ATH Knockout tournament final: Waltersobchek vs Cactus Col

Bounty Hunter

So we had a quality opener with Voltwad seing off Volt_2007 to progress on to face Flahavaj in the quaterfinal and the really tight Degag vs Campo match which saw Campo progress to another QF, This was followed by argueably the tie of the round when Waltersobcheck booked his place in the next round at Danger Dave's expense, then we found out the final first round winner as Dare 2 Defy took on Dieselqueen, with DQ coming out on top.

The first quaterfinal saw the clash of the co-champs but didnt quite live up to its potential but saw Cactus Col progress to the Semi-final Where it was later determined he would be joined by Voltwad as he overcame Flahavaj. At last the final Semi final spot went to Waltersobchek after his QF with Campo.

Then it was time for Semi-finals and first up was Cactus Col vs Voltwad in the tightest match yet which was eventually won by 1 vote by Cactus Col before Walter sealed his place as his apponent in the final as Diselqueen withdrew at the semi final stage.

So here it is the PW Around The Horn (ATH) Knockout tournament Final: Cactus Col vs Walter sobchek

Simplified version of the rules:

I will post a topic and you have to post your response including why you made that choice within a given time limit (before the next match is scheduled to begin), take care while making your responses however as the other contestant can counter your arguement i.e pointing out possible flaws in what youve said.

*you can only counter an arguement three (for the semi) times so make sure your point is worth making. If someone's defense of their arguement isnt good it will count against them.

*You can use the same answer as your opponent if you wish i.e you agree with their choice however its hard to win a debate when your making the same points someone has already made

see the first few match ups or OP of the main thread for further details if any are needed

Q. Previously it was asked who the most underutilised member of the roster was and how you would use them if given the opportunity. Well this time you are given carte blanche over the WWE & TNA rosters as your asked to pick anybody on either roster you want. How would you push them if you had total control over the matter? to what height would you push them and why would you pick to push them to such a height over any of the other numerous options available to you considering you can only choose one roster member?

good luck

waltersobchak

Q. Previously it was asked who the most underutilised member of the roster was and how you would use them if given the opportunity. Well this time you are given carte blanche over the WWE & TNA rosters as your asked to pick anybody on either roster you want. How would you push them if you had total control over the matter? to what height would you push them and why would you pick to push them to such a height over any of the other numerous options available to you considering you can only choose one roster member?

For me this question gives the opportunity to explore many opinions. But ultimately one name stands out to me.. Bryan Danielson.. Danielson for me is currently involved in the most exciting angle WWE has done in years, and if given the opportunity i would book him even stronger..

Firstly WWE is currently going through the process of building towards a youth movement. And beginning to push younger guys as HHH, Undertaker, Kane and Batista's best years are clearly behind them. So if I was given total carte blanche, i would build a whole division on either Raw or Smackdown, around Danielson,Kofi Kingston,Evan Bourne, Tyson Kidd, Kaval. Justin Gabriel and John Morrison,an exciting fast paced Division that’s a cross between the X-Division and an Intercontinental/US Title mid card. In 2000 WWF built an extremely exciting technical division around Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit and Chris Jericho, my division would elevate Danielson and the other guys in a similar manner, where the matches rather than storylines would speak for themselves and give not only Bryan Danielson, but everyone else the opportunity to get over, I'm of the opinion that the basis of all great wrestling shows, PPV's etc should be a balance of good storylines and great wrestling, and this division would give WWE a no brainer situation for great wrestling matches.

So how would i push him? Firstly i would have him show up on Smackdown, and cut a promo saying that "He has wrestled all over the world, and won titles all over the planet, he has gotten off to the wrong foot in WWE, but HE still hasn’t lost a match, HE is still undefeated.. HE is Bryan Danielson" That would be the first step for him in dropping the Daniel Bryan moniker, and losing the shackles of those NXT defeat's in the eyes of the fans.. Obviously it wont completely lose everyone's opinion of him and all the loses, but it would be a good first step, and would allow Danielson to get some good momentum. From there i would just have him kick people's head's in, and win match after match, and go on a nice little winning streak..

