What's the most important technique to master first?

JuneBug29

Eq, reverb, compression, etc? And anything else you think is a must and any links to help would be great.

TelePaul

Tracking is way more important than any of these things. You may have heard the phrase 'Fix it in the mix'; don't try to do this. Focus on tracking properly and your woes will be lessened considerably.

madtheory

True! Forget about the tinternet if you want to learn "techniques" from scratch. Better to get Mixing with your Mind it's a great book. In fact, half of it is about tracking...

MilanPan!c

Tracking, yes, but also knowing what you're trying to do before you start... Nothin worse for artist and engineer and producer than making it up as you go...

Not always feasible, but unless you're Eno and they're a U2, don't do it.

So learning to listen to a band/artist and disect what works and why and what you can do to accentuate those things/limit the less successful ideas.

I know that's not exactly a teachable technique, but it's v important and something most recording books/schools seem to ignore.

But really yes the answer is tracking.

JuneBug29

TelePaul wrote: »

Tracking is way more important than any of these things. You may have heard the phrase 'Fix it in the mix'; don't try to do this. Focus on tracking properly and your woes will be lessened considerably.

Anyone have any good links on how to track correctly? Good techniques, things to avoid? Or any tips yourselves?

Also whats the best term to enter into google to find out about tracking tips? It's one of those searches that is awkward cause you're gonna find loads of stuff you don't want. Audio tracking brings up audio trackers etc

studiorat

Microphone technique, best jut experiment and take note of what you do and compare the results.

PMI

Musical knowledge of how instruments, keys, chords and arrangements can compliment each other

Then tracking.... O and come back in 5 years or so and I will tell ya stage 2.

TelePaul

JuneBug29 wrote: »

Anyone have any good links on how to track correctly? Good techniques, things to avoid? Or any tips yourselves?

Also whats the best term to enter into google to find out about tracking tips? It's one of those searches that is awkward cause you're gonna find loads of stuff you don't want. Audio tracking brings up audio trackers etc

Tracking may be thought of as the capturing of an audio source and is therefore contingent on mic type and placement, metering (or the recorded volume of the sound source), the recording environment and it's properties and on a more esoteric level, the nature of the performance to be captured.

As you can probably imagine, there's no quick-fix or best practice - there are too many variables at play. Why don't you tell us exactly what it is you're trying to record and we'll be in a better position to help.

PMI

O yeah and phase Phase and more Phase....

JuneBug29

TelePaul wrote: »

Why don't you tell us exactly what it is you're trying to record and we'll be in a better position to help.

My set up is 2 guitars, bass and programmed drum tracks. I programme in drum beats and export each section of the drums onto separate tracks. I then record bass (usually clean although i have been using light distortion lately). Then i lay down the guitar parts using different guitars and settings.

The stuff i do is mostly rock/stoner. I would use distortion most of the time. I use an SM57 for both guitar and bass amps (i know not best for a bass amp but i'm a student :P). I'm recording with 12 inch speakers and usually go for about half way between the cone and the edge of the speaker as the centre can be a bit harsh.

I usually do spend awhile trying to get a good sound at source but i usually end up with a sound that is a bit muddier than i would like. I have tried recording with less distortion but i still find that my instruments are clashing.

TelePaul

JuneBug29 wrote: »

My set up is 2 guitars, bass and programmed drum tracks. I programme in drum beats and export each section of the drums onto separate tracks. I then record bass (usually clean although i have been using light distortion lately). Then i lay down the guitar parts using different guitars and settings.

The stuff i do is mostly rock/stoner. I would use distortion most of the time. I use an SM57 for both guitar and bass amps (i know not best for a bass amp but i'm a student :P). I'm recording with 12 inch speakers and usually go for about half way between the cone and the edge of the speaker as the centre can be a bit harsh.

I usually do spend awhile trying to get a good sound at source but i usually end up with a sound that is a bit muddier than i would like. I have tried recording with less distortion but i still find that my instruments are clashing.

That clarifies things somewhat. This is probably a comparatively simple setup, at least with regard to tracking. Just make sure you peak at between -18 and -12 dbs on the way in. Personally, I find electric guitars easiest to record. The SM57 is a good mic for the guitars, and positioning is largely a matter of taste. As it's a dynamic, it wont pick up undesirable reflections like a condensor can. I'd be hesitant to mic a bass with a 57 - in certain instances I'd be hesitant to mic a bass amp at all. You should be able to achieve a decent sound by D.I'ing and applying some judicious processing...I'd also go easy on the bass distortion.

Taking this issue to it's logical conclusion, and assuming your approach to tracking checks out, the next thing to look at is EQ. Cutting and boosting certain frequencies will help your mix to gel better - congrats, you've graduated from TelePaul's school of tracking and have moved on to TelePaul's school of mixing. A sound clip would be helpful in providing more specific info.

woodsdenis

JuneBug29 wrote: »

Eq, reverb, compression, etc? And anything else you think is a must and any links to help would be great.

Listening

JuneBug29

TelePaul wrote: »

That clarifies things somewhat. This is probably a comparatively simple setup, at least with regard to tracking. Just make sure you peak at between -18 and -12 dbs on the way in. Personally, I find electric guitars easiest to record. The SM57 is a good mic for the guitars, and positioning is largely a matter of taste. As it's a dynamic, it wont pick up undesirable reflections like a condensor can. I'd be hesitant to mic a bass with a 57 - in certain instances I'd be hesitant to mic a bass amp at all. You should be able to achieve a decent sound by D.I'ing and applying some judicious processing...I'd also go easy on the bass distortion.

