Toilet Cistern inlet valve

Peej255

I'm trying to find information on how to reduce the flow into the toilet cistern after flushing.
I can reduce the flow to a suitable level by half holding in a little button on the side of the inlet valve, the button that the ballcock lever pushes against.
Is there a way to adjust the 'open' position of the button so that the valve flows less or do i need to buy a new valve, or do something else entirely?
thanks

grainnek

Peej255 wrote: »

I'm trying to find information on how to reduce the flow into the toilet cistern after flushing.
I can reduce the flow to a suitable level by half holding in a little button on the side of the inlet valve, the button that the ballcock lever pushes against.
Is there a way to adjust the 'open' position of the button so that the valve flows less or do i need to buy a new valve, or do something else entirely?
thanks

i seen somewhere before that if you put soemthing into the cistern like a small sand bag then the cistern itself will take in less water..this woudl probably reduce the flow

Peej255

I've seen about placing a brick, sand, full bottle in the cistern.
And i'll do that if i can't figure out the valve.
The problem with that is when the cistern is empty the lever on the ballcock is quite far away from the button on the inlet valve. So putting something in the cistern will only reduce the amount of water that flushes (and the time the water flows into the cistern afterwards), but it won't reduce the flow rate unless i put enough sand in the cistern to raise the lever to the button, at which point i don't think the flush will be strong enough.

antiskeptic

Peej255 wrote: »

I'm trying to find information on how to reduce the flow into the toilet cistern after flushing.
I can reduce the flow to a suitable level by half holding in a little button on the side of the inlet valve, the button that the ballcock lever pushes against.
Is there a way to adjust the 'open' position of the button so that the valve flows less or do i need to buy a new valve, or do something else entirely?
thanks

What are you trying to achieve?

A slower flow rate (litres/min) will extend the time it takes to fill the cistern but the cistern will fill to the same level.

A brick won't affect the flow rate but will reduce the fill amount by the volume of the brick

The easier way to reduce the fill amount (if that's what you want to do) is to adjust the ballcock. Perhaps you could say what your goal is first though..

Peej255

yes, a slower flow rate, to reduce the noise. but to fill the same amount, or less if that's the only way to achieve the slower flow rate. I don't really care how long it takes to fill.

antiskeptic

Peej255 wrote: »

yes, a slower flow rate, to reduce the noise. but to fill the same amount, or less if that's the only way to achieve the slower flow rate. I don't really care how long it takes to fill.

Gotcha. Thanks. I don't think a slower fill will help. It'll hinder more like.

My own cisterns fill nozzle got partially blocked with debris over time and a fill took about 2 minutes - with all the attendent "shissshing" and dripping noise. The slow fill was a pain - especially if you needed to flush a second time.

I unblocked it and it now fills in about 15 seconds and is quieter to boot. Is it the duration of the fill allied to the noise that's causing grief?

The "shiiishing" /dripping sound frequently worsens towards the end of the fill - when the valve is nearly closed and the water is squeezing through a very small oriface. With a slow-filling cistern this can go on for quite a while and it's that that drives you mad. A super-fast fill see's you whip through this "shiiish-zone" and back to quietness. It's over before it has a chance to catch your attention.

I dunno if all cistern valves are like mine, but my own has a screw off piece which allows you to either clean the fill nozzle or fit a larger one (to speed up the fill - you can buy them in Chadwicks). Perhaps report back on the precise nature of the noise.

If it's the case that any noise is too much noise, there are valve types that fill more silently - they run a flimsy plastic tube from valve outlet to under water line - permitting the water to trickle silently into the cistern. But if it's shiishing and fill duration that's causing the problem then you might be able to sort out your existing valve.

Viper Antidote

The input into the cistern is usually adjustable and positioning it either side can reduce noise levels depending on what the water is falling on.

One easy fix is to attach a short tube or even qualpex (must be cut lengthways or at a steep angle at bottom so as not to impede the flow) to the inlet off the ball cock, with cable ties or jubliee clip.
The length of the tube depends on your cistern but by trial and error you can cut it to just below the water level when the cistern has flushed sso when it fills there'll be no noise as it refills.
This does work......depending of course on the ball cock valve in the cistern.

