Question!

Vomit

If God is really there, why does he allow evil? Doesn't he want only good to exist?

PDN

Been done here many times before.

Basicaly it's all down to free will. God wants you to have free will,therefore he won't force you to always choose the good.

I'll be out of the country for the next week, so mercifully I'll miss everbody rehearsing the usual tired old arguments on this one for the umpteenth time.

Fanny Cradock

Your two questions branch out into two distinct areas of theology: theodicy (the problem of evil) and eschatology (the study of the last days or the future hope). Both areas have a staggeringly huge corpus of work, and it is fair to say that a quick summation of either wont scratch the surface of the output that has been produced over the years.

However, you might find some of the following resources interesting. Please note that these are by no means the best attempts to answer your questions. They just happen to be the ones that spring to mind.

In this article David Bentley Hart gives a decent (yet flawed) effort at answering the problem of natural evil (tsunamis, mudslides, volcanoes etc.) while also pointing to the Christian hope for a the renewal of creation which in part entails the eventual overthrow of all evil.

If memory serves, Os Guinness talks about the existence of evil and suffering and how this can be reconciled with the notion of a Christian God.

I've not listened to it, but there was a debate between Christians and non-believers on the Unbelievable? radio show entitled Where was God in the Tsunami?

On a slightly oblique note (no pun intended), Jeremy Begebie gives a fascinating talk here. Begbie attempts to show how “endings” (or the audiences' understanding of them) have changed in our Western tonal musical tradition. This, he argues, reflects the change in the meta-narratives (or lack of) in the lives of the modernist and post modernist listeners. In other words, as the overarching beliefs of the listener has changed so, too, has the music. He then contrasts this to the meta-narrative of Christianity, which, he argues, is above all else concerned with hope. Hope for new creation that is free of evil. In other words, he is dealing with Christian eschatology in a rather unusual, yet thoroughly engaging, manner.

There is loads more stuff at Veritas and Bethinking.org to name but two sites.

As you can see, there is no shortage of attempts to answer the problem of evil. Indeed, at a foundational level books like the wonderful Ecclesiastes and Job readily acknowledge the existence of evil but curiously nowhere in the bible is there any attempt to explain evil. So while we can see its effects and indulge ourselves in theological speculation, ultimately, it is something that may well remain a mystery until we are told.

Vomit

oh ok

Fanny Cradock

I get the feeling I shouldn't have bothered. Oh well.

Turtwig

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I get the feeling I shouldn't have bothered. Oh well.

For the OP maybe not, but for others reading this (e.g me) you made this thread worthwhile. The hard thing about debating someone who doesn't want to read the counter argument is that if you don't provide it, then others may assume there isn't one. This is the mistake many scientists have made regarding climate, creationism, etc. So fanny pat yourself on the back all you can do is provide the info. If he ignores it (which is nearly always the case) try to remind yourselves that those on the fence or those with an level of interest, no matter how small, may not.

antiskeptic

Malty_T wrote: »

So fanny pat yourself on the back all you can do is provide the info.

I had one of those brain twists on reading this and thought you said to "pat yourself on the fanny.."

Fanny Cradock

antiskeptic wrote: »

I had one of those brain twists on reading this and thought you said to "pat yourself on the fanny.."

Oh dear :S

Soul Winner

Vomit wrote: »

If God is really there, why does he allow evil? Doesn't he want only good to exist?

Assume that God doesn't exist for a second, would the things we call evil now still be called evil? If so then how do we define evil in a Godless universe? If we can define evil as say: 'The way things are not supposed to be.' Then that presupposes that there is a way that things are supposed to be. But if there is no creator/planner of the universe then how can there be a way that things are supposed to be? So, far from the presence of evil disproving the existence of God it actually proves it up in a sense. But why God allows evil is a completely different question and that can have a myriad number of answers, one of which is alluded to in one of the Parables of Jesus below:

"Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." Matthew 13:24 -30

To me this parable teaches that God knows that if He decides to rid the world completely of all evil that He will end up destroying some of us in the process. Can any of us readily claim that we are totally free form all evil? That should God decide today to get rid of all of it out of the world and into the fire that we could be sure that would not go in there too? I have to say that I for one would not be too confident that I am completely free from all evil influence and I thank God that He does tarry giving us time to get right with Him in a new relationship of faith/trust made possible by the sacrifice of His Son Jesus.

The basic Christian message is that God has postponed His wrath in order to give everyone a chance to turn to Him in a new relationship based on the establishment of this new covenant of grace and peace for simple acts of faith and trust. But this message also presupposes the existence evil, a state of being from which we need to be delivered. i.e. "Deliver us from evil." So again the presence of evil is not incompatible with the existence of God, rather we could not even define anything as being evil without the existence of God.