Rural house design

liamolaighin

Hi I am at a standstill at the moment with planning. My planner wants me to reduce the bulk and size of a 2 storey house design in rural Cork. My site is 1/4 of a mile back off a any main road and is barely visable from anywhere in surroundings. Current house design is flat fronted, hip roofed 2 storey house with sunroom (3000 sq/feet) I am in the enviable position i suppose of getting a site on my home farm, and therefore I'd like to build as modern, nice looking, efficient and basically cool house I can granted my savings. My request is basically can people post links to photos/drawings of houses they think I might be allowed to build which are all of the above.....especially cool!.

I like the idea of lots of glass etc but essentially I want the house to look really well on the outside. I dont see why I should have to build a really plain looking house,, featureless, because the current planner wants me to. There are lots of nicer, large houses in my part of the country which have been designed and built in the past 5 years. And when it came to rural planning guidelines by the way.....the planner felt that they in the planning office are trying to get away from them at the moment...i.e in favour of what they decide i should have. They were my only guide for drawing up plans and thats what the planner comes out with...impossible.

All help and ideas appreciated

Jimbo

Have you looked at the idea of a wing off the rear of the house to allow you to reduce the bulk of the main body? Or if the front elevation is flat fronted, maybe break it up and introduce steps.

Regardless of what the planner says, the Cork Rural Design Guidelines is very comprehensive and it will give you ideas on how to reduce tha apparent bulk of the houe without sacrificing floor area.

davidoco

liamolaighin wrote: »

There are lots of nicer, large houses in my part of the country which have been designed and built in the past 5 years. And when it came to rural planning guidelines by the way.....the planner felt that they in the planning office are trying to get away from them at the moment.

The Cork Rural Planning Guide is not there for the craic. Have you see it? www.corkcoco.ie/co/pdf/98163294.pd

liamolaighin wrote: »

....the planner felt that they in the planning office are trying to get away from them at the moment.

They want to try and avoid granting permission for houses like these

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=483935
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=532990
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=460754
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=359711
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=533251
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=525969
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=519172
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=499138

which IMO are a blight on the landscape and (in 20 years or less) will be looked upon the same way we look at 70s bungalows now. Obviously you may think some of them look "cool" and it can be frustrating that not everyone (especially) planners share your point of view.

JuniorB

See attached for good sample of narrow span.... ish type which is all the vogue in rural design..

rayjdav

+1 to the Cork Rural Design Guide. Makes a lot of sense if you study it.
Love the "helicoptor bungalow" reference in there. So true.
When doing mine planner tried to get me to do something, insisting I reference this, which I was doing with what I had proposed. Referenced the page and got it:)
Also, point to remember with planner is that they are there to implement policy and not opinion. This, I reminded the planner? dealing with mine. Did'nt go down too well but hey, I'm happy now.

Leadership

Just finishing a rural build in Cork and had some fun with the planners as we didnt want box house. We went with a fairly traditional front with lots of glass at the rear (within reason) plus the house is L shaped so its a little more interesting.

The photos a quite out of date now

http://grianan.blogspot.com/

liamolaighin

These ideas are exactly what i wanted to hear and see thanks. In case anyone thinks I have gone away from the rural guidelines I actually complied completely with them. My house design at present is not extravagant, in fact its extremely plain which was dissappointing.

My problem is with the process. Im left guessing with my architect what the planner is going to approve even though we have stuck by the guidelines and kept the design as cloose to loocal houses as possible. Also it's not a visable site and I have no interest in designing something which will be a future blight on the landscape. I'd like a well designed modern house design, that will stand the test of time inside and out.

Keep the ideas coming. Thanks

rayjdav

Liam
You dont say exactly what stage your at? Design/Pre-Planning:rolleyes:/RFI? I would strongly advise, as I always do, get your local TD/Councilor involved and get him/her to go straight to the SEP and not the planner. Get all minutes of said meeting in writing and then, progress your application with this attached.
If it's rural as you say, have all your supporting docs ready to go, and just submit design. You will be at this process indefinitly if you just dont take control. At the end, another planner will be assigned and you will be back to square one. Always be ready though to have an acceptable (to you) Plan B in the ass pocket, just in case alterations required.
Also, go through the council ePlan and see what was granted relativly recently that may be of similar to your idea. As said, he is there to implement policy and NOT opinion, imho. The SEP will give you policy direct.

Leadership

rayjdav wrote: »

I would strongly advise, as I always do, get your local TD/Councilor involved and get him/her to go straight to the SEP and not the planner.

We got the local TD involved as well and found out that the reason our planning was tough to get through is the amount of vacant housing in the area from "ghost" developments.

dfader

I have to agree with Davidoco here. I am an engineer based in sligo and have done planning applications here and in the midlands when i worked there.

The country is blighted with poor house design and bad planning. I use Corks rural house design manual all the time and think its very good.

When i was doing planning applications it frustrated me that my local authority does not have a manual like this. When a client comes to me requesting the usual bulky house design that we get in these house plan type books and see all over the country I could produce it and say you will not get planning if you do not comply with this. These house designs look bad as soon as they are are built never mind in 20 years. As it is its a bit bemusing when i produce Corks manual and say we need to comply with this.

