First aid "samaritans"

The Big Red Button

I'm just wondering about something, as a matter of interest.

As part of transition year, I did a first aid course. It was pretty basic, but it covered CPR and all that jazz.

I'm just wondering, if I were to happen upon a scene where CPR was required ... if I were to attempt it, what would my liability be? Say in a situation where (completely hypothetically) I ended up doing more harm than good?

Thanks!

pa990

might be better answered in the legal forum

Elessar

There is new legislation moving through the Dail at the moment to protect volunteers who stop to assist someone in an emergency. It's there to enshrine the protection you already have - which is essentially that you are highly unlikely to be found liable for any wrongdoing if you stop to assist someone in need and do so in good faith i.e. you are not grossly negligent. If you act in the best interests of the person and to what you have been trained, despite what may happen you won't be found liable.

EDIT: Link http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0504/1224269639350.html

ivabiggon

to try answer your question simply,ireland and i think libia, stand to be corrected are the only one that don;t have a good Samaritan law, but if your trained to a particular standard in any rescue/first aid skill and you stop to help someone you will not be liable for any worsening to the patient unless you venture outside you training.
simply if your trained in cpr only and happen on an incident and you decide to open up someone chest with a bolt cutters and stick your hand inside to massage the heart you would be liable...
stay within your training and you'll be ok.
i don't think a case has been successful here, but i think a rather large airport some where over the northside had a case taken against them for chest burns on a successful resuscitation by the patient, but it was thrown out of court.

also if you start to treat a patient and you decide to get up a stop and walk away to would be guilty of abandonment.
but if your doing cpr on a person in a remote area and you can't continue for an uncontrollable reason such as exhaustion, this wouldn't apply

Hooch

Moved to legal with redirect.

Mods throw it back if ye want....think here is best place to get the answer.

Thanks
NGA

ScouseMouse

If you are trained in first aid by one of the main voluntary organisations, this is covered in the training.

If you use your training, and give treatment until proper help arrives, then you have nothing to fear. You will be backed up by the organisation.

So if you treat someone as per official first aid manual edition whatever, as long as you do not deviate from it, they will back you up.

For example: St John Ambulance train people as per the current manual. They will provide solicitors to support you providing you acted in good faith, using their manual, and you did not deviate from it.

(I used to be an instructor)

miju

IIRC if you cert is PHECC accreddited and as long as you stay within your CPG's for your particular PHECC level then you are covered and have nothing to worry about.If you however, step outside of a CPG or go above your level then it open season on you.

baronflyguy

chatterpillar wrote: »

I'm just wondering about something, as a matter of interest.

As part of transition year, I did a first aid course. It was pretty basic, but it covered CPR and all that jazz.

I'm just wondering, if I were to happen upon a scene where CPR was required ... if I were to attempt it, what would my liability be? Say in a situation where (completely hypothetically) I ended up doing more harm than good?

Thanks!

Hi chatterpillar,
That is a good question to ask, your instructor should have covered that as its a common question people ask. Here is my reassurance response to your question and I have no legal background.

What "more harm" are you thinking you might do?

If someone is not breathing and you do CPR you are not doing them any harm. That person is dead and your objective if you are up to it and its safe to do so is to sustain life (by keeping the blood flowing to the brain) as best as you can until help arrives. Remember an Ambulance could take more than 10 mins to arrive. Just do what you have been shown/thought/trained and you will be fine legally regardless if you are a citizen or a volunteer in an organisation. I have never done CPR on a real person before but have been told my friends who are A&E Doctors, Nurses and Paramedics that by doing CPR you may break ribs BUT this happens and you should not stop doing compressions.

Next month (June) PHECC will be rolling out a nationwide campaign called Citizen CPR. This is not a course but more of an information thing to try get joe soap public to Call for help and start Compressions ONLY CPR as soon as possible (no mouth to mouth), it is also hoping that it will encourage people to take first aid classes. The rationale behind it is that the brain needs oxygenated blood flowing or else brain cells will start to die after 4-6 mins. So the quicker help is called for and the compressions start the better chance of survival that person has. From what I was told a survey was done with the public and the main thing people have against CPR is the mouth to mouth part.

More than likely if you ever come across someone not breathing, hopefully you wont, it could be a family member or friend and I seriously doubt you will have no problem trying CPR. Even it it was a stranger who was not breathing I would rather have tried doing CPR, if it was safe to do so, than to be worried about what my legal position is, I'm sure that persons loved ones would rather know CPR was attempted as oppose to there was someone there at the scene who could help but he/she wasn't sure if he was insured or not.

nuac

I see in an earlier post on th is topic that someone who was revived at an airport sued for chest burns.

What ingratitude!

MrPudding

I have heard many stories about people in the US, possibly urban legends I have never bothers to look them up, suing for broken ribs received whilst someone was reviving them.

MrP

NOIMAGINATION

ivabiggon wrote: »

to try answer your question simply,ireland and i think libia, stand to be corrected are the only one that don;t have a good Samaritan law, but if your trained to a particular standard in any rescue/first aid skill and you stop to help someone you will not be liable for any worsening to the patient unless you venture outside you training.
simply if your trained in cpr only and happen on an incident and you decide to open up someone chest with a bolt cutters and stick your hand inside to massage the heart you would be liable...
stay within your training and you'll be ok.
i don't think a case has been successful here, but i think a rather large airport some where over the northside had a case taken against them for chest burns on a successful resuscitation by the patient, but it was thrown out of court.

also if you start to treat a patient and you decide to get up a stop and walk away to would be guilty of abandonment.
but if your doing cpr on a person in a remote area and you can't continue for an uncontrollable reason such as exhaustion, this wouldn't apply

The UK does not have a good Samaratin Law. You cannot be prosecuted for failing to act unless you have a legal duty to do so.

MrPudding

NOIMAGINATION wrote: »

The UK does not have a good Samaratin Law. You cannot be prosecuted for failing to act unless you have a legal duty to do so.

Quite correct, but I think ivabiggon's point that if you start and them decide to stop there could be a potential breach of duty might be valid.

MrP

baronflyguy

MrPudding wrote: »

Quite correct, but I think ivabiggon's point that if you start and them decide to stop there could be a potential breach of duty might be valid.

MrP

There can be many good reasons why you might stop, off the top of my head this is what I can think of :-
- Personal safety, scene becomes unsafe
- Exhaustion from doing CPR
- Unable to cope due to shock from experiencing something you are not used to seeing.

The minimal anyone could do is at least call for help or go get help.

MrPudding

baronflyguy wrote: »

There can be many good reasons why you might stop, off the top of my head this is what I can think of :-
- Personal safety, scene becomes unsafe
- Exhaustion from doing CPR
- Unable to cope due to shock from experiencing something you are not used to seeing.

The minimal anyone could do is at least call for help or go get help.

Of course, that is why I said there could be a potential breach. It is unlikely you would be held to be in breach of a duty if you had a good reason to stop.

MrP