Heres an Idea on how legalising Drugs could be done

silliegillie

I started this Thread in Humanities but wasn't getting much response, maybe no one is interested but heres another shot at it
Drugs Currently Available of the market

* Cafeine,Nicotine,Paracetamol :
As far as Im aware no legislation on who can sell them ie I mean any shop can sell them but in some cases only to people over a certain age group, Im assuming tea/Coffeehas no age limit

*Alcohol :
Anywhere with an appropriate license ie Pub, Offy, Restaurant ectt... Has to have a relevant license to sell and there are penalties

*Non prescition Medication (Codeine):
Only available from specialist suitaby trained ie pharmacist

*Prescription Medication:
Only available from specialist suitably trained ie pharmacist and with only a prescription from a Medical practitioner who has diagnosed that the person needs this type of Drug. Rules and regulations also in places and i'm assuming that there is penalties in place for a pharmacist who gives out prescription medication without written approval from Doctor, whether these penalties are ever exercised by the authorities I have no idea.

Mull these together and maybe possible that we can come up with a way to legalise marijuana or some other drugs. My plan.

1) In order to be able to avail of these Drugs you need to have a certificate from a doctor to declare that you are in good enough health to buy this stuff. ie any one over the age of 18 has to go to the Doctor, ask for a medical Test or whatever from the doctor to be given a Dope card lets call it for now. Put a charge of 80 euro for this. The Doctor does the Check and certifies you as being able to avail. Then you are given this card by garda on Doctors recommendation. This card has an expiration date of lets say 1 year. This may lead to Doctors specialising in DOPE card offers just like you have specialist. which I would be in favor of.

2) Have premises where you can buy these Drugs with the same rules and regulations for current Alcohol licenses except that who ever owns these premises must have a training course done on the effect of these drug like a watered down pharmacist course and have very strict rules to follow we can discuss that later. Only people who have the Dope card which was previously been supplied by the doctor can purchase these drugs.

3) When you go back for a new card after the expiration date the doctor conducts more tests and also involved would be an addiction test. Not sure how this is done but maybe need to consult with family members ect.. If there is no sign of addiction a new card can be authorized. If evidence of addiction is found there will be no Card given and maybe a care plan can be put in place to help.

Cultivation -

In order to cultivate the marijuana you must obtain a license again from the Garda, with 2 types of cultivation licenses

1)Commercial cultivation- To be sold to the Premises with only a license to sell. This may lead farmers to expand on what they currently grow , plus after the THC part ie Buds have been harvested then the rest of the weed can be used for paper cloth ect...
I imagine that the license for this would be no more than just asking the garda permission to grow and some type of paper work involved, let say maybe 100 euro for a 5 year license or something like that.

2)Personal Cultivation- As long as you have a dope card you can cultivate and smoke your own but there will be a max of only growing maybe 5 plants at a time.

Cons-

Q : Just because you have a Dope card you can sell it on to anybody
A : If this is found to be the case well then the same rules should apply as the current rule of buying Alcohol for minors, If you are found to be giving these drugs to some one without a DOPE card you will be penalised,prosecuted ect..

Q : Cigarettes are legal but there is still a black market for them so why wouldn't the black market still continue
A : Black market Cigs come in from other countries and it is the price that is making it the black market more appealing to people. I know I would much rather purchase Marijuana from a recognized legal source than a shady character. Also I'm not too aware of a black market for Alcohol in Ireland.



Anybody found breaking these rules should be liable to penalties maybe extremely harsh penalties but it would all be done in an extremely controlled way.

I'm sure there are holes in this argument and that is why I posted it to thrash them out. There will also be people who just don't want these things legalised and want alcohol Banned that is for another thread, this is a what if scenario I have posted.

All Times and prices in here are just a rough draft they can be longer or shorter more expensive less expensive, That part I haven't worked out but for the moment i have just put in some idea. Some may think this is too extreme, I do aswell, But in order for it to be accepted I think it does need a good bit of regulation, I dont mind giving up a little bit to get my end goal.

Cheap Thrills!

Awwwww, my face hurts

Banned Account

CONS - part two

Person with said dope card ends up injured, ill or moves onto more harmful substances. Sues Dr for granting dope card. Dr will take no more part, nor will other Dr's.

Scheme collapses ... Joe Duffy ... AH threads ...

silliegillie

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

Awwwww, my face hurts

Too Much Reading ? Theres alot there sorry

mikom

silliegillie wrote: »

* Cafeine,Nicotine,Paracetamol :

Nicotine, Valium, Vicodin, Marijuana, Ecstasy and Alcohol, C-C-C-C-C-Cocaine.

ScumLord

The first part is just how it is now.

I don't see the reason for going to a doctor to get a cert, I also don't see any doctor giving you a cert to put chemicals into your body for fun. I would have thought it would go against their ethics which is to use drugs to make people better not get them off their heads.

I'd be willing to pay €80 for the right to smoke weed though, it's allot cheaper than the states where it can cost a few hundred for the privilege.

Sell it like alcohol, or just allow people to grow a personal crop.

Cheap Thrills!

It seems more complicated than it is now.

