and not provide an alternative.

The 83 will still serve Westmoreland Street - only 5 minutes away.

dazberry

So from the Inchicore side is there anything going to replace/merge/straighten this - is relation to a route down the SCR?

D.

KC61

dazberry wrote: »

So from the Inchicore side is there anything going to replace/merge/straighten this - is relation to a route down the SCR?

D.

We don't know yet - but based on other areas there ought to be some route realignments to compensate for this.