Let's get rich !

PaulBrewer

BBC 6Music's Tom Robinson wrote an article in 2004

http://www.tomrobinson.com/writing/times/index.htm


He weren't wrong ....

dav nagle

Yes but the real problem here is the music that we get from you tube bands. Take a look at the amount of bands who succeed from making a silly video to gain attention, they create annoying one hit wonders based on the fact that they all rehearsed a dance routine on a thread mill, those bands are sell outs. Look at the bands that came out of the 60's, 70's and even dare I say 80's and the 90's, they all did something cool. Look at the last ten years with you tube, it's dog eat dog, who does the wonderfully clever thing succeeds.

Rockshamrover

dav nagle wrote: »

Yes but the real problem here is the music that we get from you tube bands. Take a look at the amount of bands who succeed from making a silly video to gain attention, they create annoying one hit wonders based on the fact that they all rehearsed a dance routine on a thread mill, those bands are sell outs. Look at the bands that came out of the 60's, 70's and even dare I say 80's and the 90's, they all did something cool. Look at the last ten years with you tube, it's dog eat dog, who does the wonderfully clever thing succeeds.

I'd have to agree with you Dav.

Was watching Later with Jools on Friday and I couldn't believe how bad some of those acts were live. They wouldn't last five minutes in the Baggot Inn:D

dav nagle

dav nagle wrote: »

Yes but the real problem here is the music that we get from you tube bands. Take a look at the amount of bands who succeed from making a silly video to gain attention, they create annoying one hit wonders based on the fact that they all rehearsed a dance routine on a thread mill, those bands are sell outs. Look at the bands that came out of the 60's, 70's and even dare I say 80's and the 90's, they all did something cool. Look at the last ten years with you tube, it's dog eat dog, who does the wonderfully clever thing succeeds.

No, the real problem is the likes of the X factor, reality tv, and the rise of boy bands etc. in the last few years..the complete comercialistaion of 'music'..the likes of Louis Walsh, and whatsisface from the x factor, cowell, have ruined music..its cant only about the money..and you're complicit with that 'popstar studio's' sh*te..is it mainly you takin money off 14 year old girls tellin em they'll be the next beyonce?.,yes, a lot of muck gets through because anyone can do it..the means of production now are available to the masses..but you tube also brought us the likes of the arctic monkeys..the good stuffs out there...it's just finding it..

dav nagle

Deleted User wrote: »

No, the real problem is the likes of the X factor, reality tv, and the rise of boy bands etc. in the last few years..the complete comercialistaion of 'music'..the likes of Louis Walsh, and whatsisface from the x factor, cowell, have ruined music..its cant only about the money..and you're complicit with that 'popstar studio's' sh*te..is it mainly you takin money off 14 year old girls tellin em they'll be the next beyonce?.,yes, a lot of muck gets through because anyone can do it..the means of production now are available to the masses..but you tube also brought us the likes of the arctic monkeys..the good stuffs out there...it's just finding it..

Agreed I am a no brain idiot who takes money off kids and I want to be the next Simon Cowelll. I haven't an instrument in my head, no qualifications, a terrible setup, I still live with my folks and I have been single two years and lonely. I am a terrible fraud who should be put out of his undignified misery with my stupid business idea. I am only in it for the money and I know nothing about real music except for the fact that I have passed the gift on to hundreds of young aspiring musicians over the last 10 years. I was a lead rock guitarist in my former life not my present and originally I didn't record bands or songwriters or run two rock schools or ever write real music. I am a big gay pop tranny homesexual who sucks his balls every night right?

PopStar Studios are adding misery and suffering to people like you because you cant understand bilateral thinking, now its okay your not brain dead your small minded, well that's better than being stupid right?

The pen is over there CQD >

old gregg

dav nagle wrote: »

I am a big gay pop tranny homesexual who sucks his balls every night right?

not the sort of expression you'd figure on encountering first thing Monday morning on the MP forum. Maybe to balance things someone needs to pop over to the Gay/lesbian forum and start a thread about standing waves

MilanPan!c

I'll just say what I always say in this conversation:

labels are often agressively meh, but you still can't be a successful band financially (originals/popular music) without a label.

