Superior Drummer snare sound

recording

I'm looking for advice on getting a good snare sound from Superior Drummer. At the moment the snare sounds too 'soft' for want of a better phrase. I'm looking for a that snappy 'cracking' snare sound that you hear in rock tunes. I don't know much about mixing/eq drums, any advise on how to get a better sound out of it? Cheers.

MilanPan!c

recording wrote: »

I'm looking for advice on getting a good snare sound from Superior Drummer. At the moment the snare sounds too 'soft' for want of a better phrase. I'm looking for a that snappy 'cracking' snare sound that you hear in rock tunes. I don't know much about mixing/eq drums, any advise on how to get a better sound out of it? Cheers.

What samples are you using for the snare?

ZV Yoda

recording wrote: »

I'm looking for advice on getting a good snare sound from Superior Drummer. At the moment the snare sounds too 'soft' for want of a better phrase. I'm looking for a that snappy 'cracking' snare sound that you hear in rock tunes. I don't know much about mixing/eq drums, any advise on how to get a better sound out of it? Cheers.

SD is very versatile & well capable of producing a cracking snare sound. You prob just need to tweak your settings a bit. In general, the "body" of the snare sound comes from the closed (top & bottom) snare mics… but the “crack” comes from the overhead and room/ambient mics.

Try the Nir-Z custom snare - sounds like Indiana Jones cracking his whip.

Personally, I don't use the mixer in SD - I bounce the closed mics, overhead mics & room/ambient mics out into Pro Tools & mix them like I would a real kit. I usually have 8-12 raw drum tracks.

If you can post a short mp3 it might be easier to give more specific advice.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

the ez drummer sample packs are processed
the sd 2,0 packs are not



if you want more snap use the overheads or pick a snappier snare in the kit build.

the pop and rock one is very snappy.

sounds to me like you are not mixing it correctly .

im getting TOO much snap in some cases nd have to compress .

its a fcuking great set up though

MilanPan!c

yeah, if you get the add-ons you have access to like 15 snares... certainly some snap in there.



I still (even though it's not as flexible) think the samples are nicer on the AR kits... snap-a-roonie!

DaDumTish wrote: »

the ez drummer sample packs are processed
the sd 2,0 packs are not



if you want more snap use the overheads or pick a snappier snare in the kit build.

the pop and rock one is very snappy.

sounds to me like you are not mixing it correctly .

im getting TOO much snap in some cases nd have to compress .

its a fcuking great set up though

progsound

Niall - Dahlia wrote: »

At the end of the day it's quite a processed set of samples, a little too processed and over-compressed in my opinion, depending on what you're after of course.

I thought s2.0 is all raw samples? It certenly sounds like that to my ears i cant hear any compression on the raw kit sounds.

But back ot what snare sound are you shooting for op?
There is a good range that can be covered with the snares included can you give me a ref snare sound to shoot for and il see if i can help you out

i57dwun4yb1pt8

here is my multi out SET UP IN sd2 - THIS MAY NOT MATCH YOUR sd OR DAW TRACK LIST BUT GIVES YOU AN IDEA

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kits
= pop and rock or nashville / avatar / new york etc

---

tracks routing

---

kick inside sd track output 1 into daw track 1 = kick
kick outside sd track output 1 into daw track 1 = kick
kick sub sd track output 1 into daw track 1 = kick

all sent to a group called = close mics - that has a send / return to a squashy compressor

---

snare top sd track output sd2 into daw track 2 = snare
snare bot sd track output sd2 into daw track 2 = snare
snare 1176 sd track output sd2 into daw track 2 = snare

all sent to a group called = close mics - that has a send / return to a squashy compressor

---

tom 1 sd track output 4/5 sd 4 into daw track 4 panned correct
tom 2 sd track output 4/5 sd 5 into daw track 5 panned correct

these daw 4 and 5 go to a group called = small toms if similar eq is needed -
then on to a group called = toms for say compression if needed and reverb send if needed


tom 3 sd track output 6/7 sd 6 into daw track 6 panned correct
tom 4 sd track output 6/7 sd 7 into daw track 7 panned correct

these daw tracks 6 and 7 go to a group called = large toms say if a similar eq is needed -
then on to a group called = toms - for say compression if needed and reverb send if needed




toms all end up at master daw group = toms

all sent to a group called = close mics - that has a send / return to a squashy compressor

