What pace do you run your mileage at???

tempo

I would love to know what pace everyone runs at on here.
I range from 6.30-8mins but overall avearge would be 7min miles.
I usually wear a heart rate monitor and as my fitness has improved over the last few months my pace has increased but still in the same hear rate zone.
I have been reading up on a lot of previous top runners logs and it seems most would run their recovery runs alot faster(of course depends on level they run at)
But most of these guys where running 6min miles or below.
Times have changed but European standards have dropped compared to the 80's so maybe more gains are to be made from running a little faster on recovery runs.
i just find I need to run at 7min miles to get the recovery and to keep the niggles and injuries away.My body breaks down very easily when pushing it too much.
Any opinions on the above????

RayCun

It depends on your race pace. I race 5 miles at 8 min/miles, so I run 9-10 in recovery and long runs.

Woddle

I think your wrong, I think I read it somewhere (possibly an Irish runner article) that the top Kenyans are known to run as slow as 9 minute miles on their recovery runs.

When I was training properly last year, I ran 33'07 for 5 miles and my easy run pace would be 8'00 to 8'30, this was far too fast. I used to wonder why I always felt tired, I know now

--amadeus--

Speaking personally I think that one of the mistakes I find inexpereinced runners make on a regular basis is not understanding the point of a particular session; it's something Daniels talks about - you should have a particular goal in mind for every run and run to that goal. New runners frequently try to run each session as hard as possible or push on with the idea that will improve them.

But each session in a well designed training plan will have it's own point and gain. Speed sessons will )obviously) build speed, long runs build endurance. On race day the benefits of these runs combine to give you the speed endurance you need for the race.

Recovery runs are designed to do just that - help you recover. They flush the waste out of your system, keep everything loose. It's active recovery (Tergat explains this better than I do, obv!) it's not a training session as such. If you run them too fast then you don't get the recovery and you will compramise your speed and endurance sessions, which are the keys.

A final thing is that you should never look at pace when comparing your training to another persons. Instead consider intensity. You may be able to run at 25% intensity at x min/miles but for me that same pace may be 75% intesnsity so comparing paces is wrong, IMO

tergat

tempo wrote: »

I would love to know what pace everyone runs at on here.
I range from 6.30-8mins but overall avearge would be 7min miles.
I usually wear a heart rate monitor and as my fitness has improved over the last few months my pace has increased but still in the same hear rate zone.
I have been reading up on a lot of previous top runners logs and it seems most would run their recovery runs alot faster(of course depends on level they run at)
But most of these guys where running 6min miles or below.
Times have changed but European standards have dropped compared to the 80's so maybe more gains are to be made from running a little faster on recovery runs.
i just find I need to run at 7min miles to get the recovery and to keep the niggles and injuries away.My body breaks down very easily when pushing it too much.
Any opinions on the above????

Tempo,

It is all relative to a persons race times, current fitness, type of training, endurance base and running history.

Overal, use common sense. If your running is comfortable and somewhat slow, but not too slow, then it is probably recovery training and beneficial.

Running very slowly is ok in certain circumstances. When you are recovering from a hard workout/race/long run, it is an excellent choice. Not only does slow running facilitate recovery by moving out damaged tissue and supplying nutrients for repair, it keeps the capillaries open and the mitochondria of slow twitch fibers stimulated.

The worst thing you can do is run too fast on a regular basis. You burn up your glycogen and thus have no energy to run really fast in a race. And, I think you probably jeopardize your health, too, because your endrocrine system becomes exhausted. Thus, you'll become ill quite easily.

If you run too fast on your distance runs between scheduled key workouts, then you won't run your key workouts very well. So, you might as well not run key workouts if you run fast on a daily basis.

Some rough general rules of thumb for paces (but always go by feel):

Recovery Runs - current 5k pace plus 2.5 minutes per mile.
Regular Easy runs - current 5k plus 2 minutes per mile.
Long Tempos - current 5k plus plus about 1:15-1:30 per mile
Medium Tempos - current 5k pace plus 45-60 seconds per mile.
Short Tempos - current 5k pace plus 30-45 seconds per mile.

A bit on tempos I posted before on here below:

In my opinion, what you use for tempos depends upon (at least) four factors:

1) your current fitness level. The slower you are or the less fit you are the more likely you should use lower intensities;

2) your goal race-distance. The shorter the race distance distance the more important it would be to use harder (faster) tempos in training;

3) your time-frame. If you are far away from your goal race, using lower intensity, longer duration tempos is a good idea (this is my opinion based on experience only). The closer you are to a race the more important it is to simulate the type of intensity you'll be facing in a race. Thus, if you were close to a big 5k race then using fast tempos would be a good idea. If you are close to a marathon race, longer but slower tempos would probably work well and be the most helpful in terms of improving race-performance.