The obvious long term feud for Danielson for me would be against CM Punk on Smackdown, this to me makes total sense, and would be tremendous for both men, the Dichotomy between a heel Punk and face Danielson is an exciting one to me...

For me picking Danielson over Sheamus, MacIntyre, Kane, Orton, Cena, Kofi Kingston, Etc etc is a logical one as all these superstars and others have been pushed by WWE in the past, whilst unlike Bryan Danielson who’s basically a total open book, for a push, storylines and booking, Also i can see Danielson’s vegan lifestyle being a catalyst for a large push as the opportunity(and especially for the pro PG era of WWE) and the potential good press from a WWE superstar with PETA being beneficial to all involved..

Cactus Colm

Q. Previously it was asked who the most underutilised member of the roster was and how you would use them if given the opportunity.
Well this time you are given carte blanche over the WWE & TNA rosters as your asked to pick anybody on either roster you want.
How would you push them if you had total control over the matter?
to what height would you push them and why would you pick to push them to such a height over any of the other numerous options available
to you considering you can only choose one roster member?



For the first time in a very long time TNA has a main event scene that has star power, and can provide top notch goods in the ring. However, with both RVD's and Jeff Hardy's history of Wellness violations, it would be dangerous to consider them long term Main Eventers. Kurt Angle's personal and health problems have been well publicised, and it would be best not to depend on him too much for too long. The promotions only true TNA built main event player is AJ Styles, a very skilled wrestler, solid hands, but hardly an inspirational champion.

Now is the time for TNA to really push someone new into the main event scene, to provide the scene with a reliable performer, with someone who can connect with current fans, while having the ability to attract new ones and I would say the man to push is Desmond Wolfe.

Wolfe (or Nigel McGuinness as he was previously known) is a former ROH World Champion, and ROH pure champion, he came to TNA unknown to most fans, but with a fantastic independant pedigree. Immediately he was pushed into the main event in a feud against Kurt Angle, and held his end up of the feud very well, making for some very exciting matches. But with the turmoil that has plaqued TNA since Hogan's reign began, and the influx of new talent Wolfe's push has softened quite a bit. Despite this Wolfe has remained over with the fans, so much so that when the promotion introduced a new contender ranking system wolf was voted to the top by the fans, over more famous wrestlers such as Angle, Hardy, and Sting. This goes to prove how Wolfe, in a very short amount of time, has been able to make a lasting connection to the fans.

Wolfe is pretty much the complete package, able to not just work the crowd, but to provide them with an emotional reaction, and also put on fantastic matches.

There are others on the TNA roster who are good bets, MR Anderson is great on the mic, and decent in the ring, but a bit injury prone. Not quite as skilled in the ring as Wolfe though. Pope D'Angelo Deniro, is also a great prospect, and in the long term I would envision both him and Wolfe rising to the top together and feuding over the title i the future. Matt Morgan too is really started to find his place, probably one of the more exciting big men in the business at the moment.

TnA has a number of wrestlers loaded with potential, and i can see a number of them making it into the main event, but Wolfe right now is the most complete wrestler since Kurt Angle got his big push in the WWE.

How he is being pushed at the moment is good, a feud with Abyss is enough to keep him in the upper part of the card. I would keep him out of the main event for a good 6 months, allowing it to stabilise somewhat around Hardy, RVD, and Styles. But while they are busy with each other have Wolfe build wins against wrestlers such as Abyss, Jeff Jarret, Samoa Joe,
and Sting. These are some of TNA's best loved wrestlers, though not prime main eventers right now should legitimise wolfe at the top of the card, and help make Wolfe a heel to all

waltersobchak

Have to say Cactus that Wofle is an excellent choice of superstar, and a guy that definitely crossed my mind.. But unfortunately the reason i went against choosing him or any other TNA Wrestler for that matter, is because, with their over inflated roster, it basically gives no superstar the real opportunity to get over or make an impact(excuse the pun:pac:) Also the fact that TNA's rating has so dramatically dropped in the last 6 months means that anyone, not Wolfe, Flair, Styles, Hogan or Van Dam can spark an interest in the brand and ultimately give them the boost in ratings they so dearly need.

