Sten Scores

thesimpsons

Can anyone tell me if anything is available for children who score highly in the Standardised testing in primary school. I know that low score achievers can get learning support hours, but is there anything for high scores. My daughter has scored Sten 10 in both maths and english for 2 years running. I'm trying to keep her motivated in school but its getting harder. She already reads loads but I'm finding it hard to still find age appropriate stuff - shes 11 in 5th class. She's done projects for me as extra work and I've tried to teach her some harder maths (theres a limit to what I can teach her myself though) The school insist she does the same as the rest of the class which is frustrating her. Anyone got any thoughts please.

E.T.

Extra help is generally assigned on the basis of resource hours first - these have to be given, then children with low scores in English (the cut off is very low, I think it's under the 10th percentile), after this children with low Maths scores get help if there are any hours/slots left. (Quite often there aren't). In a lot of schools there is no time left for children with scores in the 30th and 40th percentile, which is still quite low, so there's just no time left to give extra individual/small group time to more able children. It's not a good situation, and the cutbacks the government has imposed over the last few years have made it worse.

I usually give more advanced books to more able children (I've a junior class), but at the older end of the school it's quite hard to come across suitable books for very able readers - often books that a child would like to read aren't books that can be given out by a teacher - a parent has more leeway in this respect as it's your own child.

I was, and still am, a complete bookworm and I remember finding it frustrating myself because the books available for my age-group when I was your daughter's age were way too easy. I read a lot from the adult section of the library, some suitable books, some completely unsuitable but I think I was too young to understand some of the more unsuitable content!

There is a website - www.giftedkids.ie, you might get some useful information there, also try http://www.adifferentplace.org/instructions2.htm for activities for more able children.

byhookorbycrook

We take high abilty groups for both Maths and Literacy and also a group of children who have been accepted for CTYI,but under DES guidelines exceptionally able children are entitled to nothing(don't start me. ):rolleyes:

byhookorbycrook

Some suitable books: Skulduggery pleasant series
Marita Conlon Mckenna has several excellent books like "Under the Hawthorn tree"
Tom McCaughren's "Fox" books, like "Run swift, run free"
The Artemis Fowl books

Some other good suggestions here too
http://www.childrensbooksireland.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=73&Itemid=255

thesimpsons

tks for replies. She's having a bit of fun on the website mentioned already and gone through Conlon McKenna books, Artimis Fowl she just didn't like. I'll just keep checking out others. She'd be well capable of teen books but the content isn't always appropriate yet. We're all complete bookworms in this house and a girl in the local library is fairly good in keeping books for her which they come across. Its disappointing but I shouldn't be in the least surprised, that DES doesn't give any support for high achievers.

byhookorbycrook

Kate Thompson's books are good, avoid Annan water though, too gloomy and teenager-y
Anne Frank, How Hitler stole pink rabbit,Watership down and a lot of the classics like "Little Women"," Black Beauty" and "The hobbit" all go well with this age group too.

jane17

Have to agree with thesimpsons very hard to keep children motivated and interested in school when they happen to be bright. My child spends the day doing jobs or reading his own books that he brings in with him. Could easily start and complete a book in school in the one day.
Must be hard on teachers having such a variety of differant abilities to teach.
Used to get really annoyned about it but because he has a great love of learning he waits to come home from school to learn!
Goes to a book club,chess club and CTYI Plus scouts swimming diving and drama and he appears very happy.

Sigma Force

The Hobbit is a great suggestion and is suitable for all ages, years ago kids as young as 9 ish would read it nowdays kids and even some adults find it difficult and confusing but for a bright kid it should be no problem.

Then there's the lord of the rings books as well, it's not specifically aimed at boys either they're books that appeal to everyone.

Our young on is above average but not as motivated as your child so you're so lucky that she's a reader. Our kid is only starting to get in to reading now but I guess like anyone it all depends on the reading material she's got to be interested in the subject matter.

If you give an idea of what themes she's in to might be able to suggest some more books.

Has she joined the library btw? If you can find one with a good choice of books it works out a lot cheaper than buying them. Actually think it's free for primary kids if not it would be just a couple of euro a year.

Not sure if it's been mentioned already she might not like the stories but some other ones but my 11 yo likes The Spiderwick Chronicles.
There's also an Inkheart series, Roddy Doyle has some kids books if she likes amusing stories and there's a shed load of girly books out as well.

