Ben's Relationship with Jacob/MIB/Richard

mickeycireland

Ok,
I loved the finale, thought it wrapped the series up beautifully. I'd like to open this thread not to discuss the finale but to have a discussion on Ben and his relationship with MIB, Richard and Jacob.

So as far as I can remember Ben is a child not happy with his dad or the Dharma folk. His mum's ghost entices him into the forest where he meets Richard who tells him it's not his time yet. They hatch a plan to purge the dharma folk and do so. Sayid shoots Ben, he get's dipped in the temple pond and survives.

He then becomes the head of the others. The others (and Richard) believe he can speak to Jacob, but he cannot. The others do his bidding for this reason including Richard heading off island to recruit folk.

MIB spots the loophole and convinces Ben that Jacob has been taking him for a ride and that Jacob never appearing to Ben has been a snub worth killing him over, so Ben kills him.

I know i've got loads of the above wrong but i'd like someone to plug the holes for me. Essentially I'd like to hear your views on Ben's line "I thought I was summoning the monster but he was summoning me" and also on how the whole Jacob's cabin thing fits in.

My brain is overloaded on how all this works, please help.

Zombrex

• Ben's mother is actually the MiB
  
• Richard believing Ben sees people who aren't there thinks he speaks to Jacob (this doesn't actually make sense, one of the gripes I have with the ending, but anyway) and says he can join the Others but must wait
  
• Ben is shot by Sayid and is taken to the Temple which changes him.
  
• Ben lives a double life with the Others
  
• Ben under the orders of Widmore attacks the French research group and finds Alex.
  
• Ben participates in the Purge, possibly under Widmore's orders, because Damara break the truce with the building of the Hatch
  
• Ben forces Widmore to leave because he "broke the rules" replacing him as the leader of the Others.
  
• Ben tasks the Others with various scientific research projects including figuring out how to have babies on the Island. Richard sees these as distractions
  
• Ben tasks the Others with extracting from the Oceanic crash people who are on Jacob's list (possible discovered in Jacobs cave, possibly given by Jacob, who knows I'm not sure the writers themselves know)
  
• Widmore sends a merc team to extract Ben from the island, in the process killing Alex.
  
• Ben movies the Island and jumps in time. He finds Locke has also left the island
  
• Ben, jealous of Locke apparent choosing by Jacob, kills him after Locke had spoken to Eloise (one assumes because Ben thinks Locke now knows how to head back to the Island, something Ben doesn't want)
  
• Ben returns to the Island on the second plane and finds Locke "alive" (really the MiB)
  
• The MiB plays with Ben and the anger over the death of his daughter and the fact that Jacob never appeared to him to get Ben to murder Jacob
  
• After he realizes who Locke really is he is remorseful.

To be honest I found the ending of Lost and the lack of explanations rather annoying, there is a lot of the above that doesn't make much sense (particularly how the Others react to the Oceanic crash in the early series). It is possible that throughout this the MiB is pretending to be Jacob to Ben, but that would contradict the idea that Ben believes has never seen Jacob.

I think if you go looking for coherent answers you might be disappointed.

mickeycireland

Thanks Wicknight, there's a lot of food for thought.
Had forgotten how the Widmore thing fed into it also.
Will need to take a little while to think about all this again.

Kiith

Wicknight wrote: »

• Ben's mother is actually the MiB

Before i remembered this scene, i was like "huh? How is MIB Ben's mother? "

jimbling

Kiith wrote: »

Before i remembered this scene, i was like "huh? How is MIB Ben's mother? "

lol, I was the exact same...... thought Wicknight had lost his mind.

Zombrex

lol ... well children the MiB and Ben's father were deeply in love and when two people are in love children they do a special hug and that makes a baby :P:pac:

I did of course mean the apparition of Ben's mother was the MiB.



That is the theory at least. It is some what contradicted by Ben first seeing her inside the barracks (ie inside the sonar fence), and also that she died off the island. But at this stage I find it very difficult to tell what were just mistakes on the part of the writers and what is the story.

jimbling

Ya, that looks like it might be a mistake by the writers all right. I cant really think of any other reasoning for it.

The writers probably just figured it was a small mistake and hoped the viewers would not notice.

mickeycireland

Right so if we assume that the writers did not in fact make a mistake here, where does that leave us.

S03E20 Ben's Mum was not MIB because she appeared inside the sonar fence first time round
(unless the fence was knocked out by the attack earlier in the day). This would mean she was merely a ghost or vision leading Ben to his destiny.
Ben then see's his mother on the other side of the sonar fence, she tells him not to come to her as the fence is on. Ben returns with the code and a rabbit, tests the fence is off and wanders into the Jungle. He meets Richard tells him he's looking for his mum who he can see even though she's dead. Richard says he may be able to join the Others if he's patient.

S05E10 - Ben helps Sayid escape and gets shot for his troubles.
S05E11 - Kate and Sawyer take Ben to Richard to get dipped in the pool. Richard says Ellie and Charles won't be happy but does so anyways.
S05E12 - Charles Widmore meets a recovering Ben and tells him he must return to Dharmaville but can be an Other some day.

S03E20. We meet Ben in 1992 with a Dharma suit on, it's his birthday. He rolls out with his Dad in the Dharma van. He gases his dad, returns to Dharmaville where everyone has been gassed and Richard et al wait for him. He's now an Other.

At this point we assume Ben joins the others under Charles and Eloise leadership. Lives with them until Charles is expelled from the Island and Ben becomes leader, presumably because they believe he can see Jacob.

Flash to 2007 - Locke enters the camp carrying his dead father demanding answers from Ben. Ben reluctantly takes him to the cabin and asks him does he see Jacob there in the chair. Locke feels he's being conned then things go crazy, someone appears in the chair and shouts Help me. Ben takes John to the pit, shoots him and asks him what Jacob told him. John says "Help Me!".

Had to just get that all straightened in my head. Not sure why MIB would want to appear as Ben's mother, what benefit would purging the dharma folk have for him?
Loads more questions too!