This is also problematic in my honest opinion in the long term as both TNA and Spike TV have very little forsight in the future direction of the company, as the disastrous move to Mondays, and swift return to Thursdays proved, so i wouldnt be surprised if the company was still on the network in 6 months in my honest opinion..

Wheras Danielson has unlimited potential in WWE, as CM Punk has proved you no longer have to be 6'6 and 350 pounds to get a push in the company anymore.. I also see some paralells between Punk and Danielson not just from both being ROH and internet darlings but the similarity between their gimmicks and as i already mentioned, i can see Danielson's Vegan lifestyle having a positive impact with WWE management, especially with Linda McMahon looking for more positive press for her senate campaign..

Cactus Colm

waltersobchak wrote: »

Have to say Cactus that Wofle is an excellent choice of superstar, and a guy that definitely crossed my mind.. But unfortunately the reason i went against choosing him or any other TNA Wrestler for that matter, is because, with their over inflated roster, it basically gives no superstar the real opportunity to get over or make an impact(excuse the pun:pac:) Also the fact that TNA's rating has so dramatically dropped in the last 6 months means that anyone, not Wolfe, Flair, Styles, Hogan or Van Dam can spark an interest in the brand and ultimately give them the boost in ratings they so dearly need.

This is also problematic in my honest opinion in the long term as both TNA and Spike TV have very little forsight in the future direction of the company, as the disastrous move to Mondays, and swift return to Thursdays proved, so i wouldnt be surprised if the company was still on the network in 6 months in my honest opinion..

TNA's ratings have suffered. The management behind TNA decided to go head to head against Monday Night Raw, and they lost. But what it has shown is that TNA are ready to take risks, and that is a good thing. The swift return to Thursdays show that they are smart enough to recognise a bad decision and take action to correct it.

And as for needing a ratings boost, I think history shows us that all thatis needed is that one superstar, that one angle, that one storyline, and TNA can go from low ratings to dominating WWE in no time.

WWE 1998 were on the verge of financial ruin, before the Austin McMahon storyline saved the company. Once NWO arrived in WCW in 1996 the company dominated the ratings for 84 weeks, before that the company barely made any money (in fact 1995 was the first time in its history it made any kind of profit). So the health of the ratings and the company would not hinder a push for Wolfe, if anything it would encourage TNA to take more risks and push wrestlers like him.

waltersobchak wrote: »

Wheras Danielson has unlimited potential in WWE, as CM Punk has proved you no longer have to be 6'6 and 350 pounds to get a push in the company anymore.. I also see some paralells between Punk and Danielson not just from both being ROH and internet darlings but the similarity between their gimmicks and as i already mentioned, i can see Danielson's Vegan lifestyle having a positive impact with WWE management, especially with Linda McMahon looking for more positive press for her senate campaign..

As for Daniel Bryan ... well ...

His Vegan lifestyle is nothing to celebrate, in fact any association with PETA is one that WWE would probably want to distance themselves from. First, their "I'd rather go naked" campaign is hardly child friendly. But even worse, they are very supportive of militant animal welfare groups, including helping pay for the defence of a woman who pleaded guilty to planting a bomb under a persons car. Like WWE Peta have also targeted children, protesting outside schools, and passing onto children literature with titles such as Your Mommy Kills Animals.

PETA is not an organisation that Linda McMahon would want to have any connection with.

CM Punk has proved you don't have to be 6 foot 6 to win the world titles ...but history has shown that standing at least 6 feet tall is an advantage.
Of the 40 people to hold the WWE title, 5 have been under 6 feet tall (Eddie Guerrero being the last person, Chris Jericho, Bruno Sammartino, Pedro Morales, and Ivan Koloff being the others). It hasn't been held by anyone under 6 foot tall since 2004.

