Question about first aid for babies / todders.

Deliverance

Saw a 10-12month old (approx), munching on a whole apple next to me at the supermarket checkout today. Child momentarily coughs and looks to be in a bit of trouble.

Panic mode sets in and all eyes are on the baby. After a v.long 10secs the baby manages to work it up and out. It was a very long 10seconds.

Anyway based on the above what could someone do in this situation if the child had got into real trouble i.e would it have been appropriate and not more dangerous for a layperson like myself to take action. I have a decent knowledge of first aid in this area and some formal training as well.

Not asking for medical advice really just moral advice advice on this scenario. if no one else was able to do anything and if worse came to worse in this case would it be advisable to just dive in with what you know and hope for the best? Better than sitting back and doing nothing surely?

Ickle Magoo

I think if a child is choking to the point that they are going blue or clearly struggling to breathe then anything is worth a go, isn't it? Even just doing what you can to dislodge the foodstuff until medical personnel arrive.

In the situation you give, I'd probably alert the parents/guardians first of all, look around hurriedly for better qualified help and if there was none in the immediate vicinity & the parents/guardians didn't know what to do - depending on gravity of situation, of course - I'd grab child and do the finger scoop/lay them over my knee myself.

Deliverance

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I think if a child is choking to the point that they are going blue or clearly struggling to breathe then anything is worth a go, isn't it? Even just doing what you can to dislodge the foodstuff until medical personnel arrive.

In the situation you give, I'd probably alert the parents/guardians first of all, look around hurriedly for better qualified help and if there was none in the immediate vicinity & the parents/guardians didn't know what to do - depending on gravity of situation, of course - I'd grab child and do the finger scoop/lay them over my knee myself.

Haven't heard of the finger scoop, how does that work. What i thought of doing was laying the child over my knee with the childs head lower down and palming slaps on the back to dislodge the obstruction using gravity as a first move.

Would I have been right in doing this if it had to be done? Plus if this did not work and the child was turning blue I would have turned the child over and attempted to 'use my thumb to pump the diaphram to try to dislodge the obstruction.

Ickle Magoo

Well, I think the first move for food obstructions is to see where it is - if it's near the top of the wind pipe then hooking your little finger in the back of the throat behind the food and "spooning" it out works best, if it's further down then it's a case of lying the child over your knee or - if a small child - on one hand with the heel of the hand into the diaphragm and slapping the back.

It's a situation I hope never to be in. There was a toddler died in a restaurant just down the road after choking on a sausage. Doctors and nurses dining near by and nobody could dislodge it. Nightmare stuff.

CJhaughey

Up to one year you lay the infant face down on your forearm and support the head and give up to 5 back slaps.
If that doesn't work turn them over and give them up to 5 chest thrusts with 2 fingers inwards and upwards one fingers breadth below the nipple line.

Deliverance

That is pretty horrible. Sausages are notorious for doing this they are the perfect choking shape as they are the same shape as the esophagus. I always cut them long ways to prevent this.

lynski

Deliverance wrote: »

Not asking for medical advice really just moral advice advice on this scenario. if no one else was able to do anything and if worse came to worse in this case would it be advisable to just dive in with what you know and hope for the best? Better than sitting back and doing nothing surely?

If you are in the kildare area you might be interested in this:
http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/event.php?eid=118841954817162 Introduction to Pediatric First Aid.

deisemum

Here's a video demonstration on what to do if a baby is choking.

http://childrenfirstaid.redcross.org.uk/choking/chokingvideo

If I witnessed it happening I'd alert the parent and if the parent didn't know what to do or was in a panic then I'd say I'm an occupational first aider and do my best until medical help arrived hoping that 25 + years of being a first-aider would stand to me.

I've had to deal with a choking child in the past and it worked out fine.

Nevyn

I think that if possible all parents or parent to be should try and do a frist aid course that focuses on infants upwards or at least have a guide to first aid and children in the house and read it.

krankykitty

I did a first aid course a while back, and apparently you're not supposed to do a blind finger scoop into a child's mouth as you could touch off the vagus nerve at the back of their throat, which can apparently cause cardiac arrest. It's fine if you look into their mouth and can see the item and can remove it that way.

deisemum

krankykitty wrote: »

I did a first aid course a while back, and apparently you're not supposed to do a blind finger scoop into a child's mouth as you could touch off the vagus nerve at the back of their throat, which can apparently cause cardiac arrest. It's fine if you look into their mouth and can see the item and can remove it that way.

