reducing cell count

whelan1

any tips

snowman707

how high is your tank sample?

whelan1

now this is the point milk recording is 330 and creamery was 500 for the same day and bear in mind i milk recorded the very high scc cows in that but their milk was not going in the tank:mad:

John_F

whelan1 wrote: »

now this is the point milk recording is 330 and creamery was 500 for the same day and bear in mind i milk recorded the very high scc cows in that but their milk was not going in the tank:mad:

jeez that is dodge alright...

snowman707

as mentioned in another thread,

stray electricity,

faulty electric fencer ( maybe try pulling out the fencer plug while milking)

pre and post teat dipping

dipping the clusters after each cow.

edit...... ONE OR OTHER of the last two should suffice, if you are already doing so, not much more you can do

whelan1

yup thats the annoying part doing all these things but a big difference betwwen pg and creamery:mad:

bbam

From what I've seen in the past and said before...

Stray voltage, is the parlour and tank properly bonded.

The fencer should be nowhere near the parlour, the earth should also be well away..

Collecting yard, I've been told that if there is alot of agro in the yard or if its too small it will stress cows and put up the count.

The machine Vacuum levels & pulsation...
If it continues to be bad consider having a technician knock back the vacuum a little (2 Kpa)
Pulsation ratios also play a part, moving back towards 60:40 can help if it's a cronic problem although it slows the milking marginally.
On that I've always favoured 2*2 rather than 4*0..
Have the milk liners been replaced as required..

Electric milk pumps can be overlooked as a source of stray voltage

Stress can be a factor, anything that adds to stress could be increasing your count..

cowbox

Whelan I have the same problem too I have all the cows milk recording and even went and got the cows all indivually tested by the creamery...the few that were high I left out of the tank and it still seems to be maybe high one day and low the next but high enough a lot of the time!!!Its crazy because the rest of the cows are low and I got the machine tested,electric fence checked,made sure that there is no loose wires hanging anywhere teats dips everything!!Its doing my head in too.. my conclusion is that the creamery make up these figures!!I even got an injection that seemly is even suppose to lower the cell count that i gave I think twice to the cows when drying off absolutely no impact either waste of money!!Mind me asking where do you supply your milk to??

Pacoa

What do ya milk record with, meters or jars?
It could be that the meters are lowering the cell count somehow.
Getting a split sample and having both the creamery and the milk recorders test the same sample might be a good idea.

snowman707

bbam wrote: »

Collecting yard, I've been told that if there is alot of agro in the yard or if its too small it will stress cows and put up the count.

The machine Vacuum levels & pulsation...
If it continues to be bad consider having a technician knock back the vacuum a little (2 Kpa)
Pulsation ratios also play a part, moving back towards 60:40 can help if it's a cronic problem although it slows the milking marginally.
On that I've always favoured 2*2 rather than 4*0..
Have the milk liners been replaced as required..

Electric milk pumps can be overlooked as a source of stray voltage

Stress can be a factor, anything that adds to stress could be increasing your count..

we often tend to forget about the machine as we do about correct technique, when my kids were young, cell counts rose when they took over in the summer holidays, had a serious discussion one day they were showed the correct procedure and warning if the cell count rose their wages would be cut back, for some reason haven't had a cell count problem since


re the electric fence, a neighbour's fence could be causing problems , could change with wet or dry weather, that is why it is vital to have EVERYTHING bonded and grounded by an experienced person.

bbam

snowman707 wrote: »

we often tend to forget about the machine as we do about correct technique, when my kids were young, cell counts rose when they took over in the summer holidays, had a serious discussion one day they were showed the correct procedure and warning if the cell count rose their wages would be cut back, for some reason haven't had a cell count problem since


re the electric fence, a neighbour's fence could be causing problems , could change with wet or dry weather, that is why it is vital to have EVERYTHING bonded and grounded by an experienced person.

I once struggled with one guy and every portion of the machine was gone over again and again...
Then I noticed he had drop wires in the group of the cubicle shed connected to a mains fencer... it was to stop cows lying in the damn group!:rolleyes:

I would agree with your comments on machine usage... simple things like milking through recording jars that are not set up to do so can cause problems and teat damage in the long run.

whelan1

whelan1 wrote: »

yup thats the annoying part doing all these things but a big difference betwwen pg and creamery:mad:

Have you taken that up with them?
Most people I know milk recording, put a tank sample in as an extra cow.
If that is different and well below 400,000...then I'd be kicking up a major fuss

Incidently cell count your cows via your creamery and include the tank as a cow and compare those results to your p.g recording results aswell.

whelan1

ye i am getting fed up at this stage and i am sending individual samples also , they also lost 3 of these samples:mad: so i was delayed in getting the results as i had to send them in again

browned

now this is the point milk recording is 330 and creamery was 500 for the same day and bear in mind i milk recorded the very high scc cows in that but their milk was not going in the tank

unless ur on one day collections i doubt there is any conspiracies. an average cell count of 330 would suggest that there could be a large amount of cows infected. unless ur milking high cell count cows last r dipping clusters after they're bein milked (in perecetic acid) then ur passing infection on to the rest of the herd.

the way high scc works in cronicly infected cows is that there are clots in the infected quarters which tend to burst every 3 weeks r so. when they burst they release infection which the quarter fights wit white blood cells. they heal up and the cows cell count drops back to normal, and this can give the idea that certain treatment works.

