Fitting Anchor Hooks in Van (Router? Hole Saw?)

cormie

Hi there,
I'm looking to fit a few of these in my van:


I'd want them as close to the side wall as possible and they will also have to be secured into the steel frame of the van to give a stronger hold.

What's the best way to make the recess so that it will fit nicely into the wood floor and have good contact with the screws etc? I was thinking to use a router, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to get close enough to the sidewall with one. I was also thinking and had been suggested, using a hole saw, but I don't have one

Also, what would I need to drill into the metal frame I wonder?

These will need to be strong enough to secure a piano so I need it done properly so any feedback would be greatly appreciated

Buford T Justice

Routers are usually for wood, and I don't think i've ever seen one for steel.

Holesaw would be the job, but you would need to be careful that you don't hit anything underneath the floor like brake pipes, fuel lines etc.....

If you really want a strong bond, bolt them in, and if they are going to be taking a serious weight, I'd weld them down too. maybe but use a bit of sealer like tigerseal around the welds / joints then. Should take care of it for you

cormie

Hi thanks for the reply

Just to note, the floor I'd be routing is indeed wood, but the bolts would be going down into the metal frame of the cab itself:



So I was thinking to just get some bolts and washers for down below.

I've no experience at all in welding unfortunately, do you mean weld the bolts down to the cab, or weld the actual hook plate down to something too?

Was hoping I wouldn't have to buy anything like a hole saw

Also, what kind of bit would I need to pilot through the metal frame I wonder?

antiskeptic

cormie wrote: »

I'd want them as close to the side wall as possible and they will also have to be secured into the steel frame of the van to give a stronger hold. What's the best way to make the recess so that it will fit nicely into the wood floor and have good contact with the screws etc? I was thinking to use a router, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to get close enough to the sidewall with one. I was also thinking and had been suggested, using a hole saw, but I don't have one

You could remove a piece of wooden floor neatly using a 6-8mm drill to drill a line of not-quite-touching holes in the shape you want to remove. A Stanley knife can be used to cut the wood' between adjacent holes (tap on the top of the blade with a hammer to drive the blade through the wood if necessary). The flange on the clasp your using will overlap the slightly jaggedy edge of the hole.

Also, what would I need to drill into the metal frame I wonder?

The chances are that you won't be able to get easy access from underneath so you'll need to drill and tap holes in the frame from above. The hole you tap will be dependent on the size hole the clasp has. Given there's 4 holes per clasp, M6 would be more than plenty for what you need - and would be reasonably easy to drill and tap. You'll need to buy the set of taps (usually coming in a set or 3 graduated shapes for each size), a tap holder, and a drill suitable for the tap size plus say a 2mm drill to bore a pilot hole. The shop can advise.

If you need advice on how to tap a hole then post back.

Buford T Justice

antiskeptic wrote: »

The chances are that you won't be able to get easy access from underneath so you'll need to drill and tap holes in the frame from above. The hole you tap will be dependent on the size hole the clasp has. Given there's 4 holes per clasp, M6 would be more than plenty for what you need - and would be reasonably easy to drill and tap. You'll need to buy the set of taps (usually coming in a set or 3 graduated shapes for each size), a tap holder, and a drill suitable for the tap size plus say a 2mm drill to bore a pilot hole. The shop can advise.

If you need advice on how to tap a hole then post back.

Trouble with tapping, is if its in a hole at the side of the van then you can't get the tap head to spin round completely when you are tapping. I've had troubles with this before. If the drawing is accurate, then you would need ply in the van that is at least 24 mil thick, which is a bit unlikely. Its more likely that the floor is lined with 12mil ply. Now, I'll add that its still do-able, but if you are fitting these to a courier van then it will be a pain in the ass after a while because pallets and boxes will foul on the mounts constantly. Tapping will be easier than trying to get nuts and washers fitted on the underside, as that would be a two man job.