Of the 17 people to hold the World Heavyweight title, 3 have been under 6 foot (Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, and Rey Mysterio).

So if I was given total carte blanche, i would build a whole division on either Raw or Smackdown, around Danielson,Kofi Kingston,Evan Bourne, Tyson Kidd, Kaval. Justin Gabriel and John Morrison,an exciting fast paced Division that’s a cross between the X-Division and an Intercontinental/US Title mid card.

A division like the Cruiserweights / Light Heavyweight divisions that WWE have tried to push, but failed time and time again, resulting in people like Jacqueline, Gillberg, and Hornswoggle holding the title. WWE does not do very well with strict divisions.

So how would i push him? Firstly i would have him show up on Smackdown, and cut a promo saying that "He has wrestled all over the world, and won titles all over the planet, he has gotten off to the wrong foot in WWE, but HE still hasn’t lost a match, HE is still undefeated.. HE is Bryan Danielson" That would be the first step for him in dropping the Daniel Bryan moniker, and losing the shackles of those NXT defeat's in the eyes of the fans.. Obviously it wont completely lose everyone's opinion of him and all the loses, but it would be a good first step, and would allow Danielson to get some good momentum. From there i would just have him kick people's head's in, and win match after match, and go on a nice little winning streak..

WWE has already made Bryan the focal point of the NXT competition, featuring him against Miz and Michael Cole, it wouldn't be easy to just ignore this past, and would necessitate him staying off air for at least a few months.

For me picking Danielson over Sheamus, MacIntyre, Kane, Orton, Cena, Kofi Kingston, Etc etc is a logical one as all these superstars and others have been pushed by WWE in the past, whilst unlike Bryan Danielson who’s basically a total open book, for a push, storylines and booking

Cena is the biggest thing in wrestling right now. Daniel Bryan / Bryan Danielson is unlikely to replace him. He does not have the right look, he hasn't shown any special connection with the crowd, or any depth of with and charisma.

I know, that didn't stop Chris Benoit, but his success was the exception that proved the rule, in WWE wrestling skills are not enough, you need that little bit extra, and I'm not sure that Danielson has it.

waltersobchak

TNA's ratings have suffered. The management behind TNA decided to go head to head against Monday Night Raw, and they lost. But what it has shown is that TNA are ready to take risks, and that is a good thing. The swift return to Thursdays show that they are smart enough to recognise a bad decision and take action to correct it.

TNA are ready to take risks, but they dont believe in the strength of their own convictions, which is proven by their return to Thursday's ,which in my honest opinion is completely ridiculous considering they went against WWE at its strongest period of the year, and gave up within 6 weeks.. are TNA "Smart enough to recognise a bad decision and take action to correct it." Or stupid enough to do it in the first place?

And as for needing a ratings boost, I think history shows us that all thatis needed is that one superstar, that one angle, that one storyline, and TNA can go from low ratings to dominating WWE in no time.

Nobody will ever dominate WWE, especially not TNA they have neither the forsight nor the management to go beyond being the number 2 promotion in the United States. History has shown that a superstar and angle can spark a boom, but only in conjunction with other situations, that align together to spark the fans interest's.. TNA have used the same desperation, and clusterf*ck booking that caused WCW's ultimate demise, as well as having the same two men in Russo and Bischoff that ran them into the ground.. TNA have alienated the major of wrestling fans who have completely given up on the them the fact that they are rating much lower now, than when they were previously on Thursdays proves this.. Wolfe will never be able to spike that rating no matter how good the guy is..

WWE 1998 were on the verge of financial ruin, before the Austin McMahon storyline saved the company. Once NWO arrived in WCW in 1996 the company dominated the ratings for 84 weeks, before that the company barely made any money (in fact 1995 was the first time in its history it made any kind of profit). So the health of the ratings and the company would not hinder a push for Wolfe, if anything it would encourage TNA to take more risks and push wrestlers like him.

