Sonny Bill Williams

handsomecake

what do you make of his efforts at rugby union?

the allblacks are courting his signature big time with a view to him playing itn cup rugby this summer and then going on the end of season tour to the northern hemisphere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXVUlrTX414

as an aside i hear karmichael (kamikaze) hunt is leaving biarritz after one season to play aussie rules!

wixfjord

handsomecake wrote: »

what do you make of his efforts at rugby union?

the allblacks are courting his signature big time with a view to him playing itn cup rugby this summer and then going on the end of season tour to the northern hemisphere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXVUlrTX414

as an aside i hear karmichael (kamikaze) hunt is leaving biarritz after one season to play aussie rules!

An absolutely unreal athlethe and would love to see him get a crack at the ABs. Did I hear that hes being touted as a 6 or am I mad? Some massively talented SH rugby league players Id love to see in union, Inglis, Hayne, Slater all come to mind.

subfreq

Give him space like that and he will mill people out of it every time with his grounding in Rugby League man up tackling.

Totally different kettle of fish whether he would have the stones for International rugby as a centre. Positionally I think he would get found out.

Shows how desperate the All blacks are to pull in talent going into the WC next year.

Surprising they are going all out for him in particular when they have good players in that area of the field.

It's tight five forwards they should be courting.

I would love it if he does come on the autumn tour and pays against a D'Arcy/BOD combo.

Stev_o

subfreq wrote: »

Give him space like that and he will mill people out of it every time with his grounding in Rugby League man up tackling.

Totally different kettle of fish whether he would have the stones for International rugby as a centre. Positionally I think he would get found out.

Shows how desperate the All blacks are to pull in talent going into the WC next year.

Surprising they are going all out for him in particular when they have good players in that area of the field.

It's tight five forwards they should be courting.

I would love it if he does come on the autumn tour and pays against a D'Arcy/BOD combo.

He'd easily out play D'Arcy at 12, the guy has unreal talents the only thing iv yet to see him do is kick, hell his passing is far better then any other NH and possibly SH player around it's like seeing Larkham pass the ball and to think we played in the forwards in RL.

He can easily be the best 12 in World Rugby within a year of playing International rugby.

thomond2006

If I was Graham Henry he would be the most important player to bring home for the RWC. The guy oozes class.

Karmichael Hunt is indeed leaving rugby to play Aussie Rules.

irishbucsfan

handsomecake wrote: »

as an aside i hear karmichael (kamikaze) hunt is leaving biarritz after one season to play aussie rules!

That was agreed a long time before he ever signed for Biarritz.

The only reason he was free to go to the T14 was that the AFL team he signed for are the AFL equivalent of the Rebels, and don't start playing until next season.

davyjose

handsomecake wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXVUlrTX414

Is it just me, or did anyone else think that tackle was a touch illegal. Ploughed him with the shoulder. Nice League tackle - not sure about Rugby Union though.

So frustrating to watch play when he's on the team you're supporting. He constantly carries the ball in one hand into contact, and will need to iron out this tendency.

He's a serious athlete though, as proven by his boxing match alone!

Hope he does well in Rugby Union, good for the game to have high profile players crossing codes imo.

AdeT

subfreq wrote: »

Totally different kettle of fish whether he would have the stones for International rugby as a centre. Positionally I think he would get found out.

Surprising they are going all out for him in particular when they have good players in that area of the field.

I would love it if he does come on the autumn tour and pays against a D'Arcy/BOD combo.

He's an absolute giant with speed, strength, good hands, a big hit, hits a good line and has a good off loading games. He has also played in the most intense club competition in the world (my opinion only) in the NRL so I don't think he would struggle to "have the stones". His weakness, as Clarissa Plump Shootout said, is his tendancy to carry the ball around in one hand and his relative inexperience in RU. There are very few, if any, centres in world rugby who are as athletic as this guy

I think in the ABs he could be even better with all that class around him.

I reckon he'd comfortably get the better of D'arcy, although D'arcy's experience would be a big leveller.

