(UK) Cumbria massacre discussion. (See mod note post 1)

dr.bollocko

A gunman killed at least 12 people in a rampage through quiet towns in and around the scenic Lake District of northwest England on Wednesday in Britain's worst shooting spree for 14 years.

Investigations into what made a taxi driver shoot 12 people dead in Cumbria may centre on a family row, reports suggest.

Derrick Bird, 52, embarked on a rampage that began near Whitehaven and ended when he turned a gun on himself.

It has been reported he may have been involved in a dispute over a will, and police have confirmed solicitor Kevin Commons is among the dead.

Eleven people were injured as he drove around shooting indiscriminately.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/england/10222188.stm
http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/12-dead-in-uk-killing-spree-460161.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE6512T320100602

As a result of the offense caused by yesterday's thread we will not be re-opening it. Please use this thread for discussion of this tragedy. No jokes. Report any posts which cross the line and we will deal with them.
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giggsy664

Terrible thing to happen. Seriously, how do you get motivation to go on a killing spree like that?

Like something out of GTA, complete mental behaviour.

TanG411

Although I don't know of his condition, I can only assume he had lived with depression, and he had to take his anger out. That's not to say I feel sorry for him or anything. But, depression can really mess with your head.

karma_

I think the worst thing, from the families point of view is the scumbag took his own life and leaves no one to punish.

Trashbat

I believe one of the victims was also a taxi driver. Have any reports surfaced over wether they knew each other?

I saw some nonsense on the red tops this morning about him reacting to being taunted, but I would not like to comment on speculation.

Truly horrible for all those involved.

Wazdakka

giggsy664 wrote: »

Terrible thing to happen. Seriously, how do you get motivation to go on a killing spree like that?

<snip>

Offy

Id love to know the full details of the will. Ive heard of people killing family members over wills here in Ireland before but Ive never heard of such a rampage. I wonder what really happened in his head to drive him to such an act.

pablomakaveli

There was talk that he was having trouble with one of the taxi drivers he killed as well but i suppose all these reasons being given in the media are just specualtion at the moment. We probably won't get a clearer picture for a few days yet.

WindSock

Did he shoot his twin too?

foxshooter243

seems there was a dispute between him and a taxi driver , alongside the fact that his mothers will was prepared in favour of his brother, his mother seemingly is dying of cancer. These events caused him to lash out, killing the taxi driver, the solicitor who prepared the will, and his twin brother, before driving off to kill more people, reports on the radio this morning claim he was making his way to a holiday park when he crashed the car and then made off into a wood where he shot himself.
This is my reading of it so far from listening to news and radio reports..a terrible tragedy:(

Dozen Wicked Words

A terrible day for Cumbria, and for all those who lost loved ones. While I know the need to fill 24 hour news channels means some guesswork, I think in events like this, with loss of life, perhaps they should step back, confirm facts and show more respect to those who died. I think flashing up photos of victims less than 12 hours after the event is not really required to explain the story.

They also reported yesterday that Mr Birds mother was killed by him, when today, it is reported she dying from Cancer.


RIP

PeterIanStaker

This is a tragic event and the sad thing is the 24hr news media "love" these events, becaus thay can spin them out for a few days. I really think they should afford due respect to the victim's families - but that wont happen. These incidents, like the ones that occur Stateside, show the invasive nature of the media, I feel they sometimes forget that people died in tragic and violent circumstances.

General Zod

It's a rare occurence, but I can't even think of any humour surrponding this. It's just messed up.

syklops

Has it been reported yet what kind of weapon he used? I have heard some say it was a shotgun. I have also heard someone say it was a sniper rifle. Is there anything concrete?

General Zod

syklops wrote: »

Has it been reported yet what kind of weapon he used? I have heard some say it was a shotgun. I have also heard someone say it was a sniper rifle. Is there anything concrete?

I've read it was a single barrel shotgun with a telescopic sight, which is odd, but might make people think it was a rifle of some kind.

Fratton Fred

syklops wrote: »

Has it been reported yet what kind of weapon he used? I have heard some say it was a shotgun. I have also heard someone say it was a sniper rifle. Is there anything concrete?

They have "Recovered" a .22 rifle and a shotgun, both of which are "Similar" to ones he held a licence/Certificate for.

dlofnep

I know a lad from the area. He said the fella was spot on, and it was a complete shock. It was apparently over a will.

IvyTheTerrible

dlofnep wrote: »

I know a lad from the area. He said the fella was spot on, and it was a complete shock. It was apparently over a will.

Well there was obviously some screw loose somewhere ready to blow if he went on such a spree.

Just heard a guy on RTE describing seeing Bird running off and then finding an injured woman who then died in his arms, must be terrible to have to witness something like that.

amacachi

Between Sky and the papers they've come up with a load of different "reasons" which may have been to blame. One of the tabloids said it was to do with "sex jibes" or something.:rolleyes:

Tragic set of circumstances, one of the dead is a brother of Harlequins Rugby League, I'd be surprised if many in/from the area haven't been affected by it all.

seamus

By all accounts, "spree" killings like this are the result of some kind of pent-up anger being left to stagnate for years.

Going by some of the reports, I'd hazard a guess that this guy had been unlucky in life - no relationship, playing second fiddle within the family to his brother and just generally not having a good time of it. When the will came about being more favourable to his brother (who presumably had been getting all the goodwill for their entire lives), Bird snapped and decided that the world hated him and needed to be punished.