None of the bands touring and playing to even 2-3k are doing that with label support.

Until that happens regularly, this is a silly argument.

Though this kid could be the first...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN9U8kZyfR4

ClutchIt

dav nagle wrote: »

Agreed I am a no brain idiot who takes money off kids and I want to be the next Simon Cowelll. I haven't an instrument in my head, no qualifications, a terrible setup, I still live with my folks and I have been single two years and lonely. I am a terrible fraud who should be put out of his undignified misery with my stupid business idea. I am only in it for the money and I know nothing about real music except for the fact that I have passed the gift on to hundreds of young aspiring musicians over the last 10 years. I was a lead rock guitarist in my former life not my present and originally I didn't record bands or songwriters or run two rock schools or ever write real music. I am a big gay pop tranny homesexual who sucks his balls every night right?

PopStar Studios are adding misery and suffering to people like you because you cant understand bilateral thinking, now its okay your not brain dead your small minded, well that's better than being stupid right?

Relax. I don't think a stupid gimmicky youtube video is really gonna harm good music. Those bands are one hit wonders, you said so yourself.

There are still new bands coming out and getting strings of hits and writing a number of good albums, as always.

dav nagle

ClutchIt wrote: »

Relax. I don't think a stupid gimmicky youtube video is really gonna harm good music. Those bands are one hit wonders, you said so yourself.

There are still new bands coming out and getting strings of hits and writing a number of good albums, as always.

Yes but here's the reality:

Music quality in general has been squashed into mp3 degrading its quality.You Tube audio quality is terrible as with most online service providers. Concerts these days are hit and miss sound wise. I think the value of 'quality production' is no longer as important as the quantity of production. Bands are all going to be fighting it out for one hit wonders with the odd band like the killers or kings of leon hitting huge levels. As for the singer songwriter folk industry here in Ireland it's full of people who tell each other they are deadly when in their honest view they think they are terrible so it's as fake as the pop business if not more in some cases. Hard to believe isn't it? Bands tell each other they are brilliant when in truth they are rivals, the usual story of the singer being with the bassist girlfriend behind his back and the band knowing the score but saying nothing to save grace from falling. So many musicians put themselves on a 'my music is best' level and that's your first mistake, you will never explore music if you are closed minded about it. The trend in Ireland of lashing out singer songwriters, my God it got to a point where my cat was a singer songwriter with it's own band and album. I have noticed that many kids I have taught last year and the year before had a different 'reality' of what it takes to practice every day an hour a day. With new broad band we should be able to stream higher quality you tube and web based audio material. MTV should promote legal purchasing of music all the time and we should go from 44.1 to 96 and make hard drives smaller but with cells that contain one hundred times the storage!!

studiorat

Deleted User wrote: »

No, the real problem is the likes of the X factor, reality tv, and the rise of boy bands etc. in the last few years..the complete comercialistaion of 'music'..the likes of Louis Walsh, and whatsisface from the x factor, cowell, have ruined music..its cant only about the money..and you're complicit with that 'popstar studio's' sh*te..is it mainly you takin money off 14 year old girls tellin em they'll be the next beyonce?.,yes, a lot of muck gets through because anyone can do it..the means of production now are available to the masses..but you tube also brought us the likes of the arctic monkeys..the good stuffs out there...it's just finding it..

The commercial music you're talking about has always been there, Motown and Stax were just the same churning out the tunes week after week. The Boy Band format is as old as the hills, the X factor has had many incarnations over the years as well. I really don't think it's anything new.

ZV Yoda

studiorat wrote: »

The commercial music you're talking about has always been there, Motown and Stax were just the same churning out the tunes week after week. The Boy Band format is as old as the hills, the X factor has had many incarnations over the years as well. I really don't think it's anything new.

Spot on. I never understand why so many people think manufactured boy/girl bands are a recent phenomenon…. As Studiorat says…Motown was a production line, (Phil Spector anyone?). Stock Aitken & Waterman did the same thing in the 80s.

I really don’t see why Satan Cowell or Lucifer Walsh get such a hard time... they don’t force anybody to buy the music. It’s aimed at young teenagers. They love it… so leave ‘em to it. It’s harmless bubble gum pop. It isn’t aimed at musos/musicians in their 20 or above.