Tapping the chassis is a good idea, but you will need oil and patience to do it, as you'd want the threads to be cut straight.

cormie

Thanks again for the replies

Wasn't too sure what you were talking about with tapping, but I googled and found this which shows pretty well what you were talking about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veO270DcKXE

To be honest, I'd feel a lot more confident in having a nut under the bolt with some washers in between aswell so I think I may just go for the regular way. I'll just have to get somebody to help with the tightening I guess

When you say about making the hook flush with the floor so boxes won't get caught etc, that's another concern, what if the floor isn't thick enough for the 23.5 (according to the diagram, 26 - 2.5) recess? I don't want the outside frame of the hook bending when I tighten it. I guess I just have to hope it's thick enough?

Buford T Justice

cormie wrote: »

Thanks again for the replies

Wasn't too sure what you were talking about with tapping, but I googled and found this which shows pretty well what you were talking about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veO270DcKXE

To be honest, I'd feel a lot more confident in having a nut under the bolt with some washers in between aswell so I think I may just go for the regular way. I'll just have to get somebody to help with the tightening I guess

When you say about making the hook flush with the floor so boxes won't get caught etc, that's another concern, what if the floor isn't thick enough for the 23.5 (according to the diagram, 26 - 2.5) recess? I don't want the outside frame of the hook bending when I tighten it. I guess I just have to hope it's thick enough?

I'd nearly bet its not thick enough. Vans would be lined with 12mil or less generally. You can bulk up the bolts with washers if you want, but you will end up with mounts sticking up out of the floor. You'd be looking at cutting holes in the floor of the van to get it flush.

cormie

Had a look today and it looks like I may have to go through the whole way to get it flush

I'm just concerned about how strong a hold it's going to be now having to go the full way through. I got a drill bit for metal and it's surprisingly easy to drill through, I thought it would be a bit harder

What's the deal with getting a hole saw attachment? Apparantly you need more than just the roundy bit that does the chopping? I'll be attaching this to just a normal screw gun thingy by the way.

Are any of you local to Dun Laoghaire by the way and fancy a nixer? Would like to get it done properly and observe/help if I can!

Buford T Justice

cormie wrote: »

Had a look today and it looks like I may have to go through the whole way to get it flush

I'm just concerned about how strong a hold it's going to be now having to go the full way through. I got a drill bit for metal and it's surprisingly easy to drill through, I thought it would be a bit harder

What's the deal with getting a hole saw attachment? Apparantly you need more than just the roundy bit that does the chopping? I'll be attaching this to just a normal screw gun thingy by the way.

Are any of you local to Dun Laoghaire by the way and fancy a nixer? Would like to get it done properly and observe/help if I can!

If you have a van heading to Sligo in the near future I'll knock it in for ya no problem.

Its easy to drill through because you are only drilling through the metal body of the van, you've not hit the Chassis, and the metal would be only a couple of mm thick. Therefore, I'd scrap the whole tap idea - the metal isn't thick enough.

For the holesaw, it will be run by a mandrel which has a pilot bit in the center. The pilot will be in the middle of the hole and will guide the larger saw. This won't take very long to cut out, but I'd recommend a bit of lubricating on the bit as it cuts to keep the heat down, like WD40 every now and again.
Once the hole is cut, mark and drill the four holes for the bolts. Be careful that these holes don't foul into the bigger hole thats just been cut, as it can be a pain. Since its not getting into the Chassis, use good big washers underneath, and locknuts if at all possible. If you don't have locknuts, then some threadlock will do the job.

Also, be 100% sure that anywhere you drill isn't going to hit your diesel tank, fuel lines, brake lines or electrical wiring, or you will find yourself in more trouble than you bargained for.

Once done, just cut the corresponding holes into the timber lining the van and bob's your uncle.

If it does look a bit iffy after you've done all of this, and its maybe not 100% secure, then I'd recommend welding them down to be absolutely sure. Be sure to disconnect the battery first though.

Best of luck OP

cormie

Thanks again for the reply

Just made an ad over on adverts looking for somebody to do this and an even trickier job with regards putting a structure on the whole side wall of the van for strapping http://www.adverts.ie/233665/services-wanted/carpenter-welder-metal-worker-with-own-tools-to-fit-out-van-south-dublin/

I think at the bit I drilled, I did actually hit the metal chassis, but this part of the chassis itself is quite think, maybe 4mm. It's the supporting bars that run from one side of the chassis to another and I think the body itself just has a wooden base.

