FTA channels coming and going.

Grumpypants

I am having some problems with my Free to air sat. system. I got the Ross one in homebase and set it up fine but some of the channels are fairly random. For example ITV 2 never works but ITV +1 works fine. BBC 1 works sometimes BBC rarely works. I have found a few more BBC 2 channels further up in the list but they seem to show BBC 1.

Channel 4 is hit and miss, E4 never works. BBC HD and ITV HD take turns only 1 will work at the time. I had BBC HD all day yesterday on preview nothing on ITV then last night they swapped nothing on BBC but the England game was on ITV HD but the picture was horrible you coudlnt make out the players it was barely SD not to mind HD.

I have a signal of 63% so i dont think its a signal problem as i would either have no channels or all the channels. I have a free sat box on the same dish that works perfectly.

Is this just a rubbish box or am i doing something wrong. I have tried rescanning for channels but getting fed up having to move them around afterwards.

Trevord

It might help if you could clarify a few things:

Did you get a dish with the Ross system ? Is that the dish you are using ? What size is it? Have you got two cables running from that dish ?

If so have you tried swaping over the cable going to the freesat box so that it runs to the Ross box in case there is an issue with the cable going to the Ross box ?

Note: It IS possible for some channels to work and for others not to work, because there are two different satelittes (Astra and Eurobird) providing the channels you are watching.

Some aspects of your post don't make sense.

If you have rescanned then it does not make sense that you can see BBC1 but that it is labelled as BBC2

Try deleteing all the channels on the Ross box and scanning from scratch.

Overall, your description I'd suggests that either
1) your dish is not properly aligned or
2) the cable you are using is defective or
3) the F connectors on the cable are not attached correctly.

Mr McBoatface

Grumpypants wrote: »

I have a signal of 63% so i dont think its a signal problem as i would either have no channels or all the channels. I have a free sat box on the same dish that works perfectly.

Is this just a rubbish box or am i doing something wrong. I have tried rescanning for channels but getting fed up having to move them around afterwards.

Have you swapped the Freesat and Ross boxes to see if the problem continues on the Ross box and if the freesat box is affect in any way ? This could help rule in or out faulty cables and connections .

Also if there is a dect/wireless phone near the affected receiver try un-pluging it and removing it. Dect phones are known to cause issue with sky box and I just discovered that my Dect phone affects the TV tuner on my HTPC, channels on certain frequencies won't tune in or display when the phone is beside my HTPC

muggyog

Is this the model you bought and have you done the flash update (link on page)?

waster81

Grumpypants wrote: »

I am having some problems with my Free to air sat. system. I got the Ross one in homebase and set it up fine but some of the channels are fairly random. For example ITV 2 never works but ITV +1 works fine. BBC 1 works sometimes BBC rarely works. I have found a few more BBC 2 channels further up in the list but they seem to show BBC 1.

Channel 4 is hit and miss, E4 never works. BBC HD and ITV HD take turns only 1 will work at the time. I had BBC HD all day yesterday on preview nothing on ITV then last night they swapped nothing on BBC but the England game was on ITV HD but the picture was horrible you coudlnt make out the players it was barely SD not to mind HD.

I have a signal of 63% so i dont think its a signal problem as i would either have no channels or all the channels. I have a free sat box on the same dish that works perfectly.

Is this just a rubbish box or am i doing something wrong. I have tried rescanning for channels but getting fed up having to move them around afterwards.

Not true you could receive some channels and not receive the others.

As mentioned i would say poor alignment is your problem

Grumpypants

Trevord wrote: »

It might help if you could clarify a few things:

Did you get a dish with the Ross system ? Is that the dish you are using ? What size is it? Have you got two cables running from that dish ?

If so have you tried swaping over the cable going to the freesat box so that it runs to the Ross box in case there is an issue with the cable going to the Ross box ?

Note: It IS possible for some channels to work and for others not to work, because there are two different satelittes (Astra and Eurobird) providing the channels you are watching.

Some aspects of your post don't make sense.

If you have rescanned then it does not make sense that you can see BBC1 but that it is labelled as BBC2

Try deleteing all the channels on the Ross box and scanning from scratch.