I believe you can purchase a silent fill ball cock valve.....worth giving heatmerchants or similar a call to enquire!

Peej255

I think i need to more fully explain the problem.

The toilet itself doesn't make much noise, but the pipes above my room make a shiiiiiiishing noise while the cistern is refilling.

When i hold the button on the side of the inlet valve halfway down, the flow rate decreases, and the noise from the pipes in the attic stops (or at least gets very quiet).

So what i need is a way to have the flow rate always at that lower setting.
So i think i need to open it up and adjust something inside it, or buy a new valve of some kind? Neither of which i know anything about.

Viper Antidote

A quick fix would be to install an inline valve onto the feed pipe into the cistern, turning the valve so it's only half open will have the same effect as what you've done manually.

If you can get access to the pipes above you then i'd suggest insulating them to prevent additional noise if they're touching or vibrating off anything as the water passes thru.

antiskeptic

Peej255 wrote: »

I think i need to more fully explain the problem.

The toilet itself doesn't make much noise, but the pipes above my room make a shiiiiiiishing noise while the cistern is refilling.

When i hold the button on the side of the inlet valve halfway down, the flow rate decreases, and the noise from the pipes in the attic stops (or at least gets very quiet).

So what i need is a way to have the flow rate always at that lower setting.
So i think i need to open it up and adjust something inside it, or buy a new valve of some kind? Neither of which i know anything about.

Okay.

The very first thing to check is whether there's an isolation valve in the water line leading to the toilet. That's there so you can cut off the water supply to the cistern to service it. If fitted, the isolation valve will usually be somewhere between the cistern and where the feed waterpipe disappears off into the wall. They usually don't have handle - just a screwdriver slot you can turn (with a screwdriver!) to open/close the isolation valve. And so turn on/off the water. Sometimes an isolation valve will be fitted in the attic. Sometimes there's no isolation valve at all.

If there's such a valve you can part shut it to reduce the flow of water to the cistern

If not...


The "button" you're holding goes into the valve body and pushs up against a disc inside - a disc with a hole in it. The water flows through this hole into the cistern. As the level rises in the cistern, the button moves towards the hole closing it off and reducing flow - shutting it off completely at full fill. This disc-with-a-hole comes in different sizes so that fill rate can be adjusted.

Is your cistern valve something like this?

http://www.toolstation.com/images/library/stock/webbig/32033.jpg


After shutting the water off (assuming no isolation valve it means shutting off the mains supply to the attic tank and running the upstairs cold water and cistern until the tank is empty) you can take apart the valve. That "button" will go through a part of the valve which is held on (in my case anyway) by a hand-removable 'nut'. Coloured blue (the top blued item) in the link

This "nut" is just a ring of plastic with bobbles on it to help you get a grip. When you unscrew the nut, the assembly holding the button etc, will come away, and inside you'll see the disc-with-a-hole which you can fish out with a paper clip.

Take it to Chadwicks, get some with smaller holes and try them out.

Peej255

This sort of thing
http://www.purewaterproducts.co.uk/images/Inline%20Stop%20Valve%20%20Quarter%20Inch%20Pushfit.jpg
?

I could probably replace it, if it's just a matter of shutting the water off, unscrewing one, and then screwing it in?
but i've a feeling it's more complicated than that...

antiskeptic

Peej255 wrote: »

This sort of thing
http://www.purewaterproducts.co.uk/images/Inline%20Stop%20Valve%20%20Quarter%20Inch%20Pushfit.jpg
?

I could probably replace it, if it's just a matter of shutting the water off, unscrewing one, and then screwing it in?
but i've a feeling it's more complicated than that...

This as an isolation valve? That kind of thing - although the one pictured is suitable for push-to-fit plastic hoses in what looks like water-filtration units. But that's the basic idea. If you've no inline valve fitted then it'd be more complicated to fit one than adjust the disc size however.

Peej255

@antiskeptic

There's no isolation valve near the toilet, there might be one in the attic, there's definitely one under the sink in the kitchen.

I've attached 3 pics of the valve.

Will what you said work with this type?

If i run the attic tank till it's empty is there a chance that it could airlock?