JustinDee

subfreq wrote: »

Totally different kettle of fish whether he would have the stones for International rugby as a centre. Positionally I think he would get found out

"Positionally"? Its not exactly rocket science we're talking here.
Sonny Bill's biggest bugbear is his injury history. If he stays fit, he'll stroll into the All Blacks side. Not a conventional player by any means but during the latter half of the season he has strung good performances together. Doesn't lose the ball in contact, has strides and pace to burn and is very very hard hitter. His master strength is his offload. Because he has excellent hands and is so hard to bring down, play continues with this fella in possession, tackled or not.

subfreq wrote: »

Shows how desperate the All blacks are to pull in talent going into the WC next year

Any international side in the world would be climbing over each other to have Sonny Bill on their teamsheet and he's still only 24 yrs old.
Absolutely brilliant prospect in rugby league and the same in rugby union.

subfreq wrote: »

Surprising they are going all out for him in particular when they have good players in that area of the field.

You just said they were desperate!

JustinDee

davyjose wrote: »

Is it just me, or did anyone else think that tackle was a touch illegal. Ploughed him with the shoulder. Nice League tackle - not sure about Rugby Union though.

It was absolutely fine. His arms are being used in the tackle.

PhatPiggins

Stev_o wrote: »

He'd easily out play D'Arcy at 12, the guy has unreal talents the only thing iv yet to see him do is kick, hell his passing is far better then any other NH and possibly SH player around it's like seeing Larkham pass the ball and to think we played in the forwards in RL.

He can easily be the best 12 in World Rugby within a year of playing International rugby.

The problem I have with Sonny is that he hasn't improved at all in union since he crossed over. I saw him play his first 3 games last season and was impressed as he was just dropped straight in. He's got no better this season and has only been a bit part player for Toulon. 12/13 is not his best position, he's like a fish flapping on land at times. He'd be wasted at six.

He was on course to be the greatest league player ever but is potentially only a decent union player. Darcy would have no problem containing him.

JustinDee

PhatPiggins wrote: »

He was on course to be the greatest league player ever but is potentially only a decent union player. Darcy would have no problem containing him.

I have to laugh at 'facts' like these.

BoarHunter

Stev_o wrote: »

He'd easily out play D'Arcy at 12, the guy has unreal talents the only thing iv yet to see him do is kick, hell his passing is far better then any other NH and possibly SH player around it's like seeing Larkham pass the ball and to think we played in the forwards in RL.

He can easily be the best 12 in World Rugby within a year of playing International rugby.

I keep Jauzion and leave Sonny Bill to the NZ

Stev_o

BoarHunter wrote: »

I keep Jauzion and leave Sonny Bill to the NZ

He's better then Jauzion, makes Jauzion look like a prop compared to him.

People trying to play him down are having a laugh this guy is truly outstanding athlete who this season for Toulon along with Wilkinson has been there cornerstone in attack and defence. Against Perpignan on the last match of the T14 he completely dominated in attack and defence and once again his ability to break the line and offload helped win them the game.

d'Oracle

Fabulous talent, destructive defender and dangerous attacker.

And a stupid wanker off the pitch to boot!

subfreq

I stand by it and watch with interest when he goes down south. He'll chew teams up in the early domestic games due to the level but the Autumn tour and S15 is where we will really see.

I'm not too excited by his offloading in the French league. It's classic RL forward play. Take the tackle and try and keep the ball free for an off load. He is playing against teams that have little schooling in defending this and he has the size to pull it off.

In higher quality games this aspect would be greatly reduced in his game.

What you are left with then is a great physical ball carrier in the Jamie Roberts mould but with obviously more potential going forward.

By saying does he have the stone I don't mean is he hard enough. I still think that midfield positional defense is by no means easy.

A lot more grass to cover and it's a lot more cerebral than he would have ever been used to in League.

He has shown potential but hasn't been truly tested yet.

I am sure Henry back the quality around him in the AB's to be enough to cover over any of these questions while they can simply run him into the likes of Quade Cooper, Giteau, Trin Duc etc. It's certainly worth a go.

I'n not saying he's not a good player just that they have more pressing areas that need addressing.

toomevara

Stev_o wrote: »

He's better then Jauzion, makes Jauzion look like a prop compared to him.

Like yourself Stev_o, with an interest in rugby league, I've been watching this guy play for a few years and its difficult to over-estimate how talented he is, and also the excellence of his achievement in making the conversion from the XIII man game. A massive, massive talent, with a huge future in Union. He has it all, physique, fitness, skill, superb rugby brain. there are few players in world rugby in his position in either code who can touch him. He'd walk in to any international side you care to name (again in either code) at the minute given the opportunity, and that's not something you get to say that often.