I have even brought Corks manual into planning meetings here, to which the planner was delighted we were complying with. Does anyone know why Sligo coco and some other coco's do not have a manual like this rather than the adhoc way it is now.

Liam, you can achieve a better looking house which will have the floor area you require and stand the test of time visually by going L or T shaped. Use traditional design mixed with modern architecture if desired. This shape will also help you maximise solar gains into your main living areas if orientated correctly. Avoid designs like davidoco posted above and things like mock georgian features, octagonal bay windows, fancy facia boards etc.

sydthebeat

dfader wrote: »

........ Does anyone know why Sligo coco and some other coco's do not have a manual like this rather than the adhoc way it is now.

.............

speaking from experience in laoois, the county planners prepared a design document very similar to teh cork document..

it was put before the chamber of council members and guess what, they voted NOT to implement it.

No reason was required. A simple vote was cast and the idiot councillors, who should have no hand act or part in planning, turned down an incredibly useful and pertinent document.

The planners dont care, they still will implement their own "views".. however, us as agents do not have a council policy document to point to when the inevitable client comes in looking for their 'southfork'...

liamolaighin

Davidoco I agree with you and all the others about the house design. I dont want a house with any of those features, such as were in the links you posted. I really don't. I have had a preplanning meeting, I've applied and basically although my house now complies with regulations, the planner is not happy with it. Which is not the end of the world...

I had my local counciller and architect at the meeting with me. They are also baffled at the letter I recieved regarding my application but regardless I am currently trying to get in contact with a senior planner before I move on any further. My pre-planning was Aug last year, planning letter issued March this year and nothings changed since. Problems between local government and planning officials have been the latest stumbling block for my planning! i.e they wont talk to each other at the moment#

What I initially wanted to achieve with this post was not to rant on about planning in rural cork. What I really want is ideas in the form of pictures or plans or drawings of houses being built in rural Ireland at the moment that I might take something from. I think I will have to reapply regardless in order to get my planning so I'd love to see whats nice out there that people have seen. If youve seen something in your locality thats really nice, I'd love to see it because I find it really hard to put my own creative stamp on the plans based on the rural guidelines.

liamolaighin

JuniorB wrote: »

See attached for good sample of narrow span.... ish type which is all the vogue in rural design..

Thats actually the line the planner is trying to get me to go i think. Break the ridge, break up into smaller parts. I like it though i suppose the pitfall is the greater cost of construction. do you mind me asking if this is your own house, or if not where you came across the drawing. i'd love to see the floorplan

JuniorB

PM sent..

liamolaighin

thats actually a super site and i like your floor plans. How big is it? Its really gettin me thinking whether #i should go break up the house now and give it more charachter that way - glass etc

ECO_Mental

rayjdav wrote: »

Liam
I would strongly advise, as I always do, get your local TD/Councillor involved and get him/her to go straight to the SEP and not the planner.

This is why the country is F**ked up.... by people going to the TD's & councillors and trying to bully decent people who are trying to do the right thing and say no you can’t put 100 houses in that village that’s 30 miles from any town or put that fake Georgian south fork mansion on that crest of a hill.

I am not saying that planners get it right all the time but if you go to Tuscany there is no chance in hell you would ever be able to put up a 7 bed Georgian dormer or whatever any where you want because you think its nice at the time. Houses have to fit into the landscape and their surroundings, Georgian houses look great in Dublin, those chalets in the alps look great ONLY there and the narrow plan traditional Irish cottage looks great ONLY in Ireland. And do you know what? that’s what I like to see when I visit other countries it’s their own particular house styles. But I wouldn't like to build a ski chalet in Kenmare? You would be laughed at.

Forget about politicians they would sell their own mother and the only thing they care about is getting your vote so they can still stay on the expenses gravy train.

The Cork Rural design guide is great and you can still be original in your design, it might take a bit of extra time to convince the planners but if you get a proper Arch who appreciates and understands traditional design your house will stand the test of time. Also people will not be saying in 5 years time how the hell did he manage to get planning there with that monstrosity.

Oh Yeah he the local TD to get it for him.

archtech

Contrary to what some joe public think, the rural design guidelines (Cork and others) allow plenty of scope for well designed houses. There's loads of scope within most of the guidelines to design, interesting houses capable of addressing the individuals needs, look well and fit into the landscape.

In many instances poor site selection, is the reason, why a particular house design meets opposition from a planner.Not the house type itself.

liamolaighin

It'd be great if anyone knows of any architects wwho have an online portfolio that includes some houses that would fulfill the current guidelines if you could reply with the link or pm the link to me. The few that I already recieved in this post are excellent to give me a point to redesign my house. Any pics of designs that are modern, have charachter and are not huge in bulk would be fantastic

RKQ

No offense but "pick a plan" won't work!

The idea of the design Guidelines is that the new house design follows certain ideas to create a simple design based on traditional principles - this does not mean copying a mock "Georgian" design or "Gothic Victorian" cottage.

Ideally you should meet an experienced Designer, visit the site and base the design on your requirements, your unique site - sun aspect / views and site levels and your budget.