Taking this issue to it's logical conclusion, and assuming your approach to tracking checks out, the next thing to look at is EQ. Cutting and boosting certain frequencies will help your mix to gel better - congrats, you've graduated from TelePaul's school of tracking and have moved on to TelePaul's school of mixing. A sound clip would be helpful in providing more specific info.

Cheers for the help. I have tried DI'ing the bass. I have a bass amp modeler as well that i have tried using. Just been trying using different things. What circumstances is it that you would avoid mic'ing a bass amp in? Also do you know of any decent budget mics for a bass amp if any exist or would i have to fork out for a suitable one?

I have been looking in EQ'ing a lot. Have some freq charts printed up that i have been referencing as i go along and have been trying to only make cuts. Do you have tips on how to pull instruments apart? Any standard things you look at first when you sit down with a track?

Neurojazz

JuneBug29 wrote: »

Cheers for the help. I have tried DI'ing the bass. I have a bass amp modeler as well that i have tried using. Just been trying using different things. What circumstances is it that you would avoid mic'ing a bass amp in? Also do you know of any decent budget mics for a bass amp if any exist or would i have to fork out for a suitable one?

I have been looking in EQ'ing a lot. Have some freq charts printed up that i have been referencing as i go along and have been trying to only make cuts. Do you have tips on how to pull instruments apart? Any standard things you look at first when you sit down with a track?

Didn't Dav Nagle get something for bass that was awesome?

Rockshamrover

JuneBug29 wrote: »

Cheers for the help. I have tried DI'ing the bass. I have a bass amp modeler as well that i have tried using. Just been trying using different things. What circumstances is it that you would avoid mic'ing a bass amp in? Also do you know of any decent budget mics for a bass amp if any exist or would i have to fork out for a suitable one?

I have been looking in EQ'ing a lot. Have some freq charts printed up that i have been referencing as i go along and have been trying to only make cuts. Do you have tips on how to pull instruments apart? Any standard things you look at first when you sit down with a track?

There's lots of useful stuff in this link. Some of them are fairly old but still of use.

http://www.theprojectstudiohandbook.com/articles12.htm

tweeky

woodsdenis wrote: »

Listening

Damn, you beat me to it! and it doesn't cost a penny.

Rockshamrover

The fine art of borrowing stuff you can't afford.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

Neurojazz wrote: »

Didn't Dav Nagle get something for bass that was awesome?

a bass player ? ;):pac::pac:

in any case mixing with your mind is a great book for organic and soulful recording
i bought it , and the writer also answers emails if you ask him stuff.

my first lesson would be - get your room and monitoring right - and the rest is a lot easier.

PaulBrewer

DaDumTish wrote: »

a bass player ? ;):pac::pac:

in any case mixing with your mind is a great book

My new book 'Listening with yer Lugs' will be out in Hard Back soon.

Rockshamrover

PaulBrewer wrote: »

My new book 'Listening with yer Lugs' will be out in Hard Back soon.

Is that the follow up to "Ears pierced while you wait"?

PaulBrewer

Rockshamrover wrote: »

Is that the follow up to "Ears pierced while you wait"?

No that's a follow up to -

'Your Band is shyt and always will be ...' paperback only.

Rockshamrover

PaulBrewer wrote: »

No that's a follow up to -

'Your Band is shyt and always will be ...' paperback only.

Is it an autobiography?:D

TelePaul

Lads, the chap seems genuinely interested and all the responses - my own include d- have been a bit on the glib side. Maybe we should get back OT.

PaulBrewer

TelePaul wrote: »

Lads, the chap seems genuinely interested and all the responses - my own include d- have been a bit on the glib side. Maybe we should get back OT.

Fair point TP, I blame Rock for goading me ...

Rockshamrover

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Fair point TP, I blame Rock for goading me ...

Sorry Paul:)

I thought we were just having a laugh.

Apologies.

Rock.

TelePaul

Sorry lads, you're right, I know it was all a bit of fun. It's just that the chap seems to be getting to grips with the this for the first time.

jtsuited

most important technique to master first?????

learning how to deal with the boards music production forum regulars (myself included).:p

Rockshamrover

jtsuited wrote: »

most important technique to master first?????

learning how to deal with the boards music production forum regulars (myself included).:p

Ha ha, very true.

And if you can master that you'll conquer the world:D

PaulBrewer

jtsuited wrote: »

most important technique to master first?????

learning how to deal with the boards music production forum regulars (myself included).:p

Or ignore them !

DamagedTrax

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Or ignore them !

johnnylakes

+1 Positioning of the ould microphones

JuneBug29

Can't believe i got 30 replies and most of them (bar telepaul, thank you) weren't very helpful. Any links anyone please? Thank you.

Rockshamrover

Can't believe i got 30 replies and most of them (bar telepaul, thank you) weren't very helpful. Any links anyone please? Thank you.



I had a read through the thread and the following things were mentioned.

Tracking
Learning to listen
Microphone technique
Music theory
Borrowing the good stuff
Phase
EQ/mix tips (with a link)
Book suggestions
Mic positioning.

You should go off and research these yourself, maybe start with the book suggested by Madtheory, Mixing with your mind.

There are no shortcuts unfortunately which is why the final technique you'll need to master is patience.

madtheory

Rockshamrover wrote: »

There are no shortcuts unfortunately which is why the final technique you'll need to master is patience.

And there are some things that you cannot learn on the tinternet.