used to have a cell count problem a couple of years back with the herd average around 400, these days its down around 100. the only way to cure it is by biting the bullet and culling cronic cows. milk recording should identify these cows for ya

whelan1

i culled 12 high cell count cows last year and bought in 10 heifers but thats another story:rolleyes: i am back to square 1

Bitten & Hisses

Without split sampling, you're going nowhere. At this stage, all you can say is you have two different laboratories giving you two different sets of results. Until you can compare results from a series of split samples, you cannot say who is more accurate.

browned

in my first two years after taking over the farm i had to cull close to 40 out of 60 cows due to scc/age. they were replaced by my own and bought in heifers, since then i've rearly had a problem with scc, any quarter that has over 3 cases of mastitis is no longer milked and any cow which is clasified as cronic is culled each year to stop cross contamination.

i was at a workshop about scc at the start of the year and there was some useful info given by the speaker he's don crowley. he said that 1st calvers should be below 80 prior to drying off with 2nd calvers below 120 while 3rd calver should be below 160. if animal in these groups are about these figures then she's in trouble. one piont he made which i thought to be very interesting was to dip all the clusters in perecetic acid(spelling) after milking a cow till the first milking of the year. i think the reasoning behind it was that it would reduce the risk of cross contamination and if a cow had a high cell count in her first recording it meant that the dry cow therephy didn't work on the cow.

cowbox

I am going to test the problem cows again on monday all going to plan and do a few experiments while doing it and see what the results are.I am after hearing a few bits from other lads over the last few days which were interesting.One lad was elling me that he had an awful problem with cell count and discovered that the dry cow therapy not naming it(but it is suppose to be the bomb!!) which I use was the problem.He changed brands this year and eureka cell count problem more or less solved..What really annoys me that my herd of cows are all realitively young namely all 2nd and 3rd calvers..surely there is a remedy out there anyone?

snowman707

browned wrote: »

would reduce the risk of cross contamination and if a cow had a high cell count in her first recording it meant that the dry cow therephy didn't work on the cow.

very important a cow gets at least 8 weeks dry period and housing is clean and comfortable,

our tank samples are between 30 and 70 K and we are milking a good number of cows over 10 years old,

we never force cows to milk and ensure their mineral requirements are catered for.

I have said this before, profit from dairying is not all about putting gallons in the tank, if you are constantly culling cows because of cell count you would be better off suckling.

browned

very important a cow gets at least 8 weeks dry period and housing is clean and comfortable,

true, we use the teat sealers on our girls and find them very good. its an extra cost admittidly but u know that the teats have little change of getting infection over the winter, so i think its well worth it

our tank samples are between 30 and 70 K and we are milking a good number of cows over 10 years old,

there axcellent scc and i thought i was doin well hovering around the 100 mark

blue5000

Hi Whelan 1I had a look through this and the only things I can add are1. if cows are deficient in selenieum it ties in with Vit E, which is used to fight infection, try a selenium injection. Its a really stiff injection, soak the syringes in warm, not hot water for a few minutes before giving them.2. Get your electrician to test the parlour for stray electricity. Are there neighbours houses near you? It could be something as simple as a faulty earth on one of their houses.

babybrian

Just on a bit of a side note what impact does high SCC have on milk processing?
My aunt asked me this as she does not see know and she works as a senior lab technician is one of the larger creameries in Ireland (prefer not to name names).
She sometimes wonders what goes on and if this is to keep jobs for the top boys and to keep prices down for farmers.
We have a consistently high cell count cow 2500 last time and now she will have to be culled and is an excellent producer 7500ltrs+ so its now bugging me to know does she really have to go!!!
Our tank average is usually in around the 70-80 mark(and no my aunt doesnt do our samples).

bbam

If my memory serves me doesn't have an adverse effect on cheese making.. I think it causes unwanted bubling in the cheese...
I could have this mixed up of course

theroad

babybrian wrote: »

Just on a bit of a side note what impact does high SCC have on milk processing?

As far as I understand it, high SCC milk has a different mix of proteins than normal milk, and some of those scc proteins degrade casein, which is the main protein in cheese. So high scc milk doesn't yield as much cheese, and the cheese doesn't ripen properly. Also, somatic cells are what's found in pus; I'm not all that keen on drinking high levels of pus in my milk.

We've been through the high SCC nightmare in the last twelve months. Last May, the vet did a whole herd health survey. He sampled the high scc cows to identify the bacteria (it turned out to be Staph aureus), he watched the cows being milked and commented on our practices. He also recommended which cows to cull and which to treat. As a result, around 20 cows went, we started using milking gloves, stopped washing the cows and are pre-dipping them instead. The count has gone from an average last May of around 500 to below 100 this year. Now it's a case of keeping a watch to make sure it doesn't slip back.

I reckon the €300 for the vet was the best value part of the whole thing. It really is a nightmare, I think mostly because there are so many factors at work. But the only thing to do is to tackle the problem one step at a time. Hang in there whelan1, and I'd recommend getting the vet or someone else who knows mastitis to look at your whole setup and start eliminating the factors one by one.

whelan1

started pre dipping them this morning hope it works as it takes a bit of time to dip them and then rub them any tips on speeding it up

aristo

whelan1 wrote: »

started pre dipping them this morning hope it works as it takes a bit of time to dip them and then rub them any tips on speeding it up

Used to use a small knapsack sprayer with an elbow on it before the nozzle, was a good bit quicker

agcons

Apart from the local vet is there anyone else the farmer can turn to for advice? Do any of the creameries have technical
people on the road who can visit the a farmer and do an audit of his milking setup?