Daniels' Running Formula

Peckham

I've read the book, and have been back over bits of it. I may have missed some detail in it, as some of my reading was done on the bus home from work when I've a tendency to doze off.

I'm really liking some of the content - the way he explains speedwork is much clearer than anything else I've read (I never knew there was a difference between intervals and reps), and his approach to incorporating tempo within long runs is probably what I need to include in my training.

But anyway, a few questions that others who've read the book might be able to help me clarify. Naturally my focus is on his marathon training plan, but some of the concepts may apply across some of the other plans.

1) Q1 and Q2 sessions - these make sense, but where do I get the rest of my weekly mileage from? Do I just do everything else at "Easy" pace, and be sensible in terms of how the miles are distributed across the days. For example, on a plan that has a 60 mile week max, week 10 would have 54 miles. The Q1 and Q2 sessions would equal 18 miles, which leaves 36 miles to be done over 4 sessions, i.e. 9 miles average for each of the other sessions. But the long run for that week (Q1) would be 13 miles.....that doesn't really make sense to me.

2) If the answer to the above is Yes, then that's a lot of mileage at "Easy" pace. For a sub-3 marathon runner, that's 8min pace according to his VDOT values. That's a lot of slow miles.

3) 1 week left before race starts with the day that's 7 days before the race. If your race is a Sunday, then 7 days before that is the Sunday of the week before, and for this day it schedules a 1.5 hour run. Fine. However, the Q1 session of the previous week (circa 12 mile run) would also be that day or the day before. That can't be right.

tunguska

Hi Peckham, it takes a while to get your head around this book, its like Bladerunner, lots going on that you dont get the first time around.

Anyway I'll try to answer your questions.......

Peckham wrote: »

1) Q1 and Q2 sessions - these make sense, but where do I get the rest of my weekly mileage from? Do I just do everything else at "Easy" pace, and be sensible in terms of how the miles are distributed across the days. For example, on a plan that has a 60 mile week max, week 10 would have 54 miles. The Q1 and Q2 sessions would equal 18 miles, which leaves 36 miles to be done over 4 sessions, i.e. 9 miles average for each of the other sessions. But the long run for that week (Q1) would be 13 miles.....that doesn't really make sense to me.

2) If the answer to the above is Yes, then that's a lot of mileage at "Easy" pace. For a sub-3 marathon runner, that's 8min pace according to his VDOT values. That's a lot of slow miles. (Who does he think I am - TheRoadRunner?! )

I take it youre working from plan A? If so then what he suggests in week 10 is in Q1 to do a run thats 25% of weekly total (or a run that lasts 2.5 hours). Q2 is 6% of weekly total(in this case 54miles) so thats 3.25approx. plus 8k(5miles). So in total thats approximately 21.75miles for the Q1 & Q2. Which leaves 32 miles to be run over the other 4(or 5 days) Which is 8 miles a pop over 4 days. I know this seems like a lot of easy sessions but rememebr that youre still only in Phase II at this stage. Once you get to Phase III thats when the tough stuff really kicks in.

I mean if you take week 17 for example, Q1 is 2 miles easy + 2x(10-12mins T pace)+10miles Easy+15-20mins T pace+ 2miles easy.
Thats a about 20miles in one session. So you'll need your easy stuff to recover on the other days.

Peckham wrote: »

3) 1 week left before race starts with the day that's 7 days before the race. If your race is a Sunday, then 7 days before that is the Sunday of the week before, and for this day it schedules a 1.5 hour run. Fine. However, the Q1 session of the previous week (circa 12 mile run) would also be that day or the day before. That can't be right.

Im not 100% sure what youre getting at in this question???

Peckham

Thanks tunguska, yes I'm using the Plan A approach

Your comments about points 1 & 2 were what I suspected. The whole concept of him just providing a Q1 and Q2 session and then leaving the rest up to you is quite surprising - yes, it works well for seasoned runners who are familiar with the structure of a training plan, but for novices (at whom the book is also aimed, and there's a similar training plan for) it's inviting trouble.

As for my point 3, I would take the approach of my Q2 session on a Tues/Weds and my Q1 long run on a Saturday. So that means for the penultimate week of training, I'd do that Q1 session (circa 1.5 hours) on the Saturday, 8 days before the race. However, he then schedules another 1.5 hour run (albeit at easy pace) on the Sunday. That seems like a lot.

I'm certainly not trying to knock the plan, and it's definitely the type of plan I'll need to use to overcome some of my marathon weaknesses.....but I just feel it's not the clearest structure.

tunguska

Peckham wrote: »

Thanks tunguska, yes I'm using the Plan A approach

Your comments about points 1 & 2 were what I suspected. The whole concept of him just providing a Q1 and Q2 session and then leaving the rest up to you is quite surprising - yes, it works well for seasoned runners who are familiar with the structure of a training plan, but for novices (at whom the book is also aimed, and there's a similar training plan for) it's inviting trouble.

As for my point 3, I would take the approach of my Q2 session on a Tues/Weds and my Q1 long run on a Saturday. So that means for the penultimate week of training, I'd do that Q1 session (circa 1.5 hours) on the Saturday, 8 days before the race. However, he then schedules another 1.5 hour run (albeit at easy pace) on the Sunday. That seems like a lot.

I'm certainly not trying to knock the plan, and it's definitely the type of plan I'll need to use to overcome some of my marathon weaknesses.....but I just feel it's not the clearest structure.

I think maybe youre jumping ahead a little too much Peckham. I mean you havent followed one of JDs programs before so Youre not sure what will happen. You just gotta follow the program and have faith that this guy knows what he's talking about. The point is, you look at whats written down in the book and you're thinking thats too much or whatever, but you wont know how fit you'll be when you get to week 23 or 24 and what he's presrcibed, you could find at that time, is spot on. You could find that when you get to that point having followed the program that you find it easy enough, even though looking at it on a page a few months ago it seemed daunting.

Im following his elite marathon plan and the first time I looked at that plan I thought he must be having a laugh. Some of those sessions look unbelievable at first glance. But then I gave them a go and sessions that I thought were beyond me, turned out to be ok, I could handle them.
So overall what Im saying is, give it a go, leap of faith I know, but like I said, this guy knows his running.

Peckham

You're right tunguska - I am jumping ahead of myself (but isn't that what designing a training plan is all about?! )

I'm going to use it as the structure for my Berlin marathon plan, albeit I'll be jumping into the plan a good few weeks into it.

Some of the later long runs do indeed look quite intimidating, but they'll certainly address my strength (or lack of) in the final miles of a race....

Long run with 5 weeks to go:
2 miles easy
4 x 5-6mins threshold pace with 1 min rest between
10 miles easy
4 x 5-6mins threshold pace with 1 min rest between
2 miles easy

If that doesn't strengthen you up for the final miles, nothing will!