But it wasn't just the NWO, that made WCW what it was, it was a combination of the influx of the cruisers, and the Upper-Card drawing power..WCW took advantage of WWF being at its weakest point ever in its history, and was able to offer fans a real alternative to WWF at the time, now with 5 hours of WWE tv a week, UFC, ROH, Youtube and literally hundreds of other outlets were fans can watch wrestling, TNA dont have the same chance to make an impact.. So what exactly does Wolfe have going for him to sparks the fans interest in the same way Flair, Hogan, Warrior, Bret, Austin and Cena did??

CM Punk has proved you don't have to be 6 foot 6 to win the world titles ...but history has shown that standing at least 6 feet tall is an advantage.
Of the 40 people to hold the WWE title, 5 have been under 6 feet tall (Eddie Guerrero being the last person, Chris Jericho, Bruno Sammartino, Pedro Morales, and Ivan Koloff being the others). It hasn't been held by anyone under 6 foot tall since 2004.

Of the 17 people to hold the World Heavyweight title, 3 have been under 6 foot (Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, and Rey Mysterio).

History may have proven that, but WWE now seem to be going in a differant direction with their superstars, over the last few years.. And are no longer just pushing monsters..

A division like the Cruiserweights / Light Heavyweight divisions that WWE have tried to push, but failed time and time again, resulting in people like Jacqueline, Gillberg, and Hornswoggle holding the title. WWE does not do very well with strict divisions.

Well the cruiserweight divison in WCW also launched the careers of Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Rey Mysterio, and Chris Jericho, all future WWE World Champions.. So i can see logic in WWE building a similar division, especially if they're building for the future..

WWE has already made Bryan the focal point of the NXT competition, featuring him against Miz and Michael Cole, it wouldn't be easy to just ignore this past, and would necessitate him staying off air for at least a few months.

I dont think Win/Loss records mean one iota to the casual WWE fan, just look at Jack Swagger's record before winning the World Title, WWE fans are quick to forget certain things if they like a superstar enough..

Cena is the biggest thing in wrestling right now. Daniel Bryan / Bryan Danielson is unlikely to replace him. He does not have the right look, he hasn't shown any special connection with the crowd, or any depth of with and charisma.

Saying Danielson doesnt have charisma is a completely ignorant statement, Danielson has proved over the last few weeks and months that he has charisma in bucketloads and the fact that he doesnt fit WWE's sterotype will endear him to fans even more, as he stands out, also with outstanding wrestling ability and he also has a certain likeability factor, which is unusual for a WWE superstar to have..

I know, that didn't stop Chris Benoit, but his success was the exception that proved the rule, in WWE wrestling skills are not enough, you need that little bit extra, and I'm not sure that Danielson has it.

WWE have a massive void of great technical wrestlers, Danielson can fill that void, and i believe he does have that bit extra and he's over with WWE Universe, which is the first step to success.

Cactus Colm

waltersobchak wrote: »

TNA are ready to take risks, but they dont believe in the strength of their own convictions, which is proven by their return to Thursday's ,which in my honest opinion is completely ridiculous considering they went against WWE at its strongest period of the year, and gave up within 6 weeks.. are TNA "Smart enough to recognise a bad decision and take action to correct it." Or stupid enough to do it in the first place?

So ... taking risks is stupid, and correcting mistakes shows a lack of convicitons?

waltersobchak wrote: »

Nobody will ever dominate WWE, especially not TNA they have neither the forsight nor the management to go beyond being the number 2 promotion in the United States.

Leeds UTD are too big to go down, Goldman Sachs will never go broke, WCW went from being the biggest thing in wrestling, to being sold to their rivals, point being never say never.

waltersobchak wrote: »

History has shown that a superstar and angle can spark a boom, but only in conjunction with other situations, that align together to spark the fans interest's.. TNA have used the same desperation, and clusterf*ck booking that caused WCW's ultimate demise, as well as having the same two men in Russo and Bischoff that ran them into the ground.. TNA have alienated the major of wrestling fans who have completely given up on the them the fact that they are rating much lower now, than when they were previously on Thursdays proves this.. Wolfe will never be able to spike that rating no matter how good the guy is..