Did anybody watch that “I’m in a rock ‘n ‘roll band” thing on BBC2.. the one about “The band” itself being more than the sum of the parts? Stewart Copeland (the Police’s drummer) made a great point. He said there are 2 types of bands who last the distance in the biz:
1. Mates… i.e. lads/lassies who grew up together... the “them vs. us” gang mentality means they can achieve greatness through sheer single-mindedness… even if they are only average musicians to begin with…e.g. The Beatles, U2, Nirvana etc
2. Mercenaries… i.e. top class musicians (who have often made a name for themselves already) who go & seek out the cream of the crop musicians with the sole purpose of forming a readymade band. E.g. The Police, Cream

So, aside from the type of music they play, I see no difference between the mercenary musicians & Messrs. Walsh & Cowell. They all form bands with the express intention of making as much money as possible from those bands. Good luck to them all I say.

ClutchIt

dav nagle wrote: »

Yes but here's the reality:

Music quality in general has been squashed into mp3 degrading its quality.You Tube audio quality is terrible as with most online service providers. Concerts these days are hit and miss sound wise. I think the value of 'quality production' is no longer as important as the quantity of production. Bands are all going to be fighting it out for one hit wonders with the odd band like the killers or kings of leon hitting huge levels. As for the singer songwriter folk industry here in Ireland it's full of people who tell each other they are deadly when in their honest view they think they are terrible so it's as fake as the pop business if not more in some cases. Hard to believe isn't it? Bands tell each other they are brilliant when in truth they are rivals, the usual story of the singer being with the bassist girlfriend behind his back and the band knowing the score but saying nothing to save grace from falling. So many musicians put themselves on a 'my music is best' level and that's your first mistake, you will never explore music if you are closed minded about it. The trend in Ireland of lashing out singer songwriters, my God it got to a point where my cat was a singer songwriter with it's own band and album. I have noticed that many kids I have taught last year and the year before had a different 'reality' of what it takes to practice every day an hour a day. With new broad band we should be able to stream higher quality you tube and web based audio material. MTV should promote legal purchasing of music all the time and we should go from 44.1 to 96 and make hard drives smaller but with cells that contain one hundred times the storage!!

So your gripe is with listening to poor quality 'production' rather than poor quality music?

You tube and the rest are infinitely better than taping off the radio or another friends tape like I had to do when I was younger...

ClutchIt

ZV Yoda wrote: »

I really don’t see why Satan Cowell or Lucifer Walsh get such a hard time...

Contradiction intended here? lol

ZV Yoda

ClutchIt wrote: »

Contradiction intended here? lol

Sarcasm.. moi?... never!

Rockshamrover

ZV Yoda wrote: »

Spot on. I never understand why so many people think manufactured boy/girl bands are a recent phenomenon…. As Studiorat says…Motown was a production line, (Phil Spector anyone?). Stock Aitken & Waterman did the same thing in the 80s.

I really don’t see why Satan Cowell or Lucifer Walsh get such a hard time... they don’t force anybody to buy the music. It’s aimed at young teenagers. They love it… so leave ‘em to it. It’s harmless bubble gum pop. It isn’t aimed at musos/musicians in their 20 or above.

Did anybody watch that “I’m in a rock ‘n ‘roll band” thing on BBC2.. the one about “The band” itself being more than the sum of the parts? Stewart Copeland (the Police’s drummer) made a great point. He said there are 2 types of bands who last the distance in the biz:
1. Mates… i.e. lads/lassies who grew up together... the “them vs. us” gang mentality means they can achieve greatness through sheer single-mindedness… even if they are only average musicians to begin with…e.g. The Beatles, U2, Nirvana etc
2. Mercenaries… i.e. top class musicians (who have often made a name for themselves already) who go & seek out the cream of the crop musicians with the sole purpose of forming a readymade band. E.g. The Police, Cream

So, aside from the type of music they play, I see no difference between the mercenary musicians & Messrs. Walsh & Cowell. They all form bands with the express intention of making as much money as possible from those bands. Good luck to them all I say.

I saw it, excellent tv. The bit about the guys going off to their "solo projects" was gas.

dav nagle

Thanks Niall.