I've been taught the same but was told that when you're looking to see if the object of the obstruction has moved to have the baby's face turned to the side and not facing upwards to avoid the object going back down the throat and to then try and do the blind finger sweep avoiding the back of the throat.

Nevyn

The best practice in first aid situations changes all the time and is always being updated which is why first aiders have to constantly get recertified.

deisemum

Thaedydal wrote: »

The best practice in first aid situations changes all the time and is always being updated which is why first aiders have to constantly get recertified.

Yeah every 2 years now and with choking you've got to be ready to suddenly start doing CPR and the number of compressions has doubled to what it was when I first started doing first aid courses.

krankykitty

The course I did was last year, though knowing first aid it's probably changed already!

deisemum

Thaedydal wrote: »

I think that if possible all parents or parent to be should try and do a frist aid course that focuses on infants upwards or at least have a guide to first aid and children in the house and read it.

I agree with this and think it's so important. After all when pregnant most mums to be attend ante-natal classes so why not attend some first aid classes. At the very least you'll hopefully feel a bit more confident if the worst happens.

Karlos13

Best thing is not to give a child that young an apple in the first place. What were they thinking?

All4shopping

Prevention is better than cure! Totally agree with Karlos13

Deliverance

Interesting and informative responses as usual. My formal first aid is way out of date but my general interest is up to date out of concern as a parent for my own child. I keep myself up to date via the net with reputable sources for my own peace of mind.

In a way I intially panicked a bit about being responsible about the possibility of having to do something if the child in this case started to actually choke and was in need of genuine assistance.

I am personally very fearful and very aware about choking hazards, I would class myself as an overprotective parent in this area by design. That is just me.

Thanks for the great feedback and links they are very helpful to say the least.

I have two genuine experiences of choking that I was luckily able to aleviate in older people that I knew personally. The episode in the supermarket was scary to me even more so because morally I felt more scared about doing something because they were strangers.

Ps and yes giving a child a whole apple to me was amazingly uninformed by the parents in question. Shockingly they left the child with the apple after what 'to me' seemed like a potential tradgedy waiting to happen.

As usual I write to much but it was a scary thing for me to witness. To be honest my legs were weak and shaky for awhile afterwards.

deisemum

Children have choked and died from swallowing a single jelly tot so it just goes to show that even at that size these things can happen.

LegacyUser

OP, my boyfriend is a lifeguard with a lot of first aid training. I have been in situations with him, and several of his friends where someone needed that help, and they just jump in and do it. If there is someone there with more medical knowledge, they'll step back and let them take charge, but usually they are the only ones. It's happened in a church, on a DART....several paces. The person's relatives/friends tend to be so relieved that someone seems to know what they are doing, there's never any problems - once it's obvious that the person in question has a serious problem. The worst was on the train, when a tourist had a massive stroke - I'm assuming that's what it was - and we had to get him off the train and carry out mouth to mouth. The 20 minutes waiting for the ambulance to show up was the longest 20 minutes of my life, but it brought a sort of relief to his wife and friends to see that someone was trying to help, that somebody knew what they were doing, rather than people standing around helplessly while he lay there.
It's one of the best skills you can teach your child in life.

ash23

I did a first aid course last year and was told if the person was conscious then to ask them/their parent for permission before acting.
If they were unconscious then state to bystanders that you are trained in first aid and that you are going to check the person. If you are checking their pockets etc for medication, to explain what you are doing.

I've only had to use it once and there was nobody around, the guy was unconscious so I just tried to rouse him and when that didn't work I followed the procedures I'd been shown.

Personally in the OPs case I would have waited until it were obvious the object was not going to dislodge and I would have then said to the parents that I was trained in first aid and could I help.
I would have shouted for someone to call and ambulance and asked store staff to see if there was someone more qualified in the store (announcing over the tannoy for a doctor or nurse etc as my training is fairly basic.

cynder

my lad choked on a jelly sweet, i put him over my knee and dislodged it after about 50 seconds, by then he was fitting. poor pet.

Deliverance

grindelwald wrote: »

my lad choked on a jelly sweet, i put him over my knee and dislodged it after about 50 seconds, by then he was fitting. poor pet.

That must have been terrifying! Plus nearly a minute to dislodge!! Fair play to you for being so calm and efficient.

Again thanks for further replies. I feel more confident now about how to act and what actions to take in a public situation. First aid is a kind of grey area really.

cynder

Deliverance wrote: »

That must have been terrifying! Plus nearly a minute to dislodge!! Fair play to you for being so calm and efficient.

It was terrifying, never want to go there again.