4) your natural capacities. Simply put, one runner may thrive on faster but shorter tempos while another may thrive on longer and slower tempos. It's a personal thing.


Tergat

bart simpson

tempo wrote: »

I would love to know what pace everyone runs at on here.
I range from 6.30-8mins but overall avearge would be 7min miles.
I usually wear a heart rate monitor and as my fitness has improved over the last few months my pace has increased but still in the same hear rate zone.
I have been reading up on a lot of previous top runners logs and it seems most would run their recovery runs alot faster(of course depends on level they run at)
But most of these guys where running 6min miles or below.
Times have changed but European standards have dropped compared to the 80's so maybe more gains are to be made from running a little faster on recovery runs.
i just find I need to run at 7min miles to get the recovery and to keep the niggles and injuries away.My body breaks down very easily when pushing it too much.
Any opinions on the above????

if you did say a 5 mile in 32 minutes according to mc millian (and tergat) your recovery runs should be over 8:41 and easy runs should be over 7:41, i aiint know expert at on on this topic just passing on what i read, you might get away with running a bit faster than these limits but id say most "gurus" would say that 7 min miles is too fast for your recovery runs

Edit: was writing post before tergat posted, ignore my post

copacetic

Woddle wrote: »

I think your wrong, I think I read it somewhere (possibly an Irish runner article) that the top Kenyans are known to run as slow as 9 minute miles on their recovery runs.

When I was training properly last year, I ran 33'07 for 5 miles and my easy run pace would be 8'00 to 8'30, this was far too fast. I used to wonder why I always felt tired, I know now

agreed, possibly the same article quoted a number of people as saying your average runner runs their fast runs too slow and their slow runs too fast.

RacoonQueen

I filled in a form on runners world a while ago which gave me a run down of the pace I should be running at in training based on my race pace. Can't seem to find it now but it put me down for LSR pace of up to over 10 mins/mile. If I ran any slower than 9:15 during a LSR I'd speed up.

menoscemo

The most important thing I have learned this year (mainly thanks to tergat and others) is to slow down the runs on recovery days. Now I run Intervals and tempos much faster than before (6-7min/miles depending on distance) while running recovery/ easy runs at 8:45/mile +. In general this has really improved my training, I enjoy it more and I can do much better weekly mileage without getting injured. My race tmes have also improved dramatically.

If there is one piece of advice I could give to newbie runner it is: run your slow runs very slow and this will allow you to run your fast runs fast.

Up until a few moths ago, on my slowest runs I had an AvHr of low 150's, now it is 137-143. What I though were my slow runs before were not slow at all.

tempo

copacetic wrote: »

agreed, possibly the same article quoted a number of people as saying your average runner runs their fast runs too slow and their slow runs too fast.

Im not talking about the current crop of Africans,im going back to Coughlan,Cram,ovett ect

Gringo78

tempo wrote: »

I have been reading up on a lot of previous top runners logs and it seems most would run their recovery runs alot faster(of course depends on level they run at)
But most of these guys where running 6min miles or below.

I've only seen very few logs of the top guys but all looked to me to be running the recoveries proportionally slower than most amateurs. A top runner has a 5k pace of less than 4:30 per mile. Going by Tergats post, their absolute slowest recovery would be 7min/mile. Logs I've seen show 13:xx 5km runners running 7-8min miles. I'd be interested in seeing the logs where they wrote down 6min/ml pace as recovery runs.

For a 45mpw program, with LSR, tempo & interval session I'd expect the average pace for the 45 miles to fall out at at least 5km pace + 1.75min, probably more.

In the last 6months I have slowed my recoverys and have had a long period now injury free off the back of this and have increased my race paces by 30sec/ml. My training paces range from 5:15 to >8:00. HR is a great tool for doing recovery runs at the correct pace, keep the pace to less than 70% HRR. You should be using the full range of your HRR, 65% HRR up to 95-99% HRR.

As Amadeus said, every run has a purpose. but in addition to that, every run will only have the optimum training effect if the 2 days before & after it were utilised with what was to come and what came before in mind i.e no use trying to set a meaningless PB up a local hill on a Monday when you have a track session planned on the Tuesday.

Hard sessions break you down so you grow back stronger. Run too fast afterwards and you break down too much and get injured.

