Expensive CO2

DTC

I've been thinking of getting a WE gas blowback scar lately but the only thing putting me off is the price of co2 capsules. None of the big retailers seem to sell it that cheap and buying abroad shipping quickly adds up. Does anybody else think that Irish prices are too high for co2. Is there anywhere that does co2 in bulk?

Puding

generally get mine from the uk if you buy in bulk 100+ at a time price can work out as lower than 50c a unit with shipping will try and dig up the link

DTC

Puding wrote: »

generally get mine from the uk if you buy in bulk 100+ at a time price can work out as lower than 50c a unit with shipping will try and dig up the link

Thanks, a friend of mine told me he got some cheap on ebay so i might go and have a google. You'd think retailers would be able to get them in bulk on the cheap, maybe the market just isn't big enough yet.

Puding

have a look on ebay and you will more than likely come across the same places i get mine i think there about 2 or 3 places in the uk offering decent bulk deals

moggser

here is the link here that me self and the lads get them from

http://www.co2cartridges.co.uk/eu/?gclid=CI6Uye_IhKICFQc9lAodnxCUFQ

DTC

moggser wrote: »

here is the link here that me self and the lads get them from

http://www.co2cartridges.co.uk/eu/?gclid=CI6Uye_IhKICFQc9lAodnxCUFQ

Thanks, I'll have a look around that site. This is the cheapest I've found on ebay so far http://cgi.ebay.ie/50x-12g-CO2-Cartridges-for-Airsoft-or-Paintball_W0QQitemZ150451089719QQihZ005QQcategoryZ64674QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

NakedDex

Items become cheap when bought in bulk, but to warrant purchasing in bulk a demand is needed from the market. The CO2 GBB demographic in Ireland is still fairly miniscule. Not many have shelled out for GBB rifles capable of CO2 use, and even less have coughed up for a full compliment of magazines to suit.
Similarly, the CO2 pistol market is dwarfed by regular Green and 134a offerings, and the majority of CO2 pistols are exceptionally efficient, leading to less need for a spare capsules. In most pistols, the average amount of rounds fired per capsule can be as much as double it's Green gas equivalent. In other words, if you're getting (hypothetically) forty rounds off per fill of green, you will likely get about eighty off per capsule. (As always, there are exceptions. An NBB/revolver could be more, where a heavy slide/extra strong recoil GBB could be less)

A combination of very few people using a very small amount of capsules in GBB rifles and the low amount of rounds fired in any days gaming with a CO2 pistol means sufficient demand isn't there for a retailer to buy in a thousand capsules to sell at half price, where a hundred might already take a month to shift.
They'll get cheaper as the CO2 market (inevitably) increases and the technology/hardware improves and diversifies.

Sod'o swords

NakedDex wrote: »

Items become cheap when bought in bulk, but to warrant purchasing in bulk a demand is needed from the market. The CO2 GBB demographic in Ireland is still fairly miniscule. Not many have shelled out for GBB rifles capable of CO2 use, and even less have coughed up for a full compliment of magazines to suit.
Similarly, the CO2 pistol market is dwarfed by regular Green and 134a offerings, and the majority of CO2 pistols are exceptionally efficient, leading to less need for a spare capsules. In most pistols, the average amount of rounds fired per capsule is about double it's Green gas equivalent. In other words, if you're getting (hypothetically) forty rounds off per fill of green, you will likely get about eighty off per capsule.

A combination of very few people using a very small amount of capsules in GBB rifles and the low amount of rounds fired in any days gaming with a CO2 pistol means sufficient demand isn't there for a retailer to buy in a thousand capsules to sell at half price, where a hundred might already take a month to shift.
They'll get cheaper as the CO2 market (inevitably) increases and the technology/hardware improves and diversifies.

Dex, what happens when we Die?

moggser

Sod'o swords wrote: »

Dex, what happens when we Die?

inevitably the price of co2 comes down:)

NakedDex

Sod'o swords wrote: »

Dex, what happens when we Die?

I'll tell you when you're older, but it's kind of cool and involves really big swords.