JustinDee

subfreq wrote: »

In higher quality games this aspect would be greatly reduced in his game.

What you are left with then is a great physical ball carrier in the Jamie Roberts mould but with obviously more potential going forward

Except that when SBW has the ball there is a 90% greater chance that a teammate in support will receive it instead of seeing it disappearing after yet another bish-bosh bang through the defensive line.

subfreq wrote: »

By saying does he have the stone I don't mean is he hard enough. I still think that midfield positional defense is by no means easy
A lot more grass to cover and it's a lot more cerebral than he would have ever been used to in League

This is just waffle by someone who clearly misconceives RL and even gets their own code wrong. There is nothing less 'cerebral' about defending in an RL midfield. This is why we have scores of RL coaches involved in defence in the first place.

Midfield defence in a modern pro-RU side is rarely pivoted around a centre. You will find the bulk of a back-rowers tackle count coming from the midfield.

subfreq wrote: »

He has shown potential but hasn't been truly tested yet

He is 24 years old, has big game experience and a larger skillset than most his age.

toomevara

subfreq wrote: »

A lot more grass to cover and it's a lot more cerebral than he would have ever been used to in League.

That's just not the case. Defensively, centre is a far, far more difficult position to play in league, and a lot, lot busier to boot. Although in SBW's case he played second row. I'd imagine ol' SB can't believe how little he's got to do in defence in an average RU 80, compared to the type of work he'd be expected to put in, in an NRL game. The complexity, speed and depth of the average RL backline play far eclipses its union counterpart.

wixfjord

JustinDee wrote: »

I have to laugh at 'facts' like these.

What you mean facts like these:

JustinDee wrote: »

"Positionally"? Its not exactly rocket science we're talking here.
Sonny Bill's biggest bugbear is his injury history. If he stays fit, he'll stroll into the All Blacks side. Not a conventional player by any means but during the latter half of the season he has strung good performances together. Doesn't lose the ball in contact, has strides and pace to burn and is very very hard hitter. His master strength is his offload. Because he has excellent hands and is so hard to bring down, play continues with this fella in possession, tackled or not.


Any international side in the world would be climbing over each other to have Sonny Bill on their teamsheet and he's still only 24 yrs old.
Absolutely brilliant prospect in rugby league and the same in rugby union.


You just said they were desperate!

The old Justin is back

AdeT

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Darcy would have no problem containing him.

There isn't a centre in the world who would have "no problem containing him"...

I'm not saying he's the best in the world; i think on their days jauzion and De Villiers have the capacity to get the better of him, but they would have a job on their hands containing him

subfreq

Toom, the point I was trying to make and badly it seems I admit is that SBW is coming from being a RL forward to learning the trade as inside center in RU having by his own admission never played the game.

I wasn't comparing the midfield of RL and RU.

There are some who seem to think positional play in the midfield is pretty easy which I am fairly shocked by.

I'll get pilloried for anything I say I know but it's the first time I have ever seen an AB jersey handed out before a fella has proved he can do the business at the required level. Despite how many talents SBW has he hasn't done that yet in RU.

I stand by my statement that if he starts against Ireland in the Autumn and Ireland is at max strength ie POC and Ferris are fit then the BOD/GD will win the day.

SBW is not a one man team if he was Toulon would not have an empty trophy cabinet this summer. He's just part of the machine and the AB's as I keep saying have other position both on and off the field more important than bringing him in.

Fishtits

Ya Ya he plays this position or that position etc.

Toulon have offered him 6 Million

NZRU have offered him an AB jersey for the RWC programme, and all the rice he can eat...

He'd be a tit to turn down 6 Mil IMHO

PS Toulon is the French version of Ballymun, I'm sure with his salary he could find something acceptable in the hills that suround the place.

Stev_o

Fishtits wrote: »

Ya Ya he plays this position or that position etc.

Toulon have offered him 6 Million

NZRU have offered him an AB jersey for the RWC programme, and all the rice he can eat...

He'd be a tit to turn down 6 Mil IMHO

PS Toulon is the French version of Ballymun, I'm sure with his salary he could find something acceptable in the hills that suround the place.