TNA have a solid main event scene, a very talented under card, a great tag division, and an even better womens division. The raw potential is there. Bischoff and Russo are also partially respsonsible some of the greatest moments in wrestling history. In Fact Bischoff took a company that was losing money year in year out, and making it into a company that turned over hundreds of millions in profit.

waltersobchak wrote: »

But it wasn't just the NWO, that made WCW what it was, it was a combination of the influx of the cruisers, and the Upper-Card drawing power..WCW took advantage of WWF being at its weakest point ever in its history, and was able to offer fans a real alternative to WWF at the time, now with 5 hours of WWE tv a week, UFC, ROH, Youtube and literally hundreds of other outlets were fans can watch wrestling, TNA dont have the same chance to make an impact.. So what exactly does Wolfe have going for him to sparks the fans interest in the same way Flair, Hogan, Warrior, Bret, Austin and Cena did??

What Wolfe has, is everything a wrestler needs. A good look, huge ability, charisma, he is complete a package as possible, and has in his short amount of time in TNA already connected with the fans, as the recent fan ranking poll showed, placing him above every other wrestler at the promotion. Can Wolfe be the next Austin? Maybe not, but he can easily be the next Bret!

waltersobchak wrote: »

History may have proven that, but WWE now seem to be going in a differant direction with their superstars, over the last few years.. And are no longer just pushing monsters..

Yet Jack Swagger and Sheamus, WWE's newest world champions are 6 foot 6 and 6 foot 5 respectively. The Great Kahli, a terrible, unintelligible wrestler, got to the top of the WWE card on size alone.

waltersobchak wrote: »

Well the cruiserweight divison in WCW also launched the careers of Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Rey Mysterio, and Chris Jericho, all future WWE World Champions.. So i can see logic in WWE building a similar division, especially if they're building for the future..

Yup, WCW did a great job in launching the careers of Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Rey Mysterio, and Chris Jericho. WWE did a great job in making headliners out of Jamie Noble, Crash Holly, and Chavo Classic.

waltersobchak wrote: »

I dont think Win/Loss records mean one iota to the casual WWE fan, just look at Jack Swagger's record before winning the World Title, WWE fans are quick to forget certain things if they like a superstar enough..

The 6 foot 6 Jack Swagger. But you are right, a wrestlers win loss record doesn't mean much.

waltersobchak wrote: »

Saying Danielson doesnt have charisma is a completely ignorant statement, Danielson has proved over the last few weeks and months that he has charisma in bucketloads and the fact that he doesnt fit WWE's sterotype will endear him to fans even more, as he stands out, also with outstanding wrestling ability and he also has a certain likeability factor, which is unusual for a WWE superstar to have..

WWE have a massive void of great technical wrestlers, Danielson can fill that void, and i believe he does have that bit extra and he's over with WWE Universe, which is the first step to success.

Danielson is an excellent wrestler, and no doubt he'll give us some great matches, and may climb the card a bit. But I have seen nothing in him that would make him any more successful than Dean Malenko. That's not a bad thing, Malenko was a great wrestler, put on great matches, he just wasn't main event material.

waltersobchak

So ... taking risks is stupid, and correcting mistakes shows a lack of convicitons?

Nope but going against WWE in Wrestlemania mode is borderline retarded..

Leeds UTD are too big to go down, Goldman Sachs will never go broke, WCW went from being the biggest thing in wrestling, to being sold to their rivals, point being never say never.

Never say never is a pretty apt description for most situations in Pro Wrestling but TNA beating WWE in the ratings will NEVER EVER HAPPEN.. WCW capatalised on WWE's weakness at the time, WWE are stronger now than practically any time in its history, so how exactly do you see TNA ever beating WWE?