I'm not goin to no Doctor and Guard to get a card to get 'permission' to toke!!!

Noes!

silliegillie

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

CONS - part two

Person with said dope card ends up injured, ill or moves onto more harmful substances. Sues Dr for granting dope card. Dr will take no more part, nor will other Dr's.

Scheme collapses ... Joe Duffy ... AH threads ...

You cant sue for your own injuries or Damages cause by alcohol,or if you progress from beer to spirits. So why should this be different ? you have to take your own responsibility here, If there is a medical reason then you wouldn't get the card, after that its your choice. card also has an expiration date, So Gives Doctor a chance re-evaluate you.

Earthhorse

silliegillie wrote: »

You cant sue for your own injuries or Damages cause by alcohol,or if you progress from beer to spirits. So why should this be different ?

Because you don't get a cert from your doctor which allows you to purchase alcohol.

silliegillie

ScumLord wrote: »

The first part is just how it is now.

I don't see the reason for going to a doctor to get a cert, I also don't see any doctor giving you a cert to put chemicals into your body for fun. I would have thought it would go against their ethics which is to use drugs to make people better not get them off their heads.
p.

Never taught of it like that, Good point TBH. Maybe change what type of examination the Doctor does ?

Banned Account

silliegillie wrote: »

You cant sue for your own injuries or Damages cause by alcohol,or if you progress from beer to spirits. So why should this be different ? you have to take your own responsibility here, If there is a medical reason then you wouldn't get the card, after that its your choice. card also has an expiration date, So Gives Doctor a chance re-evaluate you.

AN INDEMNITY is being sought in a “ground-breaking” case at the High Court against two publicans on grounds they acted negligently in serving alcoholic drinks to an elderly man and not preventing him then driving a car.
The man died, along with a woman, shortly afterwards in a horrific road crash.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0311/1224266045829.html

You can sue someone for professional negligence - i.e. licensing you to do something which is harmful.

thebigbiffo

i like it, but the states have the right idea though in terms of how it's presented. MJ is a very cheap and effective treatment for many different ailments, studies are proving this to be the case...if the focus was on the health BENEFITS of the individiual having the right to use it (not many people will argue when a cancer patient is telling them it's helping their condition), then the PR/anti-full prohibition battle would be won. we can all go to our doctors then complaining of stress and get our 'medicine'. it's not ideal for the rec smoker, but it's the only winnable argument for some type of regulation that i can see.

thebigbiffo

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

CONS - part two

Person with said dope card ends up injured, ill or moves onto more harmful substances. Sues Dr for granting dope card. Dr will take no more part, nor will other Dr's.

Scheme collapses ... Joe Duffy ... AH threads ...

this is a fair point, but not something that will damage the whole argument. lets say doctor prescribes/says your in good condition to take this drug and you end up:

1 injured: your not supposed to drive, operate machinery etc etc taking many forms of prescription drugs but you can't sue the doctor if you do
2 ill: if i wasn't aware i was allergic to penicillin and told a doc i wasn't, they end up ill, ya cant sue thedoc. you can have a bad rection as it is to many types of drugs
3 moves onto hamful substances: plenty of people addicted to anything from anti-depressants to sleeping pills who are cut off by doc, they move onto the black market for similar drugs..again, you dont sue the doctor.

Banned Account

I see where you're trying to go here, but the argument has a flaw. In the case of prescription medicine, there is a balance between the good of the medicine prescribed and the possible side effects.

If the doctor can show that the potential good from taking the prescription out weighs the potential harm of not having it (or the side effects it may cause) then there is no cause of action likely.

The stumbling block in the instant case is that it would be hard to prove that there was a medicinal advantage to be gained by the granting of a card save in certain cases regarding MJ - in this case, you would need an underlying condition.

silliegillie

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

I see where you're trying to go here, but the argument has a flaw. In the case of prescription medicine, there is a balance between the good of the medicine prescribed and the possible side effects.

If the doctor can show that the potential good from taking the prescription out weighs the potential harm of not having it (or the side effects it may cause) then there is no cause of action likely.

The stumbling block in the instant case is that it would be hard to prove that there was a medicinal advantage to be gained by the granting of a card save in certain cases regarding MJ - in this case, you would need an underlying condition.

Maybe I have been looking at the Doctors involvement in this from the wrong angle. I do think in order for society in general to accept the legalisation some type of medical advise needs to be given to people. I know you don't need any medical for alcohol consumption and my personal choice would be for Marijuana to be treated the same, this idea of medical involvement comes from the perspective of satisfying the nay sayers (although not everyone will be satisfied)who need to control everything. HAs anybody any ideas on how this can be achieved ?

ScumLord

I'd like to see it fully legalised and treated similar to weed in Netherlands. Their system is tried and proven.

But of course the parents will be up in arms. It's really the parents that fear everything that you have to appease. If weed was only available through a club that required membership and you had to be over 18 to join the club.

The club could be bared from advertising and showing external signs. It would be like entering a snooker club.

silliegillie

ScumLord wrote: »

I'd like to see it fully legalised and treated similar to weed in Netherlands. Their system is tried and proven.