Read the story of how this guy started playing RU, he ll take the AB shirt.

rockman15

anyone who says SBW is goiing to make an AB's side needs to remember hes up against Ma'a Nonu, who had a slow start to the S14, but finished the last 6/7 games at a frightening level of play. the issue of him not having great hands has also been put to bed this yea.

Id take Nonu any day over SBW and as loyal a leinster fan as i am, it would be a tough decision between Nonu and D'arcy!

irishbucsfan

rockman15 wrote: »

anyone who says SBW is goiing to make an AB's side needs to remember hes up against Ma'a Nonu, who had a slow start to the S14, but finished the last 6/7 games at a frightening level of play. the issue of him not having great hands has also been put to bed this yea.

Id take Nonu any day over SBW and as loyal a leinster fan as i am, it would be a tough decision between Nonu and D'arcy!

Nonu is injured, he ruptured his PCL.

sock puppet

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Nonu is injured, he ruptured his PCL.

If he did go over they wouldn't seriously consider playing him in this year's tri-nations would they? That'd be a slap in the face to every other player in the country. He should have to play in the domestic competition first.

JustinDee

wixfjord wrote: »

What you mean facts like these:
The old Justin is back

You won't find a coach out there who could find a reason not to select him in their squad.

Ciaran-Irl

toomevara wrote: »

The complexity, speed and depth of the average RL backline play far eclipses its union counterpart.

Do you mean defensively or generally?

amacachi

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

Do you mean defensively or generally?

I'd guess he means both. There's a ****load more to do in the 80 minutes. Also there's a reason why League coaches are being used to teach Union teams how to defend properly.

themont85

$6 million over three has to be a lie, that's 2 million Aussie dollars a year. Thats over 1/7 of the French Salary Cap for next year, on one player. No way will they pay him that.

I'd say he will go south for next season, play NPC and S15 and play for the World Cup and probably head north again.

PhatPiggins

JustinDee wrote: »

I have to laugh at 'facts' like these.

You really are a most unlikeable sort

88show

with mentors like Tana and Bunce, the coaching level that is surpased by none in the AB staff and the mere want and need for any kiwi boy to live an almost unbelievable dream of wearing a real black jersey, then being good enough to play in it; he'll be in the best hands anybody could be.

His ball carrying, that ball is a lot more secure in those hands than they are in a lot of people who use 2. Not saying that everyones comfortable with that but every coach I'm sure will be saying the same thing, 2 hands son, 2 hands, but it works for him.

If he gets the chance to wear a black jersey, after he has had the right mentoring, he would be in the same era possibly as other people who changed the face of rubgy forever that were from NZ. Nepia, Don Clarke, Pine tree, Jonah, kronfeld, and my pick for the greatest player ever Micheal Jones.

I had a chance to talk to Frank Bunce and asked his advice on how to be a good center what do you have to do?
Catch the ball, and run and don't get caught; hit the bugger as hard as you can if he's got it.

I think a lot of people nowadays are over thinking the whole issues about 1 player, several players or even the game in general.
We treat players like SBW and even Brian O and every other person in these spotlights as people bigger than the game.
Nobody is greater than the game, they're just good at it.

Catch the ball, and run and don't get caught; hit the bugger as hard as you can if he's got it.

the best advice I have ever heard on how to play the game.

88show

hate to say BUT! it happened

redroar1942

88show wrote: »

hate to say BUT! it happened

Nice to see a guy put his country first. He's getting peanuts compared to what Toulon were offering. No doubt he'll get another meag deal from europe/NRL after the WC.

evysiren

BoarHunter wrote: »

I keep Jauzion and leave Sonny Bill to the NZ

no

toomevara

This is odd. He wanted to return to RL and his agent made representations to a number of NRL clubs but his pay demands were so outlandish it wasn't an option. NZRU is, contrary to what's being put forward in the press, very much his second choice.

thomond2006

toomevara wrote: »

This is odd. He wanted to return to RL and his agent made representations to a number of NRL clubs but his pay demands were so outlandish it wasn't an option. NZRU is, contrary to what's being put forward in the press, very much his second choice.

I didn't think the NRL would want him back after the whole Bulldogs vs Toulon contract fiasco. They said as much at the time.

toomevara

thomond2006 wrote: »

I didn't think the NRL would want him back after the whole Bulldogs vs Toulon contract fiasco. They said as much at the time.