Another suggestion would be to be a bit cheeky and buy her some school books like English and Math that are a for older kids and let her work on them.
Puzzle books perhaps as well, DS brain training or puzzle games for the DS.

Mines a Brainiac aholic and mythbusters addict at the mo she's so brainy and geeky dunno where she gets it from lol.

byhookorbycrook

Guineapig, buying say, 6th class or 1st yr books will only increase boredom down the line. Things like sudoku, project work, write-a-book etc. etc. would probably be a better option. I would meet with the teacher and see what can be done for the child and if it is possible to have some time with one of the learning support/resource teachers next yr-worth a try.

Chuchoter

I was in the same position as your daughter when I was in primary school, and spent most of my time staring at a wall, as we were doing phonics and basic division until 6th class. Unfortunately there are absolutely no provisions for your daughter and people are very reluctant to bring them in for fear of 'elitism'. You can try CTYI, I went there for 6th class, it was a lifesaver. The only thing is its a bit expensive. In 6th class I started learning Japanese by myself because I was bored, which in the end I was good at but is a bit of a useless skill :P. Try learning a language together.

thesimpsons

does the CTYI run courses outside of Dublin - from what I can gather from web site its all run at DCU which is other end of country from me (where its very very sunny today and I gather its raining in Dublin today )

byhookorbycrook

The CTYI run various outreach centres, roughly where are you?

byhookorbycrook

As an aside, I think it's time parents of high ability children started to make noise to the DES. Under some legislation exceptionally able children are considered to have special needs,yet the DES do damn all to help them.

Chuchoter

They have some in Galway, Limerick, Cork and a few other places but theres less choice in the courses.

@byhookorbycrook:
The general public is very reluctant to give help to high ability people, as they say it breeds elitism/they don't need help/so on and so forth. People have a lot more sympathy for learning difficulty children than they do for the other end of the spectrum. Its a shame, as my experience of the education system (socially and otherwise) has made me very bitter and alienated. There is more to the higher end of the spectrum than academics, as for most of my life I have not been able to relate to any of my own age group.

byhookorbycrook

There have been some excellent webinars on the giftedkids.ie site that dispel the "ah sure, they'll learn anyhow" myths. Children of exceptional ability often need additional help to reach their potential,why should they be deprived of the chance?One of my groups have been taking part in a pilot project using virtual worlds thanks to the guys at Daynuv.
http://www.daynuv.com/?p=482
I am constantly amazed by the things they know and what they learn and more to the point ,how they learn. For the sake of three periods of learning support a week, we supporting both highly able and exceptionally able children and hopefully stretching them a little more than is possible in a class of 30.

martin451

My daughter just passed teh DCU CYTI entrance exam for 2 and 3 rd class. We got the results yesteday. She has applied for a summer course in art design and multimedia . Its not cheap 170 for 5 half days !!
Anyway i hope she likes it at this price

She qualiifed on both abstract reasoning and verbal ability test but not in numerical ability test,
Despite this however Unlike most gifted kids she is not very interested in reading atall but is more interested in maths ( in which she did not qualify for DCU but got 96th percentage in 1 st class drumcondra )
Any ideas on how to get her interested in reading ( she has no interest in science either!)?

byhookorbycrook

The maths scores for the CTYI are generally lower as children will not have met some of the concepts yet. Are her Drumcondra scores low in reading?

martin451

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

The maths scores for the CTYI are generally lower as children will not have met some of the concepts yet. Are her Drumcondra scores low in reading?

thanks for reply
i think you are right re CTYI maths as its out of age testing (from what i read on the material sent with the results)
Luckily her drumcondra reading scores are not low . In reading she got 84 per centile last year ( no results for second class received yet).
My main issue is she never reads voluntarily other than the homework and is addicted to the Disney channel in any spare moment ( ie without an organised activity)
(I do occassionally ( once a week ?) manage to bargain with her to to get her to read for 5 minutes- She makes me time it !!)

byhookorbycrook

I'd try to limit tv(easier said than done) and I wouldn't make an issue of the reading. Keep reading to her at night before bed, she does not seem to be suffering from lack of reading at present. If she sees rading is no longer a bargaining chip, she might just do some on her own.Would she listen to audio books?