CQD, If you knew what I sacrifice every day to keep my business afloat in this recession you wouldn't be so quick to slander peoples businesses on a public forum. Each and every pro studio here in Ireland has a speciality, mine is vocals, portfolios, record deals, demos, songwriting, parties. You don't get anywhere in life or any respect from your fellow community by misunderstanding people and what they do. As studiorat mentioned pop has always had it's angle. Don't ever come near me both on this forum or in public I have nothing more to say to your blatant disregard and total ignorance of me. I can only guess that no studio in the country would go near you with a barge pole if your so quick on the attack, my God.

MilanPan!c

Deleted User wrote: »

No, the real problem is the likes of the X factor, reality tv, and the rise of boy bands etc. in the last few years..the complete comercialistaion of 'music'..the likes of Louis Walsh, and whatsisface from the x factor, cowell, have ruined music..its cant only about the money..and you're complicit with that 'popstar studio's' sh*te..is it mainly you takin money off 14 year old girls tellin em they'll be the next beyonce?.,

It's funny, because this is what musicians HAVE ALWAYS SAID and it's never really been true.

Pop has long been the economic engine of the music industry... hell, bands like YES used to try and release pop singles...

I would MUCH PREFER someone with at least a bit of talent trying to help individuals evolve as performers, than just everyone being a clone of everyone else.... (and DN has more than a bit of talent is he's able to make a creative business work in these crazy times)

And besides, talent, or lack of talent, is always outed in the end. Everyone knows, at the end of the day, which musicians/singers/drummers that they work with are special... but that shouldn't stop people from trying to follow their passions...

Finally, I'd MUCH rather that the next huge pop sensation came from Ireland... it's coming from somewhere.... So I say, bring us some hits Dave!

Neurojazz

Anyone who complains about Pop music is just jealous.

It's the popular music enjoyed by people and most musicians would give their eye teeth to reach that many people with a message.

ZV Yoda

Neurojazz wrote: »

Anyone who complains about Pop music is just jealous.

It's the popular music enjoyed by people and most musicians would give their eye teeth to reach that many people with a message.

I couldn't agree more... stop complaining & get on with making music.

If you only care about music for "art's sake" then the pop scene/record sales should be irrelevant to you... after all, you’re not doing it for the money, right?

If however, you also want to be a commercial success, then stop whinging about the acts who are already successful (whether you like their music or not), get the finger out & make a proper go of it yourself.

Neurojazz

ZV Yoda wrote: »

I couldn't agree more... stop complaining & get on with making music.

If you only care about music for "art's sake" then the pop scene/record sales should be irrelevant to you... after all, you’re not doing it for the money, right?

If however, you also want to be a commercial success, then stop whinging about the acts who are already successful (whether you like their music or not), get the finger out & make a proper go of it yourself.

I don't think music comes from Art, it was used for communication originally (at least in some countries/cultures).

Clanket

It's an excellent article. The example of The White Album costing so much sums up the greedy record companies for me. I know they'll justify it by saying this income then subsidises expensive marketing of new and upcoming bands. Bullshít. These up and coming bands, if good enough, should be supporting themselves within a few years. The industry has been creaming the public for years. They're the architects of their own downfall. Unless they change and adopt to the modern internet age, they'll be replaced by labels that do.

Savman

Niall - Dahlia wrote: »

I don't see the problem with Dav or anybody else targeting the pop singer market. It's actually a huge market in Ireland, it's not like he's luring impressionable teens into his heathenist den and mugging them for their pocket money.

Durty Dav's Pop Pad does have a ring to it tho.

More power to ya brother!

dav nagle

Savman wrote: »

Durty Dav's Pop Pad does have a ring to it tho.

More power to ya brother!

PopPad Studios!

krd

Neurojazz wrote: »

Anyone who complains about Pop music is just jealous.

It's the popular music enjoyed by people and most musicians would give their eye teeth to reach that many people with a message.

Yes and no.

Lots of pop music is really great. Lots of, especially English, pop music, is, and always has been horrible. And lots of it sounds horribly "over produced" - every airless trick in the book thrown at it - as - as the Koreans say - Making dog soup out of dog ****.