Gringo78

tempo wrote: »

I range from 6.30-8mins but overall avearge would be 7min miles.

I probably read this wrong after having a look at your log - Is 6:30-8:00 the range of your easy/recovery pace rather than your overall training pace range? If thats the case, ignore the above, it was on the basis your 5k pace was 6:30, your recovery pace was 8:00 which is too narrow a range.

I wouldn't push the recovery's much faster than 7:00 though, can't see the benefit. Concentrate on getting the best you can out of 2 hard sessions per week.

boccy23

Hi guys

Very interest in the above as a complete newbie runner who just goes and runs and never really thought about what I was trying to achieve. Thanks to Amadeus for the advice.

One thing I find is that i will set out for the LSR or recovery runs at a very slow even pace. But as the body warms up (or stops complaining probably) I speed up to where I am running at what is my normal pace of 5:10 to 5:30 / km.

What is the best way to keep the pace more consistent without resorting to expensive watches?

--amadeus--

boccy23 wrote: »

Hi guys

Very interest in the above as a complete newbie runner who just goes and runs and never really thought about what I was trying to achieve. Thanks to Amadeus for the advice.

One thing I find is that i will set out for the LSR or recovery runs at a very slow even pace. But as the body warms up (or stops complaining probably) I speed up to where I am running at what is my normal pace of 5:10 to 5:30 / km.

What is the best way to keep the pace more consistent without resorting to expensive watches?

I do the same thing, I think it's natural that you'll pick up the pace a litle as you go, it's really just a question of expereince and paying attention.

Probably too deep an explanation but you asked so here goes....

There are two types of running - Associative and Disassociative. Associative is where the runners is tuned in to the act of running, they are concentrating on the signals and feedback from thier body and are monitoring it for signs of stress. For example listening to your rate of breathing, thinking about your cadence or concentrating on your gait.

Disassociative runners think about everything BUT the run - they look at the surroundings, think about work, TV, whatever.

Elites apparently always run associativley and so should you in a race (although the mental effort on a longer race is exhausting itself). It's when you are in a disassociative state that pace will drift up or down. My advice, FWIW, is to be aware and "tune in" to your body (in other words run associativley) every x minutes or Y kms; do a quick health check - how's your breathing, have you sped up, how's the gait, how are the legs? That will help slow you down and you can then go back to thinking about whatever and enjoy the run!

jayok77

If you train with a HR monitor this will give you the best results IMO.

Working with '% of Max HR' is the best tool as it's measuring your current effort, especially useful if your run down or tired. You just have to keep within the zones and your pace will go up or down according to your effort, terrain and what state your body is in.

The fitter you get, the faster your slower runs will automatically become as you have to stay within those zones. If your body is tired your heart will tell you. I'm surprised more people dont use it.

Rough outline of what I work with:

• Easy : 70%-77%
• Easy/Steady: 76%-84%
• Steady: 83%-86%
• Steady / Hard: 85%-90%
• Hard: 90%+

neilc

jayok77 wrote: »

If you train with a HR monitor this will give you the best results IMO.

Working with '% of Max HR' is the best tool as it's measuring your current effort, especially useful if your run down or tired. You just have to keep within the zones and your pace will go up or down according to your effort, terrain and what state your body is in.

The fitter you get, the faster your slower runs will automatically become as you have to stay within those zones. If your body is tired your heart will tell you. I'm surprised more people dont use it.

Rough outline of what I work with:

• Easy : 70%-77%
• Easy/Steady: 76%-84%
• Steady: 83%-86%
• Steady / Hard: 85%-90%
• Hard: 90%+

I've finally taken the plunge and just ordered a Garmin 405. The idea is to use it to get more intelligent with my training after picking up a couple of injuries last year. Question is how do you guys determine max heart rate. Is it good enough to go with the 220 minus your age.
Regards,
Neil

Simmo39

If you have spent your hard earned cash on a garmin 405 i would go that extra step further and get a V02 test and you will get all the correct heartrate zones to be training in and that will save you from injury and overtraining in the future.

jayok77

You can pay up to €200+ for a Vo2Max test. That can be more than some watches, if you have the cash then why not I suppose. Another way of determining your Max HR is:

HRMax test (to find you max heart rate):

1. Run 800m all out on the track, record your highest HR, rest 2 min
2. Run 400m all out on the track, record your highest HR
3. Compare the two numbers and select the highest. That’s your max HR.

This I'm sure will do any beginner or novice for a season or two. If your getting competitive then I would invest some money in a Vo2Max test.