Chuchoter

martin451 wrote: »

My daughter just passed teh DCU CYTI entrance exam for 2 and 3 rd class. We got the results yesteday. She has applied for a summer course in art design and multimedia . Its not cheap 170 for 5 half days !!
Anyway i hope she likes it at this price

She qualiifed on both abstract reasoning and verbal ability test but not in numerical ability test,
Despite this however Unlike most gifted kids she is not very interested in reading atall but is more interested in maths ( in which she did not qualify for DCU but got 96th percentage in 1 st class drumcondra )
Any ideas on how to get her interested in reading ( she has no interest in science either!)?

The drumcondra tests measure you against your own age group whereas CTYI measure you against kids a few years older, I think. Just keep throwing series of books at her. She's got to like one of them!

martin451

thanks for your comments

martin451

She got her drumcondra scores for 2nd class and they had increased to 95th percentile for english/verbal so despite not reading other than homework she is able to get high scores ( or else the overall standrard is so low?!)

Anway i will just keep encouraging her reading and not worry.

She starts her DCU course next week so we will see how she gets on

snuggles09

i just saw this thread now. my daughter scored sten 4 in her maths which is below average and a 5 which was average in her English..she's going into 3rd class this year..should I be worried. I know she needs a lot more help wth her maths but i alwasy thought her reading, writing, spelling was very good so i'm a bit worried now

martin451

By its very nature there will alwaye be kids with greater or lesser scores than average. Just like in sports etc. kids have different abilities. Average is ok it simply means that .

Nevertheless i guess all of us must do out best for our kids and help them to be the best they can- all we can do is push them a little bit and enourage them IMHO.

raven136

Sorry for dragging up an old thread,just seen this one now.

My 7 year old son(first class) scored a 10 in both his maths and english tests

He is like a sponge and his teacher took us aside to advise us he was incredibly intelligent etc

She advised keeping us his reading to help him along

He reads constantly,just finished harry potter,reading the little prince oscar wildes kids stories,a superman comic atm

He does an art class and is fantastic at constructing lego

Without pushing him,is there anything to do to help him or do we just let him be as he is?

ShamoBuc

raven136 wrote: »

Sorry for dragging up an old thread,just seen this one now.

My 7 year old son(first class) scored a 10 in both his maths and english tests

He is like a sponge and his teacher took us aside to advise us he was incredibly intelligent etc

She advised keeping us his reading to help him along

He reads constantly,just finished harry potter,reading the little prince oscar wildes kids stories,a superman comic atm

He does an art class and is fantastic at constructing lego

Without pushing him,is there anything to do to help him or do we just let him be as he is?

I'd say leave him alone. Encourage reading etc but if he is happy and getting results like that, no need to do anything.

Missyelliot2

snuggles09 wrote: »

i just saw this thread now. my daughter scored sten 4 in her maths which is below average and a 5 which was average in her English..she's going into 3rd class this year..should I be worried. I know she needs a lot more help wth her maths but i alwasy thought her reading, writing, spelling was very good so i'm a bit worried now

I think that when they go back to school, you could maybe have a word with her teacher. She might get some learning support - she may only need a short 'blast'.
TBH, a sTen 5 possibly won't be flagged, but a 4 maybe will.
Good Luck

notuslimited

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I'd say leave him alone. Encourage reading etc but if he is happy and getting results like that, no need to do anything.

Sensible advice. If the school has a maths club you could see if he will join that. In my son's school, maths club was open to 3rd class and above. My boy joined and loves it. We keep an eye on homework and follow up to see how he gets on in the weekly tests he does in school. That's pretty much it. Seems to be working so far - STen scores for the last 3 years have been 10 in Maths and 8 in English.

strawberrie

Children only qualify for learning support if they are below the 10th percentile on the test. Stens of 1,2 or 3 mostly. Stens of 4-6 are in the average range, where most children score. Teacher may be concerned if there has been a sharp drop in sten score, it is definitely a good idea to talk to the teacher, they will be able to give you ideas to help support your child's progress. Meanwhile enjoy the Summer and have fun reading together, writing postcards/ letters to others. Developing your child's skills naturally. When it's raining there are plenty of fun and educational websites you could visit together too

quote="Missyelliot2;85299165"]I think that when they go back to school, you could maybe have a word with her teacher. She might get some learning support - she may only need a short 'blast'.
TBH, a sTen 5 possibly won't be flagged, but a 4 maybe will.
Good Luck[/quote]