Photos, books of plans, the Guielines etc are fine for ideas, a starting point or just to understand what you like. But its a waste of your time and your money to pick a design and build it just because it was granted permission in Cork.

Hope it all works out for you. Good luck.:)

liamolaighin

That is exactly what I am going to be doing, I just need to go right back to basics and gather some ideas i can discuss with my architect when i meet him on site. I'd like to see pictures/plans of houses which have the bulk broken down into smaller pieces to make it less imposing on the landscape. This is the view of my planner based on the plans i submitted first day. The ridgeline needs to be broken but some of the house or all will be 2 storey. I am interested in modern designs which of course will fit the site I am building on. Again the planner has no problem with my site, they just want me to break down the bulk of the house and I am finding it difficult to find examples of this kind of house. Most houses I do find are just rectangular, 2 storey houses. Any pointers in the direction of ideas/pics would be a great starting point for me.

ECO_Mental

Liam,

I was just like you going through loads of arch's web site looking for designs I like. But in the end of the day I didn't show any to my arch all I said to him I want 4 beds, around 2500 sqr ft etc etc, all I did tell him was I wanted a traditional Irish house that looks modern and well designed and will stand the test of time. I also told him I liked the principle of the rural design guide. I let him do all the donkey work after that. I didn't want to lead him down a particular path because you can get two blinkered in that you want a particular house, what you need is a fresh view.

Anyway if your arch is any good this will be meat and two veg for him and you shouldn't even have to tell him. You can see my design on here if you look at a few of my very early posts, it got a good response from the planners at the pre-planning.

PM me if you want contact details of my arch, I'm based in cork too.


Struggling away like a poor farmer
EM

sydthebeat

liamolaighin wrote: »

That is exactly what I am going to be doing, I just need to go right back to basics and gather some ideas i can discuss with my architect when i meet him on site. I'd like to see pictures/plans of houses which have the bulk broken down into smaller pieces to make it less imposing on the landscape. This is the view of my planner based on the plans i submitted first day. The ridgeline needs to be broken but some of the house or all will be 2 storey. I am interested in modern designs which of course will fit the site I am building on. Again the planner has no problem with my site, they just want me to break down the bulk of the house and I am finding it difficult to find examples of this kind of house. Most houses I do find are just rectangular, 2 storey houses. Any pointers in the direction of ideas/pics would be a great starting point for me.

you dont need to give the architect the 'design'.... you only need to give him the brief ie a written, or spoken, list of accommodation required.

its up to him to best arrange this accommodation into a design which satisfies both your brief and the design guidelines.....

as a client you have a responsibility to give as clear and concise a brief as possible, if there specific elements required ie corner bath etc then include it....

do not go to the architect with a sketch or plan print out..... this only offers to stifle the design from the outset..... you need to trust that this architect is able to give you what you want, and beyond.... i mean, thats why you are engaging a professional designer in the first place!!?!?

Leadership

I would not agree with the statements about going to an architect with no ideas for what you want. Maybe I had a bad experience and waqs unlucky with 3 that I tried to use but all 3 who are Cork based responded with "out of the drawer" plans that losly fit the criteria.

Example - We wanted 2500sqft, lots of glass south facing no box shape. One responded with a 2800sqft box home which had most windows east/west. It was clearly a previous design he was trying to pass off.

Poor Uncle Tom

I believe that the site designs the home, we merely define the scale, break up the spaces and lable them.

JuniorB

The whole design process should be an amalgamation of a multitude of ingredients. As was said previously the site and orientation of same will be a large influence on the final design.

I agree with what the OP is doing. He is investigating as much as possible the various aspects that make up a well designed rural house.
It's hard enough for us laymen to follow the rural design guidelines and visualise what each part brings to the final design. The more research you do the more knowledgeable you become and the more you can interact with your designer and more importantly give him/her a better brief.

I'm not sure if you have 'another half' but it's very important to manage expectations on that side too.

At the end of the day you live on the inside of the house, so start from there with your requirements.

And of course don't forget your budget. There are some lovely design features that cost big shillings! There was another thread on this recently.

Best of luck Liam

observer2u

PM sent

cosatron

totally agree with poor uncle tom, the site dictates the size and scale of the house. i think you should get the services of a good architect/architectural technician. Regarding TD getting involved is complete bull, ive been doing planning in Galway for 6 years and never had any problems with comtemporary houses, if the design is well thought out and presented correctly, you shoudn't have a problem.
ive a friend in cork who can help, his a good arch. tech and won't be an exspensive as an architect(i hope).PM if interested

murph226

Where can the Cork Rural Planning Guide be bought?

archtech

murph226 wrote: »

Where can the Cork Rural Planning Guide be bought?

Easons should have them or will be able to get them if they are still in print. I'm sure you can also buy they in the planning Section of Cork County Council. A second edition is now available. you can download it from here

murph226

Just picked up the second edition in Easons thanks!

AMG86

When talking/enaging professionals remember it is you who will pay eventually. You should only have to pay for their professional advice and services not their mistakes. Meet one or two them informally. Discuss with your friends/ others etc. Then compose a brief as detailed as possible and approach someone you can trust and work with. Trust is vital