DTC

NakedDex wrote: »

Items become cheap when bought in bulk, but to warrant purchasing in bulk a demand is needed from the market. The CO2 GBB demographic in Ireland is still fairly miniscule. Not many have shelled out for GBB rifles capable of CO2 use, and even less have coughed up for a full compliment of magazines to suit.
Similarly, the CO2 pistol market is dwarfed by regular Green and 134a offerings, and the majority of CO2 pistols are exceptionally efficient, leading to less need for a spare capsules. In most pistols, the average amount of rounds fired per capsule can be as much as double it's Green gas equivalent. In other words, if you're getting (hypothetically) forty rounds off per fill of green, you will likely get about eighty off per capsule. (As always, there are exceptions. An NBB/revolver could be more, where a heavy slide/extra strong recoil GBB could be less)

A combination of very few people using a very small amount of capsules in GBB rifles and the low amount of rounds fired in any days gaming with a CO2 pistol means sufficient demand isn't there for a retailer to buy in a thousand capsules to sell at half price, where a hundred might already take a month to shift.
They'll get cheaper as the CO2 market (inevitably) increases and the technology/hardware improves and diversifies.

Its a bit irritating that eirsoft will sell you a gas blowback rifle but only sell 5 packs of cartridges at over a euro per cartridge, I'd say plenty of people are turned off by the associated cost of co2.

NakedDex

I think you'll find that the majority of people who are turned off CO2 powered devices are turned off by the cost of magazines, retrofitting NPAS kits and the general maintenance involved in owning a GBB rifle. If someone is willing to spend €300-500 on a GBB rifle, and a further €200-300 on magazines, is probably not massively worried about paying a euro a capsule.

Also, you'll find that just about everywhere that sells capsules, sells them in either packs of five or as singles. Singles are actually more popular as a sizeable proportion of the CO2 market still lies within pistols, and users of such devices usually only want/need one or two spares at a time. I wouldn't call it irritating so much as playing to your market. If a pistol owner only has one CO2 mag and runs out of gas, why should he be forced to buy a box of ten or more?

Leftyflip

DTC wrote: »

Its a bit irritating that eirsoft will sell you a gas blowback rifle but only sell 5 packs of cartridges at over a euro per cartridge, I'd say plenty of people are turned off by the associated cost of co2.

Yes, its terrible how them pesky retailers need to make a profit, wholesay prices I say!


:pac:

DTC

NakedDex wrote: »

I think you'll find that the majority of people who are turned off CO2 powered devices are turned off by the cost of magazines, retrofitting NPAS kits and the general maintenance involved in owning a GBB rifle. If someone is willing to spend €300-500 on a GBB rifle, and a further €200-300 on magazines, is probably not massively worried about paying a euro a capsule.

Also, you'll find that just about everywhere that sells capsules, sells them in either packs of five or as singles. Singles are actually more popular as a sizeable proportion of the CO2 market still lies within pistols, and users of such devices usually only want/need one or two spares at a time. I wouldn't call it irritating so much as playing to your market. If a pistol owner only has one CO2 mag and runs out of gas, why should he be forced to buy a box of ten or more?

Just because I want to invest in a gbb rifle doesn't mean I'm rich and i shouldn't care about the prices of co2. Would you be happy if the cost of 6mm bbs was high? I never said everyone should have to buy boxes of ten, if I can find a place that will deliver 50 co2 to my door for less than 40 euro after 10 minutes retailers must be making a decent profit.

moggser

DTC wrote: »

Just because I want to invest in a gbb rifle doesn't mean I'm rich and i shouldn't care about the prices of co2. Would you be happy if the cost of 6mm bbs was high? I never said everyone should have to buy boxes of ten, if I can find a place that will deliver 50 co2 to my door for less than 40 euro after 10 minutes retailers must be making a decent profit.

well if ya buy in bulk of 500 from that link i posted and get 2 mates to in on it with ya you will get 150 capsules each for 55 euro each roughly cant get any cheaper then that

Captain Chaos

DTC wrote: »

if I can find a place that will deliver 50 co2 to my door for less than 40 euro after 10 minutes retailers must be making a decent profit.