---

overheads sd track output 8/9 sd 8 into daw track 8 left over panned correct
sd track output 8/9 sd 9 into daw track 9 right over panned correct

daw 8 and 9 go to a daw group called stereo overheads -

---

room sd track output 10/11 sd 10 into daw track 10 left room panned correct
sd track output 10/11 sd 11 into daw track 11 right room panned correct

daw 10 and 11 go to a daw group called stereo room - then to drum master group

---

any other ambient mics are treated in the same way as the room mics above

---

THIS ENDS UP AS :

---

kik ( MAY INSERT COMP AND EQ ON THIS IF NEEDED ) - - GOES TO CLOSE MICS
snare ( MAY INSERT COMP AND EQ ON THIS IF NEEDED and a stand alone verb send ) - GOES TO CLOSE MICS
toms ( MAY INSERT COMP AND EQ ON THIS IF NEEDED and a stand alone verb send ) - GOES TO CLOSE MICS

stereo overheads ( RAW - GOES TO NON CLOSE MICS group )

stereo room ( RAW - - stand alone - goes to drum master group )

snare plate send

toms verb send

close mic send squash

non close mic send squash

---

---

then end up as

---

close mics

non close mics

stereo room

snare plate send

toms verb send

close mic send squash

non close send mic squash

this all blended into a final track called DRUM-MASTER

---

- and i usually put a nice limting compressor on this -
and maybe over all eq for the lot ( a slight bit )

---

NOTE

i record live hi hat and ride
and blend them in to the overall mix ,( but im not going to explain this - its tricky )
as i do not like the SD ride and hats on final cuts.

---

its complicated but it works .
__________________________________

MilanPan!c

Cool DDT!

I prefer the cymbals in SD to those in AR, but cymbals must be impossible to sample properly or something... They never sound right.

TelePaul

That's really cool of you DDT. I actually had a thought regarding a thread for SD2 presets - I'm guessing we could find a way to post saved SD 2 formats from the stand-alone instance of the program. But this would probably be contingent on everyone using the same version of SD2, otherwise kits mightn't match...

Hmmmm.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

forgot to add- this is in REAPER
cubase normally does all this for you automatically ( with a bit of tweaking )
and protools - no idea how you do it .



all ive listed here is custom - you can do the same easy
its all matter of choosing which SD output in the sd mixer for say - the toms

then mapping the output to a midi multi in in a daw track

i do it this way to be flexible with

1/ panning - i dont use SD panning - all SD pans are at center and i use the DAW to pan each mic .

2/ more contorl over individual eq/ compression reverbs etc

3/more contorl over overall drum mix and processing.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

laso note ive found that with this level of groups it sounds better if you phase reverse the following groups

stero overheads, stero room and master toms

leave the kick and snare alone
but give it a try - i just find it sound fuller to me.

PMI

No ones mentioned sticking the snare through the 57 Mic channel?!? or maybe the bullet mic?!? just add a bit of dirt to it, you will find that help a bit....

Also you will find the new york sessions the one you end up going for the most....

The trick with superior is not the close mics but its how you use the ambient/room/extra mic channels to create your kit

i57dwun4yb1pt8

one step at a time PMI ;);)

i agree with using less close and more ambient mics - this is where it really shines ,

ZV Yoda

SD is fantastic if you want real drums sounds & complete flexibility although I’d agree with DaDumTish that the cymbals (not so much the hi-hats for me) are the weakest link. Try different cymbals though – some are a lot more realistic than others. For me, SD cymbals still sound a lot better than they would if I mic’d/played them live with my home set up, so I can live with the compromise.