Ian Millward, Leigh's manager and former coach of Wigan and Saints wrote an article in the latest edition of League Weekly, talking about NRL players unrealistic financial demands following Israel Folau's defection to Aussie Rules. According to him SBW had contacted a number of clubs looking for a contract, no takers, maybe the way he shagged over the Doggies contributed to his failure to secure one, but according to Millward his terms were ridiculous, particularly in the current climate in NRL post Storm-gate.....

redroar1942

toomevara wrote: »

Ian Millward, Leigh's manager and former coach of Wigan and Saints wrote an article in the latest edition of League Weekly, talking about NRL players unrealistic financial demands following Israel Folau's defection to Aussie Rules. According to him SBW had contacted a number of clubs looking for a contract, no takers, maybe the way he shagged over the Doggies contributed to his failure to secure one, but according to Millward his terms were ridiculous, particularly in the current climate in NRL post Storm-gate.....

It had to be all about the money there's not a team in the world (both codes) who wouldn't want him. The Bulldogs are a proper shower anyway its no surprise their players are always in the redtops for the wrong reasons.

JustinDee

toomevara wrote: »

Ian Millward, Leigh's manager and former coach of Wigan and Saints wrote an article in the latest edition of League Weekly, talking about NRL players unrealistic financial demands following Israel Folau's defection to Aussie Rules. According to him SBW had contacted a number of clubs looking for a contract, no takers, maybe the way he shagged over the Doggies contributed to his failure to secure one, but according to Millward his terms were ridiculous, particularly in the current climate in NRL post Storm-gate.....

Yes but its Ian Millward so . . .

AdeT

toomevara wrote: »

This is odd. He wanted to return to RL and his agent made representations to a number of NRL clubs but his pay demands were so outlandish it wasn't an option. NZRU is, contrary to what's being put forward in the press, very much his second choice.

Classic agent behaviour though; he will have had initial conversations with NRL clubs and then gone to the ABs to tell them that the top RL clubs in the toughest club comp in the world want him back... "you'd be crazy not to go out of your way to bring him to NZ"

I do believe he wanted to get back to RL though; unfortunately for RL (fortunately for RU and AFL) the contract demands are ridiculous. Luckily, they keep churning out unbelievable talents.

JustinDee

AdeT wrote: »

I do believe he wanted to get back to RL though

I think thats just rumour mill however.

AdeT wrote: »

unfortunately for RL (fortunately for RU and AFL) the contract demands are ridiculous. Luckily, they keep churning out unbelievable talents.

So why the likes of Sam Burgess playing in the NRL then? Aussie teams never need anyone else before. He's not that good and he doesn't qualify for Origin.
My opinion, of course.

handsomecake

i just read sonny bill is 109kg.he is 5kg heavier then nonu!!!!!!!!:eek:

redroar1942

handsomecake wrote: »

i just read sonny bill is 109kg.he is 5kg heavier then nonu!!!!!!!!:eek:

Everyone presumes Nonu is huge because he's so powerful but he's no bigger then BOD. The crazy dreads add to the illusion

redroar1942

AdeT wrote: »

Classic agent behaviour though; he will have had initial conversations with NRL clubs and then gone to the ABs to tell them that the top RL clubs in the toughest club comp in the world want him back... "you'd be crazy not to go out of your way to bring him to NZ"

I do believe he wanted to get back to RL though; unfortunately for RL (fortunately for RU and AFL) the contract demands are ridiculous. Luckily, they keep churning out unbelievable talents.

Why would his agent need to do that when the $6mill from Toulon was genuinely on the table.

Stev_o

handsomecake wrote: »

i just read sonny bill is 109kg.he is 5kg heavier then nonu!!!!!!!!:eek:

He's not a wide man either compared to Nonu, just a freakish athletic talent.

Arrogance

redroar1942 wrote: »

Everyone presumes Nonu is huge because he's so powerful but he's no bigger then BOD. The crazy dreads add to the illusion

O'Driscoll is 93kg and Nonu is 102kg. Theres more than a stone difference between them which is huge at this level.

thomond2006

SBW to join Canterbury for the NPC/Super 14.

Carter at 10 and SBW at 12, wow. :eek:

http://www.rugby365.com/news/2498050.htm

Stev_o

Can't wait to see him play for Canters and Crusaders but he probably has the most pressure on his shoulders then any other player out there hopefully he can see through it.