Clearly missed the part about bulk buys and market share.

There is no market share here in Ireland, small market low consumption. Retailers can't really afford to buy stock in bulk as it will take a while to shift it. If they could it would be cheaper, simple economy mechanics really.

gerrowadat

I think it's probably more to do with where retailers get their stuff. Any CO2 I've gotten in Irish Retailers has been cybergun or ASG branded, i.e. the retailer is probably being ridden for it in the first place.

I can see the prices going down as demand increases, co2 up until recently was a very low-usage item, so who knows. ASG and cybergun are europe-wide operations so it may take a while.

I should also note that 12g co2 capsules are not unusual items or rare or specific to airsoft. They're used in fast bike-pumps, and to blow up balloons, as well as in catering. That's why they're so cheap off co2cartridges.co.uk.

NakedDex

DTC wrote: »

Just because I want to invest in a gbb rifle doesn't mean I'm rich and i shouldn't care about the prices of co2. Would you be happy if the cost of 6mm bbs was high? I never said everyone should have to buy boxes of ten, if I can find a place that will deliver 50 co2 to my door for less than 40 euro after 10 minutes retailers must be making a decent profit.

An item being in sparse use, in any industry, is expensive to keep in stock. It's nothing to do with whether you, personally, are willing to pay a certain amount for a CO2 capsule, it's to do with whether the retailer can shift all the units they've bought in.

Expanding on your example, if a retailer bought in a thousand CO2 capsules (not an unfeasible wholesale quantity), and yourself and another person were of the same mindset and wanted fifty capsules each, that still leaves the retailer with nine hundred capsules to shift, and said retailer may not see another order for a box of fifty for weeks.
If the same retailer bought in two hundred capsules instead, and used the rest of the money to invest in other items that would shift as quickly (bb's, for example), then the retailer hasn't made a short term loss on slow stock. Supply vs demand.

The other big hurdle that is keeping costs up is the amount of middle men. It's well and good to say you can get those same capsules from a website for less than the retail price here, but think about where they're coming from.
You're ordering from an online warehouse who supplies anyone wanting CO2, not just airsoft. That dramatically increases the market, which increases the demand. The demand means more guarunteed sales, which means bigger orders from the manufacturer are feasible. This pushes the cost-per-unit down for the wholesaler (who you're dealing with in the case of that website), who then passes some of that saving on to you in order to remain competitive.
Your average airsoft retailer, anywhere in the world, is dealing with a distributor. The distributor may also be dealing with a larger distributor, who in turn is dealing with a rebrander (ASG, Cybergun etc). The rebrander is dealing with a wholesaler and the wholesaler is dealing with a manufacturer. All of those people want a cut, and all of those people will set a price-per-unit based on the demand of the tier below them.

Even if your local airsoft retailer went to the site you are going to, and picked up fifty capsules for €40 delivered, a small percentage will have to go onto that in order to make it worth the effort for the retailer to go through and to pay the bills. Since the unit price is so small, and the demand is low and intermittent, that percentage would have to be a little more than average, say 20%. Guess what, that makes the price of a capsule €1, the retail price in Ireland. It also means the retailer only makes €10 from fifty individual items of stock, because virtually no-one in this country is ready to buy that many capsules on anywhere near a regular basis.



Regardless of all of the above, the market is going to dictate the price. As it is, the market is fledgling. This time next year, that cost could have dropped considerably, but it's early days in widespread CO2 use in Ireland yet.

Gray

If you think think your being over charged by Airsoft retailers check out the price in Halfords €6 for a 2 pack:eek:

If your planing to use large amounts you will always get a better deal from a wholesaler than a retailer providing your prepared to pay for a six months supply up front this is the same for anything.

Inari

Consumables (Gas & BBs) are going to be a retailers main seller to returning customers, as they'll have their chosen airsoft devices. So yes, they do need to make a profit to stay open.

Any time I've bought CO2, I've always been given extra than I asked for. Or not charged when buying small amounts. Getting service like that online isn't going to happen, so I'm happy to pay that little bit more to continue recieving service with a smile, that in turn puts one on my face.