Overall, your description I'd suggests that either
1) your dish is not properly aligned or
2) the cable you are using is defective or
3) the F connectors on the cable are not attached correctly.

Its the dish i got with the Ross box. Not sure what size same as a sky dish. I have spilt the cable and have 1 running to the Free sat which works perfecty al ways has and one to the Ross box upstairs. I have never been able to pick up E4 on the Ross system. I have tried changing them around but its still the same out come. It was aligned with a sat finder and i have a signal strength of 63%.

waster81 wrote: »

Not true you could receive some channels and not receive the others.

As mentioned i would say poor alignment is your problem

I would expect that for channels like i can get BBC but not CBS. But i can get ITV2+1 but not ITV2 im sure they would be coming from the same sat.

Mr McBoatface

Grumpypants wrote: »

Its the dish i got with the Ross box. Not sure what size same as a sky dish. I have spilt the cable and have 1 running to the Free sat which works perfecty al ways has and one to the Ross box upstairs. I have never been able to pick up E4 on the Ross system. I have tried changing them around but its still the same out come. It was aligned with a sat finder and i have a signal strength of 63%.

Signal strength of 63% isn't great, some receivers may be fine but others may need more. It's a 65cm dish so it's fine for Ireland but it only has a single LNB feed, but you say you split the cables - how ? You should have one feed from the dish for each receiver, I think you'll need to upgrade your LNB on the dish to a multi one. Dect phone interference on some channels could be a problem and do the firmware update previously posted that might help, but i'd say it's alignment or the way you've split the cable.

Grumpypants wrote: »

I would expect that for channels like i can get BBC but not CBS. But i can get ITV2+1 but not ITV2 im sure they would be coming from the same sat.

I'm no expert but I think there are 3 or 4 Satellites (Astra 2A, B, D and eurobird 1) in orbit occupying more a less the same space, some of the Satellites have wider beams and give better coverage, the ones with narrow beams give problems when not aligned correctly.

muggyog

Grumpypants wrote: »

I have spilt the cable and have 1 running to the Free sat which works perfecty al ways has and one to the Ross box upstairs.

You cant run two receivers successfully off single output LNB. You are going to have to 'lose' a receiver or get a dual o/p LNB ( what was on your old dish? ).

The 'weaker' receiver is suffering in your current setup. You will find your problem goes away with just one connected.

Grumpypants

Cheers ill try to switch the cables tomorrow when its not raining. I put a splitter before the cable comes into the first box. (ie it goes from the dish to the splitter and then 2 cables come out one to each box) But both receivers have an LNB line out if i run the cable from the dish to the first box then out of that box to the one upstairs could that work? or will i need a dual LNB.

waster81

Grumpypants wrote: »

Its the dish i got with the Ross box. Not sure what size same as a sky dish. I have spilt the cable and have 1 running to the Free sat which works perfecty al ways has and one to the Ross box upstairs. I have never been able to pick up E4 on the Ross system. I have tried changing them around but its still the same out come. It was aligned with a sat finder and i have a signal strength of 63%.



I would expect that for channels like i can get BBC but not CBS. But i can get ITV2+1 but not ITV2 im sure they would be coming from the same sat.

No they are not from the same transponder so it is the alignment that is wrong, 63% isnt that stong should be up nearthe 80% mark

darth_maul

look you are getting some bad advice on this thread, you cannot split a satellite feed cable like you can with say an aerial or cable tv cables.


Splitting the LNB feed is not a good idea because it will reduce the signal by more than 50% and because only one receiver (or tuner, in the case of a twin-tuner receiver) is allowed to control the LNB at a time. The preferred solution is to replace the LNB on the dish with one that has additional outputs.

A single LNB has 2 bands and 2 polarisations (High band, Low Band, Horizontal and Vertical polarisation) So at any one time it is in either Low/Hor or Low/Ver or High/Hor or High/Ver.


You are not getting some channels because the freesat box is controlling the LNB, you signal is low because you have the cable split.............................. You need a Quad LNB and another cable directly from the dish


Oh and that Ross receiver is pure shít, it cant even read the Now & Next text properly.