Like many spree killers, he didn't kill any children, which indicates that he believed that other adults (i.e. "the world") were somehow guilty of the life he had been forced to endure, but children obviously were innocent of this, being children.

You can imagine the shock. These are small, peaceful rural areas. It would be the equivalent of driving through the Gaeltacht picking off people at random.

WindSock

seamus wrote: »

Like many spree killers, he didn't kill any children, which indicates that he believed that other adults (i.e. "the world") were somehow guilty of the life he had been forced to endure, but children obviously were innocent of this, being children.

What was the Dunblane Massacre about? They were all kids though.

seamus

WindSock wrote: »

What was the Dunblane Massacre about? They were all kids though.

I imagine in that freak's case, he wanted to get back at the community/the parents who had shunned him as a paedophile by murdering their children.

enda1

seamus wrote: »

Like many spree killers, he didn't kill any children, which indicates that he believed that other adults (i.e. "the world") were somehow guilty of the life he had been forced to endure, but children obviously were innocent of this, being children.

Or maybe the children are in school, or he didn't encounter any "suitable" targets.

Horrible situation.

Hereditary issues can cause such enormous issues!
Can make you see some sense in the French inheritance law whereby the estate must be split evenly between all siblings (for all marriages) and none can be un-willed.

seamus

enda1 wrote: »

Or maybe the children are in school, or he didn't encounter any "suitable" targets.

Possible, though reports say that two teenage girls saw him gun down one man, then he looked straight at them before moving on. That could just be whatever was going through his head at the time though.

WindSock

Says that he was on a rampage for 5 hours. That's an awful long time to not get caught. He was hardly a criminal mastermind.

Misty Chaos

This is a terrible thing to happen.

I really don't know what else to say.

PeterIanStaker

Fratton Fred wrote: »

They have "Recovered" a .22 rifle and a shotgun, both of which are "Similar" to ones he held a licence/Certificate for.

"Mr Bird produced two legally-owned guns, believed to be a .22 rifle with telescopic sight and a shotgun," - RTÉ news http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0603/cumbria.html.
More than likely the same weapons sadly. What are the gun laws like in the UK?

syklops

Fratton Fred wrote: »

They have "Recovered" a .22 rifle and a shotgun, both of which are "Similar" to ones he held a licence/Certificate for.

Most likely the .22 was the one with the scope.

As for the Dunblane Massacre, the killer, Thomas Hamilton, had been a scout leader until he ws kicked out because of complaints made by boys in hsi troop. He later tried to start a club for young boys but that was knocked on its head. He ran a shop but because of rumours and suspicions he went out of business, and his life went down hill. He probably thought if those boys hadn't complained his life would still be hunk dory and that they should be punished.

Its just a theory. We often try to look for rational agenda when we see chaos and irrationality like Dunblane and Cumbria. We ask why? Why did he do it, but there probably is no answer. I would bet that if he was still alive and people asked him why he did it he would struggle to give a good answer.

m@cc@

dr.bollocko wrote: »

As a result of the offense caused by yesterday's thread we will not be re-opening it. Please use this thread for discussion of this tragedy. No jokes.

AH at it's worst that this needs to be said.

karma_ wrote: »

I think the worst thing, from the families point of view is the scumbag took his own life and leaves no one to punish.

I don't agree with this sensationalist BS. The guy went to seek mental help but was turned away. He clearly was not in a right state of mind to perform such an atrocity. I'm not saying he deserves to be absolved of blame but he is a victim as well.

syklops

m@cc@ wrote: »

AH at it's worst that this needs to be said.

There really is something rotten in the state of AH.

I don't agree with this sensationalist BS. The guy went to seek mental help but was turned away. He clearly was not in a right state of mind to perform such an atrocity. I'm not saying he deserves to be absolved of blame but he is a victim as well.

This is the unfortunate reality. The human psyche is so frail, and when it needs help, it should get it. If someone has a heart attack at 2am in the morning, an ambulance is dispatched immediately. If someone suffers a breakdown outside of 9-5 they have to wait until the next day for help or treatment. I think for a lot of people its too late. I wonder how many suicides a year could be prevented if the person could get help straight away.

The guy who killed hiimself and i think his ex-girlfriends boyfriend(I cant remember his name but his parents were on the late late), would be a good example. From what I remember from the story he was depressed and went to the doctors for help. They gave him anti-depressants, and told him to come back in a few days(and then probably charged him 50 euro). In the meantime he killed himself and another person.

Did you know one of the possible side-effects of anti-depressants is depression? Says it right on the paper inside.

Cianan2

So are all the victims related to feuds that the man had, or are there any random people as well?

syklops

Cianan2 wrote: »

So are all the victims related to feuds that the man had, or are there any random people as well?

I think most were just random people, but in a town as small as that everyone who died had a relative or friend who knew the killer.

brummytom

Cianan2 wrote: »

So are all the victims related to feuds that the man had, or are there any random people as well?

BBC were saying a few of them were targeted - a colleague he'd argued with, his brother, family's solicitor (possibly some of the others); but that the rest were random.


It's terrible that Bird is the sole source of blame when, like others said, he sought help and was ignored.

WindSock

What happened with his mother, is she still alive?

Caoimhín

WindSock wrote: »

What happened with his mother, is she still alive?

It was over her will, so i shall hazard a guess here..

WindSock

Caoimhín wrote: »

It was over her will, so i shall hazard a guess here..

Oh right.

It wasn't me!

AFAIK she's still alive and dying of cancer. The will is the issue though, or among them.