My workflow.... I record the midi drum pattern on Roland vDrums. I use it to trigger the SD kit/sounds I want. Then I bounce the SD raw files directly into Pro Tools. After that, I mix the kit in PT like I would a real live kit. As a right handed drummer, I pan the kit from the drummer’s perspective (I know some people don’t like this, but there you go). My routing/plug-ins can change depending on the type of song, but I'll typically do something like this:

Track 1 Kick outside + kick sub
Track 2 Kick inside
Panned dead centre. I’ll EQ/comp these tracks - but always against the bass guitar. I blend 1 & 2 to taste. 1 = more thump, 2 = more click.

Track 3 Snare top + Snare 1176
Track 4 Snare bottom
Panned dead centre. Depending on the snare/SD kit selected, I’ll try different closed mic combinations to see what works best out of SD. After that, I’ll just EQ/comp these tracks & blend to taste – top for body, bottom for rattle.

Track 5 Hi-hats
Panned 10 left. I generally only Eq these (subtractive)… trying to keep them as natural sounding as possible.

Track 6 Toms
Pre-panned in SD (Sml Tom=40 left, Med tom=10 Left, Floor tom=30 right). I find there’s no need to bounce each tom individually since they sound great out of SD. No point creating extra PT tracks if I don’t need them.

Track 7 Overheads
Panned 80 left, 80 right (I don’t like the kit panned too wide). The overheads in SD mainly capture cymbals (rather than the whole kit). I make sure I’m happy with the crash/ride balance & tonality - generally only subtractive Eq.

Track 8 Room (close)
Panned like over heads @ 80/80. This mic picks up the whole kit. I’ll Eq if needed, but that’s it. This adds the "crack" to the snare.

Track 9 Room (far)
Panned like over heads @ 80/80. I love this mic. It just adds depth to the kit sound – makes it sound 3D to my ears. Too much in the mix sounds phasey, but when used effectively, it adds a bit of magic.

All of the above tracks are then sent to busses in different combinations. For some, (kick, snare & toms) I tend to mix a lot of the wet signal, but for the overheads/room, I tend to use less.

Buss 1 – Kick only (Eq, comp & sometimes plate)
Buss 2 – Snare only (Eq, comp, plate and/or reverb)
Buss 3 – Toms only (Eq, comp, plate and/or reverb)
Buss 4 – Full kit (Comp, Massy Tape Sat, Digi Sansamp distortion, reverb). I rarely route the kicks to buss 4. If I do, it’s just a small amount.

In terms of mixing the whole lot, there’s no right & wrong, but if I’m looking for a more “live” sound, then the room/ambient mics will be the main sound, followed by overheads (cymbals). Then & I’ll bring the closed mics up under them to fill out the sound. If I’m doing something more dancey with lots of percussive loops, then the closed mics tend to be more prominent, followed by overheads, followed by room/ambient mics.

… but whatever works for you. SD is so versatile & the raw sounds are so good that your own mixing style can yield totally different results than another person using the same SD kit.

Also, the really great thing about this set up is that after you’ve mixed the whole song, if you’re not happy with your snare sound, or you’d like bigger toms, maybe a China cymbal instead of a crash… just go back to SD, select the new drums/cymbal, bounce it again & away you go. It’s perfect for those times when the guitarist says to you “I heard this great snare sound on a CD the other day – it’d be perfect for this song”

slavedave

Have you tried right clicking the snare of choice and then playing with the envelope decay settings on the right hand side of the screen to lop off the tails / shorten the tails a little? i recall seeing Matteus do something akin to this in a tutorial to introduce some "snap".
Combined with some suitable mic selection/tweaks drawn from previous posters you may get some joy.
Love SD2.0!

DamagedTrax

recording wrote: »

I'm looking for advice on getting a good snare sound from Superior Drummer. At the moment the snare sounds too 'soft' for want of a better phrase. I'm looking for a that snappy 'cracking' snare sound that you hear in rock tunes. I don't know much about mixing/eq drums, any advise on how to get a better sound out of it? Cheers.

best thing for this is a 1176 style compressor. attack at about 1 o'clock and short release, input till you're getting 4/5db gain reduction. i think superior kits actually have an 1176 channel for the snare dont they?

ZV Yoda

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i think superior kits actually have an 1176 channel for the snare dont they?

Yip, they do

PMI

I have been known to bounce certain drum tracks to audio outside of superior for a bit more control so dont rule that out either