Can I ask what's the difference between a lock nut and a normal nut? I think I just have the normal ones, lock nuts seem to curve in at the bottom on the outside, but I can't see anything that would make this give a better hold? Or should the curve be placed on the upper when being screwed in to go a little further up the spiral? How does it "lock" if at all?

Luckily I can see exactly where I'm drilling to and there's no cables or fuel lines along it at all This should give an idea of the type of chassis it is, just imagine it's extended beyond the wheels so it goes the whole width of the body and the cross bars are where I'm drilling into and one side is as you'd see in that picture, but the other side is open, like this [ if you get me, so I'm drilling into the top part of this shape [

If it needs to be welded, what would I weld them too? Do you mean weld the buts and bolts together, or the actual anchor hook to something?

Pity you're in Sligo

Buford T Justice

For Strapping bars that you are after, it may be worth getting a price of Van Equip

Not sure if you want to pay their prices, but might give you an idea as to what solutions are out there, that and they could even supply the materials for you

I read the ad, you are doing this to a Luton body? I was under the impression that this was just a standard van body with a sheet of mdf lining it. This makes things different

In regards to the welding, based on the above assumption if needed I would have welded the outside of the brackets to the metal floor of the van for extra security, but nevermind this now, since its a luton

If its a Luton box that you have, and its only a timber floor under the brackets then you can get a holesaw and cut the main holes, and use a router to countersink the rest of the bracket into the floor (depending on the depth of the timber, should be good and thick though) This will leave the brackets flush with the floor. If the Floor of the body is good and thick, you may well be able to just route out a template of the bracket into the floor without the need for going the whole way through it at all.

As its a luton, and you will be placing them strategically on the floor of the van to line up with the chassis bars, then you can either use locknuts and washers, or tap the Chassis and just tighten the bolts into it. Personally, I'd go and tap the chassis first with a bit of threadlock on the bolts and if the threads aren't strong enough, use locknuts thereafter
There are a few ways of doing it, but that would be one I'd use

In regards to lock nuts, these would be your bog standard nuts
and these would be lock nuts
The difference being, the nylon on the locknut cuts into the threads of the bolt and gives a very tight grip. Once you thread in as far as them you will need a spanner to tighten them. The plus side, is that they won't vibrate loose, and even if they were loose in the first place, they won't fall off the bolt with the vibtations. Bog standard bolts will just work themselves loose over time and fall off.

cormie

Thanks again for the reply

Getting the van done up with signwriting in a place about 200m away from van equip so might pop into them and see what they say

I don't think the floor is THAT thick, it's about 24mm I think so the hole will probably have to go the full way through. The difficult thing with routing is that I need the hooks to be as close to the wall as possible to minimise movement and to be able to work with slimmer items I'd be strapping down too. So with the shapes of routers I wouldn't be able to get so close, I have a chisel set though so might see how I can get on with that. Again tapping the chassis will be a problem as it'll need to be so close. I think maybe the locknuts and washers would be ok, I hope anyway

Think I'll definitely go for the locknuts anyway, thanks for the explanation

Surprised nobody has replied to the add, I thought there would have been a lot of offers from experienced tradesmen given the times. Pity you're not closer yourself as you seem to know exactly what to do

Buford T Justice

cormie wrote: »

Thanks again for the reply

Getting the van done up with signwriting in a place about 200m away from van equip so might pop into them and see what they say

I don't think the floor is THAT thick, it's about 24mm I think so the hole will probably have to go the full way through. The difficult thing with routing is that I need the hooks to be as close to the wall as possible to minimise movement and to be able to work with slimmer items I'd be strapping down too. So with the shapes of routers I wouldn't be able to get so close, I have a chisel set though so might see how I can get on with that. Again tapping the chassis will be a problem as it'll need to be so close. I think maybe the locknuts and washers would be ok, I hope anyway

Think I'll definitely go for the locknuts anyway, thanks for the explanation

Surprised nobody has replied to the add, I thought there would have been a lot of offers from experienced tradesmen given the times. Pity you're not closer yourself as you seem to know exactly what to do

Bloody Geography! :mad:

If you have a van down here any time soon, I could belt them in for ya.