TNA have a solid main event scene, a very talented under card, a great tag division, and an even better womens division. The raw potential is there. Bischoff and Russo are also partially respsonsible some of the greatest moments in wrestling history. In Fact Bischoff took a company that was losing money year in year out, and making it into a company that turned over hundreds of millions in profit.

TNA have a solid main event scene, a very talented under card, a great tag division, and an even better womens division, but dont know how to push any of them. Bischoff and Russo are also responsible for putting WCW's heavyweight title on David Arquette and Russo himself. Neither of them have the capibilities to run a promotion in the 21st century.. And judging for some of Russo's "angles" in the last 6 months, including a rehash of the Montreal Screwjob, the guy clearly still thinks its 1997

What Wolfe has, is everything a wrestler needs. A good look, huge ability, charisma, he is complete a package as possible, and has in his short amount of time in TNA already connected with the fans, as the recent fan ranking poll showed, placing him above every other wrestler at the promotion. Can Wolfe be the next Austin? Maybe not, but he can easily be the next Bret!

I agree Wolfe is a tremendous wrestler, its just a pity the show he's on is watched by less people than those who watch NXT..

Yup, WCW did a great job in launching the careers of Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Rey Mysterio, and Chris Jericho. WWE did a great job in making headliners out of Jamie Noble, Crash Holly, and Chavo Classic.

Jamie Noble, Crash Holly, and Chavo dont/didnt have the gimmick,
charisma or fan support to get over.. But a WWE division with young superstars such as John Morrison, Bryan Danielson, Low Ki, Justin Gabriel, The Miz, Tyson Kidd and Kofi Kingston is nothing but logical to me and can ultimately let all men get over even moreso than they already are

Danielson is an excellent wrestler, and no doubt he'll give us some great matches, and may climb the card a bit. But I have seen nothing in him that would make him any more successful than Dean Malenko. That's not a bad thing, Malenko was a great wrestler, put on great matches, he just wasn't main event material.

Dean Malenko didnt have the charisma to make it to WWE's main event but Bryan Danielson does..



In conclusion i believe Bryan Danielson has proven himself to be a superstar with tremendous potential to be a long term WWE player, and is currently involved in the most interesting Wrestling angle in the last 10 years, I believe that with some of my outlined plans, including the building of a long term mid card division where Wrestling rather than storylines are used to let young superstars get over, and ultimately like WCW did with the cruiserweights 15 years ago it can get superstars of the future over.. Thats the key to this.. The Future, as i honestly see Bryan Danielson being a WWE superstar of the future.. And a WWE Main Eventer of the future also

Cactus Colm

waltersobchak wrote: »

Nope but going against WWE in Wrestlemania mode is borderline retarded..

Never say never is a pretty apt description for most situations in Pro Wrestling but TNA beating WWE in the ratings will NEVER EVER HAPPEN.. WCW capatalised on WWE's weakness at the time, WWE are stronger now than practically any time in its history, so how exactly do you see TNA ever beating WWE?

WWE are have basically been in a holding pattern for the last several years. EVERY year since the invastion, people have considered it to have gotten worse. It was only a few years ago when RAW would regularily get ratings in the 4's. Now it's lucky to get ratings in the 3's.

The pg-ification, the brand nonsense, the return of ecw, the over reliance on Triple H, Cena, Orton, and Batista, have all led to ratings slowly decreasing. Smackdown is getting ratings in the high 1's! It could soon be replacing NXT on SyFy! Believe me when that happens TNA Impact's ratings will quickly match those of smackdown.

waltersobchak wrote: »

TNA have a solid main event scene, a very talented under card, a great tag division, and an even better womens division, but dont know how to push any of them. Bischoff and Russo are also responsible for putting WCW's heavyweight title on David Arquette and Russo himself.

Bischoff was responsible for making stars out of Jericho, Benoit, Mysterio with the Cruiserweight division ... Russo helped make stars out of Hardcore Holly, Goldust, Al Snow ... They helped make Booker T, Jeff Jarrett, and Scott STeiner into legit main eventers.