Mr McBoatface

W.T.F. ???

darth_maul wrote: »

look you are getting some bad advice on this thread, you cannot split a satellite feed cable like you can with say an aerial or cable tv cables.

Where has he got bad advise ? Nobody advised him to use a splitter, It only became clear he was not using a multi LNB on his 2nd last post , all the advise about firmware update , swapping box around to check cables , phone interference where valid given the description of the problem with the omission of the fact a single LNB was being used with a splitter.

Given the OP description in his first post the firmware update muggyog linked may have addressed the ITV HD issue, missing and wrong channels been displayed. On the Ross site it specificaly states "ITVHD has moved ... update this and other channels ...." so that firmware update is valid advice.

Dect phone interference on receivers is a well known issue at least on sky receivers and my non sky box - valid advise, dish not aligned correctly, faulty cables, swaping boxes to check cables all valid advise.

Your advise to replace the LNB on the dish with one that has additional outputs has already been given twice since the OP posted full details on his setup

So please where is the BAD advise he was given ????

darth_maul

Wasn't specifically talking about your post but to be still talking about alignment and firmware upgrades, when he has said that he has split the cable is crazy, He said that he has one box that is working fine,

Its because he has split the cable and doesn't realise the implications this will have on both signal strength and the ability of the second box to work independently of the other.
Remove the split, get a quad LNB ............ nothing to do with interference, firmware issues, beam width or dish size.


Oh and the main bad advice

waster81 wrote: »

No they are not from the same transponder so it is the alignment that is wrong, 63% isnt that stong should be up nearthe 80% mark

Mr McBoatface

darth_maul wrote: »

Wasn't specifically talking about your post but to be still talking about alignment and firmware upgrades, when he has said that he has split the cable is crazy, He said that he has one box that is working fine,

Preforming the firmware update is recommended by the manufacture on their site it will help with ITV HD and other channels according to them, are they crazy too ?

darth_maul wrote: »

Its because he has split the cable and doesn't realise the implications this will have on both signal strength and the ability of the second box to work independently of the other.
Remove the split, get a quad LNB ............ nothing to do with interference, firmware issues, beam width or dish size.

Will the issue BBC1 labelled as BBC2 be fixed by a quad LNB ? To me that sound like that an issue that could be addressed by the recommend firmware update but yes more than likely the LNB change will fix all the other issues. However if the OP still has problems after the LNB is changed at least they will have an idea of what else could be causing continued problems.

EDIT- Some extra info for the OP, The LNB on this dish can be changed to standard non-Sky LNB with a 40mm collar

See the post by Tony from Satellite.ie here - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65527121&postcount=138

waster81

darth_maul wrote: »

Wasn't specifically talking about your post but to be still talking about alignment and firmware upgrades, when he has said that he has split the cable is crazy, He said that he has one box that is working fine,

Its because he has split the cable and doesn't realise the implications this will have on both signal strength and the ability of the second box to work independently of the other.
Remove the split, get a quad LNB ............ nothing to do with interference, firmware issues, beam width or dish size.


Oh and the main bad advice

Are itv 2 and itv 2+1 not on different transponders.

The 63% signal strength is that not low?

Grumpypants

Ah lads no need to be fighting ill just get a new LNB over the weekend. For the moment i just swapped the box the Ross one is picking up all the channels and the freesat one upstairs is picking up most of the ones i want so that will keep me going till i can get it sorted properly.

cheers for the advice anyway

muggyog

Heres some more crazy advice (I'm mad, I am!), save yourself a few bob and put the old dish back up along with the new one. You didn't mention if it was a single or double LNB?

My advice about sharing one LNB output was a bit simplistic, answer no. 6 explains it better ( STB = set top box).

The advice regarding updating the firmware and keeping away from phone base stations is still valid. While it wont fix your current problem, it will prevent future ones.

Splitters really only work for analog signals, you need multiswitches for more than one receiver/dish.

BTW compare and contrast.

You cant run two receivers successfully off single output LNB.