Viper Antidote

In line valve.....http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=9270646&fh_view_size=150&fh_start_index=10&fh_location=%2f%2fcatalog01%2fen_GB&fh_search=valve&fh_eds=%c3%9f&fh_refview=search&ts=1275577751322&isSearch=true

Turn off the water for the cistern in the hot press, you'll find a few valves......turn on the cold tap.....leave it running......and as you close each valve in turn by about half you'll ascertain which is the correct valve to turn off fully for the cistern feed.

Viper Antidote

antiskeptic wrote: »

Okay.

The very first thing to check is whether there's an isolation valve in the water line leading to the toilet. That's there so you can cut off the water supply to the cistern to service it. If fitted, the isolation valve will usually be somewhere between the cistern and where the feed waterpipe disappears off into the wall. They usually don't have handle - just a screwdriver slot you can turn (with a screwdriver!) to open/close the isolation valve. And so turn on/off the water. Sometimes an isolation valve will be fitted in the attic. Sometimes there's no isolation valve at all.

If there's such a valve you can part shut it to reduce the flow of water to the cistern

If not...


The "button" you're holding goes into the valve body and pushs up against a disc inside - a disc with a hole in it. The water flows through this hole into the cistern. As the level rises in the cistern, the button moves towards the hole closing it off and reducing flow - shutting it off completely at full fill. This disc-with-a-hole comes in different sizes so that fill rate can be adjusted.

Is your cistern valve something like this?

http://www.toolstation.com/images/library/stock/webbig/32033.jpg


After shutting the water off (assuming no isolation valve it means shutting off the mains supply to the attic tank and running the upstairs cold water and cistern until the tank is empty) you can take apart the valve. That "button" will go through a part of the valve which is held on (in my case anyway) by a hand-removable 'nut'. Coloured blue (the top blued item) in the link

This "nut" is just a ring of plastic with bobbles on it to help you get a grip. When you unscrew the nut, the assembly holding the button etc, will come away, and inside you'll see the disc-with-a-hole which you can fish out with a paper clip.

Take it to Chadwicks, get some with smaller holes and try them out.

Old fix is to use a piece of bicycle tube cut to size ....... I prefer motorbike/car tube! .........useful if you're stuck!

Chadwicks should have the right washer tho!

Peej255

Viper Antidote wrote: »

In line valve.....http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=9270646&fh_view_size=150&fh_start_index=10&fh_location=%2f%2fcatalog01%2fen_GB&fh_search=valve&fh_eds=%c3%9f&fh_refview=search&ts=1275577751322&isSearch=true

Turn off the water for the cistern in the hot press, you'll find a few valves......turn on the cold tap.....leave it running......and as you close each valve in turn by about half you'll ascertain which is the correct valve to turn off fully for the cistern feed.

Installing an inline valve looks like it involves cutting a pipe, or maybe replacing one?

Peej255

Viper Antidote wrote: »

Old fix is to use a piece of bicycle tube cut to size ....... I prefer motorbike/car tube! .........useful if you're stuck!

Chadwicks should have the right washer tho!

ok, thanks, i'll give that a try

antiskeptic

Peej255 wrote: »

@antiskeptic

There's no isolation valve near the toilet, there might be one in the attic, there's definitely one under the sink in the kitchen.

I've attached 3 pics of the valve.

Will what you said work with this type?

If i run the attic tank till it's empty is there a chance that it could airlock?

Good stuff. You can see the 'nut' I mean - the one with the serrated surface that holds the button assembly in place. I'm supposing you can fit standard flow discs to this valve by virtue of the fact that standard sized flow discs exist. Your valve looks standard enough to me.

As for airlocks? They occur due to poorly laid pipe runs but again you never know. The way to minimise the risk is to shut off the mains supply to the house and keep flushing the toilet until the water runs out - but don't turn on any other taps in the house whilst you work on the system. That way all other runs are kept filled with water until you refill the tank and you've reduced the chance of an airlock to the minimum.

If you go for it then observe how things come apart so that you can ease the reassembly. It should only take a few mins to find out.

ps: you'll know you've turned off the mains valve if your kitchen sink cold tap ceases flowing.

antiskeptic

Viper Antidote wrote: »

Old fix is to use a piece of bicycle tube cut to size ....... I prefer motorbike/car tube! .........useful if you're stuck!

Chadwicks should have the right washer tho!