And what's wrong with one hit wonders?


There's good music and there's bad music. My favourite record sold nothing and resulted in the artist getting dropped. It probably cost 100 - 200 k to produce and never made back the money - still it's my favourite record.


What's wrong with Ireland in the last few years. The country has seriously lost the balls to take on the UK pop charts. No amount of Eq'ing skills is going to make up for lack of balls.

alan kelly

Dont look at x factor or any of that garbage... Dont listen to pop music... BUT there is a huge place for it. Jesus kids and teens need to listen to something positive... The thought of kids listening to cohen or dylan instead of kylie wouldnt be right... At least give them a few years before the realise life is ****;)

Neurojazz

Neurojazz wrote: »

I don't think music comes from Art, it was used for communication originally (at least in some countries/cultures).

Isnt art a form of communication?..music is art is communication..

to add..i actually think music is the most profound form of art..it can convey pure emotion , without language, bypassing the rational part of the brain..a piece of music can stir the most intense emotion..im gonna stop now before i start ranting abstract hippy sh*t..

But yeah, again...the current pop music industry is all thats wrong with music..when the majority of the industry consists of people just creaming whatever they can off the top..from time to time, a true original artist breaks through, and then the industry find a few bands that sound similar and market the life outa them..im not saying i dont like any pop music...i do actually like the odd tune..but i dunno, when it's being done for the money you can just hear it..

Robin Ball

It doesn't matter what you do.... do it with passion and to the best of your ability. Things will happen if you do everything you can to produce quality.

Results speak for themselves.

woodsdenis

Anyone who really believes that Simon Cowell/Louis Walsh/Pete Waterman/Micky Most/ Chinn and Chapman (the list could go on for ever BTW) are destroying or have destroyed music has absolutely no idea how, or why music or the music industry works. XFactor/Opportunity Knocks/New Faces have been around for years. They are TV shows, and like POP music serve a section of the marketplace who enjoy what they have to offer. They also produce cash flow for record/TV companies who can the invest in other more risky projects. If you dont like it, turn your TV or Radio off.

This is a real argument that begrudgers and failed musos start making to justify there own lack of talent and success.

I wish Dav and anybody else success in this business. it is a difficult nut to crack on many levels. Ignore ignorant fools who take swipes at you on internet forums, its cowardly for a start, and ultimately shows up their own inadequacies.

krd

Actually, I think the music industry got into real trouble when affordable CD burners became common. before even file sharing kicked in.

Every CD player these days can play a disc of MP3s.

DamagedTrax

does anyone else think alphabeat are awesome? (street cred GONE )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj1MzoO7YmM

ZV Yoda

First, let me say I only started listening to this band because "ahem" our 3 kids (all under 7) like them... It's the Sugababes :eek:. I think their song Denial is a crackin' pop tune. There, I said it :P

I agree with Denis - slating "pop" music is an easy out for disgruntled "real" musicians. I call it sour grapes. There's a place for all types of music & there is no "better" or "worse" genre.

I stuck 2 totally different albums on the stereo when I went home last night:
"Change" by the aforementioned Sugagbabes (from 2007)
"Darklands" by The Jesus & Mary Chain (one of my fav albums since it was released in 1987 - when I was 16)

The 16 year old me would disown me if he knew he'd be listening to the Sugababes in 2010... but the 38 year old me knows that variety is the spice of life!

dav nagle

ZV Yoda wrote: »

First, let me say I only started listening to this band because "ahem" our 3 kids (all under 7) like them... It's the Sugababes :eek:. I think their song Denial is a crackin' pop tune. There, I said it :P

I agree with Denis - slating "pop" music is an easy out for disgruntled "real" musicians. I call it sour grapes. There's a place for all types of music & there is no "better" or "worse" genre.

I stuck 2 totally different albums on the stereo when I went home last night:
"Change" by the aforementioned Sugagbabes (from 2007)
"Darklands" by The Jesus & Mary Chain (one of my fav albums since it was released in 1987 - when I was 16)

The 16 year old me would disown me if he knew he'd be listening to the Sugababes in 2010... but the 38 year old me knows that variety is the spice of life!

''Here here'' (glass raised)