But of course the parents will be up in arms. It's really the parents that fear everything that you have to appease. If weed was only available through a club that required membership and you had to be over 18 to join the club.

The club could be bared from advertising and showing external signs. It would be like entering a snooker club.

A Much easier option

starbelgrade

ScumLord wrote: »

If weed was only available through a club that required membership and you had to be over 18 to join the club.

The club could be bared from advertising and showing external signs. It would be like entering a snooker club.

That'd be class - especially if they had lockers where you could pick up your smoking jacket, pipe & slippers on the way in.

Plus, they'd have to serve tea, coffee & scones.

Cheap Thrills!

Mmmmm cake!

ScumLord

starbelgrade wrote: »

Plus, they'd have to serve tea, coffee & scones.

Actually the other thing I'd love to see is a cannabis restaurant. Basically a standard restaurant but the starters can be made to have weed in them. By the time dinner arrives you have the munchies and will probably order 5 or 6 deserts. It could possibly be the best business model ever, it's a guaranteed money maker.

Indubitable

ScumLord wrote: »

Actually the other thing I'd love to see is a cannabis restaurant. Basically a standard restaurant but the starters can be made to have weed in them. By the time dinner arrives you have the munchies and will probably order 5 or 6 deserts. It could possibly be the best business model ever, it's a guaranteed money maker.

The customers would be broke if they went there regularly

Wetbench4

I think the age limits should be over 21 or over 23, so as to keep parents happy(i'm a parent myself).
And I'd only agree with weed being legalised, none of the other drugs the op was referring too.
I think the comments about people who might go on to harder drugs, just because they are allowed have a few joints, are rubbish. Its never been proven as a gateway drug, and if it has i'd like to see the link.
I think the pros of weed far outweigh the cons.

ScumLord

Wetbench4 wrote: »

I think the age limits should be over 21 or over 23, so as to keep parents happy(i'm a parent myself).
And I'd only agree with weed being legalised, none of the other drugs the op was referring too.
I think the comments about people who might go on to harder drugs, just because they are allowed have a few joints, are rubbish. Its never been proven as a gateway drug, and if it has i'd like to see the link.
I think the pros of weed far outweigh the cons.

I don't have a problem with that because it would have no barring on me but I think it may be a mistake to exclude the 18+ it's a rebellious age and I'm sure if all their older friends can do it and their excluded they will do what it takes to get it. It leaves a crack in the door for minor black market sales.

As far as I'm aware most studies show your most at risk of anything bad happening in your early teens so 18 should be ok. It would be best to err on the side of caution and leave it until your over 21 but young adults just won't want to do that and the risks are so small there's little point in trying to stop them.

Uriel.

The same applies with an 18 age limit. You'll have 15 and 16 yr olds looking to get a piece of the action. There'll always be a demand for black Market supply no matter what "reasonable" age you set it.

Personally I think 21 is most appropriate. I also think 21 would be better for supply and consumption. Been over here in the states the last while and I can see a much better attitude and handling of alcohol than at home in Ireland. Most clubs Here are over 18 but you get a wrist band If you are over 21 so you can but alcohol.

The under 21s seem to have as just a good a time. I've seen no trouble either. The same at the numerous house parties I've been at. Yeah the under 21s drink of course but overall people have a much more sensible approach to alcohol.

I think those extra 3 yrs makes all the difference. I know there is also the Irish cultural factor aswell.

If dope is to legalised I think it should be set at a 21 limit. I imagine it would be difficult to increase the alcohol age limit. But with dope get it right from the start I say

ScumLord

Uriel. wrote: »

The same applies with an 18 age limit. You'll have 15 and 16 yr olds looking to get a piece of the action. There'll always be a demand for black Market supply no matter what "reasonable" age you set it.

Personally I think 21 is most appropriate. I also think 21 would be better for supply and consumption. Been over here in the states the last while and I can see a much better attitude and handling of alcohol than at home in Ireland. Most clubs Here are over 18 but you get a wrist band If you are over 21 so you can but alcohol.

The under 21s seem to have as just a good a time. I've seen no trouble either. The same at the numerous house parties I've been at. Yeah the under 21s drink of course but overall people have a much more sensible approach to alcohol.

I think those extra 3 yrs makes all the difference. I know there is also the Irish cultural factor aswell.

If dope is to legalised I think it should be set at a 21 limit. I imagine it would be difficult to increase the alcohol age limit. But with dope get it right from the start I say

It probably would happen that way and like I said I'd be fine with that.

There is a difference between 12-16 and 18-21, one group will still be deep in education whereas the over 18 are likely to be working, paying taxes and voting. They're also not in the same risk bracket as those younger teens.

That's just my two cents though, I think the Americans are over cautious when it comes to any drugs. I have no interest in being more like them and would rather find the balance that other European countries have managed to find.

But the over 21 argument is very valid and I wouldn't protest to much if that was part of the deal.

silliegillie

The Age thing is a fair argument, But in this Country you are Deemed responsible for your own actions and an Adult at 18. Unless that Law is changed I think 18 will have to be the legal age limit, If it ever does become legal Heres Hoping