Splitting the LNB feed is not a good idea because it will reduce the signal

Ding, Ding

darth_maul

muggyog wrote: »

Splitters really only work for analog signals, you need multiswitches for more than one receiver/dish.

Multiswitches require 4 cables from the dish, one for each of the Band/polarizations combination's, and are only really used for systems with a large amount of receivers.

If you think that it would be better to put two dishes up on the side of your house instead of getting a Quad LNB for one of the dishes thats fine,


The reason I mention Quad over twin, is that quads can usually be picked up cheaper, and its worth going for a quad to allow for future expansion.

muggyog

This is a better explanation from http://www.abadss.com/forum/102-faq-...f-stacked.html ( stolen from this thread, American so mentions to L/R polarization but same applies to H/V )

Why can’t I run 2 receivers from a single LNB dish?

A single LNB is designed to handle the control signal from one receiver only where a dual can handle the control signal from 2 receivers also The signals coming from satellites (applies to 110, 119, 148, 83, 91, 61.5, etc ) are polarized (Left-Hand-Circular - LHCP and Right-Hand-Circular- RHCP)...roughly a 50/50 split...half of the channels are LHCP, half of the channels are RHCP. Each individual LNB can go one way other the other, LHCP or RHCP, but not both at the same time. The polarization is selected by changing the voltage to the LNB, if ~18VDC is sent (from the receiver), then the LNB looks at the LHCP signals...if ~13VDC is sent then the LNB looks at the RHCP signals. With one receiver (IRD), when you change the channels, the receiver changes the voltage as appropriate. If you have two boxes talking to the same LNB, and one is trying to watch an RHCP signal and the other is trying to watch a LHCP signal, then the LNB is going to switch to LHCP (higher voltage wins). If you have a "DUAL LNB" there are actually two LNB'S under the cup, with two external connections for the RG/6 coax. Each receiver talks to its own LNB, commanding the LNB to switch according to the channel that each of the receivers is tuned to. If you have more than two receivers, then a multiswitch is necessary for the same reason mentioned above. To use a standard two-in, four-out multiswitch (a "2X4"), you MUST have a dual LNB...that's rule #1, and it's in concrete. The multiswitch is a group of switches, either mechanical (relays) or electronic (silicon...like a transistor). In a situation where some of the receivers are watching programming sent on a RHCP signal and others are watching programming sent on a LHCP signal, the multiswitch energizes the LNB'S such that one is "tuned" one way, and the other is set the opposite. The multiswitch then feeds the correctly polarized signal to the receiver (it knows who wants what because of the voltage level sent by the receiver). Within each block of polarized signals, there is a range of frequencies available to be selected...just like TV or radio...the signals are always there, you tune to the frequency within the block that you want to listen to. The multiswitch has sent the LHCP or RHCP block of frequencies, now the receiver can select the correct frequency within that block that's appropriate for the channel you want to watch. More-often-than-not, the multiswitch will keep one LNB at LHCP and one at RHCP for faster channel switching if it can. SO, again, splitting a signal from a single LNB doesn't work in a normal setup because the receiver presenting the higher voltage level will always win at the LNB. Many splitters all drop, divide, or block the voltage to the LNB and you only get half the channels available (Scan for "Only getting the ODD transponders" ..There’s a allot*tload of 'them, and most are from people trying to use splitters, or have bad cable (drops too much voltage, can't get to 18VDC), or crummy connectors, or flaky grounding blocks. Sometimes trying to use a splitter can smoke one or both receivers (depends on the splitter, and how it's hooked up). There are some splitters on the market that lead you to believe that they are for splitting one dish to two receivers...it isn’t so. Printing a satellite on the face of the splitter does not impart enough of the correct magic into the splitter to get it to work in this fashion (splitting dish to multiple receivers). Now...to (hopefully) cut off the few that'll try to correct me on that point: there are some special splitters that WILL split one LNB to two receivers BUT it's still a bad idea, you have to know EXACTLY what to buy, and know EXACTLY how to connect it...and it STILL a bad idea...Dual LNB'S are not that expensive, MULTISWITCHES are not that expensive. Do it right or get cable TV (IMHO).