And judging for some of Russo's "angles" in the last 6 months, including a rehash of the Montreal Screwjob, the guy clearly still thinks its 1997

And vince hasn't basically being rehashing the same feud over and over for the last decade? Vince V Stone Cold, Vince V Cena, Vince V Lashley, rince and repeat. WWE has relied on the montreal screwjob for angles for years. Rolling it out to drum up a bit of controversy every couple of years.

Hell, the only reason TNA used Montreal was the return of Bret to WWE, made it relevant again.

Jamie Noble, Crash Holly, and Chavo dont/didnt have the gimmick,
charisma or fan support to get over.. But a WWE division with young superstars such as John Morrison, Bryan Danielson, Low Ki, Justin Gabriel, The Miz, Tyson Kidd and Kofi Kingston is nothing but logical to me and can ultimately let all men get over even moreso than they already are

How can you expect a company that can't even maintain a TAG Divsion (one of the most basic in professional wrestling) to support and push a new lighweight division. Something they have failed to do multiple times over in the 90's and 00's. All that will happen is another meaningless belt would be added to the load of belts that already mean nothing in the wwe today.

Dean Malenko didnt have the charisma to make it to WWE's main event but Bryan Danielson does..


In conclusion i believe Bryan Danielson has proven himself to be a superstar with tremendous potential to be a long term WWE player, and is currently involved in the most interesting Wrestling angle in the last 10 years, I believe that with some of my outlined plans, including the building of a long term mid card division where Wrestling rather than storylines are used to let young superstars get over, and ultimately like WCW did with the cruiserweights 15 years ago it can get superstars of the future over.. Thats the key to this.. The Future, as i honestly see Bryan Danielson being a WWE superstar of the future.. And a WWE Main Eventer of the future also

Bryan Danielson's very look is a handicap in a company that saves its biggest pushes for 6 foot + wrestlers . He doesn't have the colourful personality or mic skills required in the WWE's pg environment. Danielson is talented, but he is the type of worker used to get other people more over (like The Miz).

The fact of the matter is the push you'd require to make Danielson a the superstar you think he could be would require such an earth shattering shift in WWE's creative policy. It isn't impossible that he will become a main eventer, but it is hugely unlikely, and he will never NEVER become the man to lead it. He will never have the popularity of Cena, Austin, or even Bret Hart.

As I've stated (and you haven't denied), Desmond Wolfe is the complete package as a wrestler. Tonnes of charisma and wrestling talent. Even has the right look to make it in ANY company (including WWE).

Pushing Wolfe to the top, would not require a major policy shift in the TNA backstage, in fact TNA are already looking to push new stars into the upper card. Wolfe will be a legit main eventer in the near future, he will be a TNA World Champion. And he has every chance to become the leading face of the company, and has the potential to bring it to new, higher levels.

Bounty Hunter

good debate lads, im bumping this thread now as the poll is added and votes are open to crown the PW ATH knockout champion for 2010.

odd i dont seem to be able to edit the poll for this purpose after accidentally making the votes public, so please dont check who is winning and comment on it in the other thread as i dont want peoples votes being influenced by the possible outcome

Bounty Hunter

with 75% of the vote, your ATH knockout champion for 2010...Waltersobchek

Cactus Colm

wow! had hoped it would be a little bit closer ... well done Walter, totally deserved.

And cheers for running it again BH.

flahavaj

Well done Walter. And hard luck Cactus, it wasn't a 4 point game as they say.

JP Liz V1

Congrats Walter and also well done to Cactus that was one hell of a final

It was a great tournament BH well done

waltersobchak

Thanks alot everyone, especially BH for the great show, and Cactus for the awesome final,. Off i go to write the best Smackdown of my life:pac: bang bang

D2D

waltersobchak wrote: »

Thanks alot everyone, especially BH for the great show, and Cactus for the awesome final,. Off i go to write the best Smackdown of my life:pac: bang bang

A fitting end to the ATH competition, a BWE plug


copyright Walter Sobcheck Industries