Sc2 beta, some advice please

Dustaz

So i managed to get a key about a week and a half before it closes down for a month. Im so annoyed

Anyway, after a lifetime of hiding from rts games (im really really REALLY bad at them) i decided i'd give it a go and im absolutely loving it.

Only problem is the learning curve is so steep and im finding it hard to improve. Ive been lucky enough to have a few guildies from wow shout the basics of macro at me over and over while watching me play and ive researched a couple of build orders for terran and tried to stick to them.

the questions i have are basically, give me some good advice for new players and where can i go to get this type of advice!

Thanks in advance


ps i reckon id still beat jazzy :P

Funky

Ooh la la, Lee braving a real man's game! The best places for tips/advice would be:

GosuCoaching - don't go here much but afaik they make like noob videos on the basics and guides on the different matchups

TeamLiquid - the SC2 strategy section's pretty good but they aren't too noob friendly really. can pick up alot of good info lurking there though

and finally but probably the best source of help are the Day9 dailies - he commentates on SC2 games (not exclusively, think he still does some SC1) and pretty much explains why and what the players are doing throughout the game.

Other than that just play play play.

Gummy Panda

I'd watch some shoutcasting of matches. The likes of day[9] will explain matches in great detail to help copper/bronze players.

I also like TotalBiscuit's "I suck at Starcraft 2". He has started shoutcasting starcraft matches for TeamLiquid EU and isn't a good starcraft player. But his videos show tips and pitfalls in learning starcraft 2 that the likes of day[9] might assume you know e.g. terran blocking ramp.

Totalbiscuit - http://www.youtube.com/user/TotalHalibut

day[9] - http://www.youtube.com/user/day9tv

Both use youtube but have ustream channels. Also i day9 has his vids uploaded better on his bliptv site. You find a link in one of this vids.

String

Day9's videos are great. Im new to starcraft aswell and watching his casts helped me alot when first starting and improving.

I would also recommend to watch HDstarcraft and HuskyStarcraft videos on youtube. They are both shoutcasters.

Gonzovision

Any spare keys?

Nody

gonzovision wrote: »

Any spare keys?

Beta went down yesterday for set up for final launch.

String

Nody wrote: »

Beta went down yesterday for set up for final launch.

Its been extended to 7th June.

Gonzovision

Anyone have a key to spare?

Jazzy

Dustaz wrote: »

ps i reckon id still beat jazzy

INCORRECT

RoyalMarine

anyone up for a few games let me know.
dont mind playing fun maps etc either.

zoom!

Watch the streams and VODs as they explain a lot of the game mecahincs to you. Usually what I do is play a game. If I lose I see where I go wrong and write all my faults down. I then go through them one by one, for example if I wasn't building enough probes or I didn't expand on time I'd solely concentrate on those two aspects of my game for the next 10-12 matches until I got it down. Getting better at a game like SC2 is tough because staregy is quite indepth but keep playing and hopefully it'll pay off.

Also you have to learn to thinkn for yourself. I remember playing COH I used to watch replays of the top players and just mimic what they did but it didn't help. I didn't fully understand why they did these things or how to execute them properly. You have to look at the game in your own way and think up your own strategies.

Tenger

Spent the best part of 3 days last week watching various matches online and reading the TeamLiquid build strats. It seems an awful lot to remember after not playing SC for quite a while. Have re-installed SC and playing against 2 AI on 4-6 players maps to try get back into it. 3 games on Classic Bnet ended up in 3 ignominous defeats by rushes.

Personally I have always had trouble memorising maps. Perhaps a print out of the various maps would help me,especially in regards to blocking chokepoints. I goggled map downloads but didn't get any actual images of the maps,mostly fan made maps. Anyone better at finding these than me?

Reading about the league ranking system that will exist on Battlenet: It seems a bit steep that you only get 5 games in the Practise League. Did I read this wrong? Or do you get unlimited casual but only 5 Placement matches?

Quite frankly I fear for my ability to out rush some of the players online. Hopefully many people will sign up not having a clue so I can try beat them!!

zoom!

Don't worry how good you are. You will naturally get quicker and better over time.

Funky

Tenger wrote: »

Spent the best part of 3 days last week watching various matches online and reading the TeamLiquid build strats. It seems an awful lot to remember after not playing SC for quite a while. Have re-installed SC and playing against 2 AI on 4-6 players maps to try get back into it. 3 games on Classic Bnet ended up in 3 ignominous defeats by rushes.

Personally I have always had trouble memorising maps. Perhaps a print out of the various maps would help me,especially in regards to blocking chokepoints. I goggled map downloads but didn't get any actual images of the maps,mostly fan made maps. Anyone better at finding these than me?

Reading about the league ranking system that will exist on Battlenet: It seems a bit steep that you only get 5 games in the Practise League. Did I read this wrong? Or do you get unlimited casual but only 5 Placement matches?

Quite frankly I fear for my ability to out rush some of the players online. Hopefully many people will sign up not having a clue so I can try beat them!!

Honestly I wouldn't worry about learning how to block chokes etc from SC1, it's a really weird system trying to get 'tight' blocks and you pretty much need to learn off the placement for each spawning point on each map. In SC2 it's alot more straightforward, just building stuff next to each other will do the job.

I think the Liquipedia on TL's site has good pictures of map layouts etc. Could try there.

Really the best way to get better is to play play play. There's only so much you can learn about the game outside of playing it. Not being afraid to lose is the most important part of getting better. Check out replays of you losing and try figure out why you lost and see how you could have changed your build/base layout/army decisions etc. so that you would have still been in the game. The more you'll play the more you'll also catch on to things that might not be so obvious from just looking at the map, like certain units might be better on one map than another, is there a weakness some races can exploit in parts of the map, can you safely fast expand.

neil_

The thing that will improve you BY FAR the most as a new player in sc2 (or sc1) is just mechanics and macro. If you have constant worker production up to saturation, a reasonable grasp of when to expand, and don't ever let your production buildings sit idle (or have stuff queued up) you'll be able to beat most players up to plat/diamond if they don't "cheese" you, regardless of what units you're building. Most new/bad players would do better to just attack move their armies across the map every so often and focus 100% on macro.

RealistSpy

Best way to learn this game is to watch replays

Dcully

Ok ive never played SC1 or SC2 beta and im just wondering what makes SC2 so special to those that played the beta?
Ive watched 15-20 full replays and in all honesty it seems just like any other rts out there to me.
Granted ive never played it but from what ive watched i struggle to see what the fuss is about.
Im not saying its great or crap or anything as ive no right to comment without playing.
I am genuinely wondering what makes the game so special and why its anticipated so much by so many?
Ive played quite a few TRS games all of which are on the shelf behind me, they just never seem to keep my attention for too long.
Granted i am terrible at them, and only recall ever winning some world in conflict matches but they were probably mostly down to my team mates in all honesty.
Any C&C,dawn of war, warcraft3,company of heroes,total war matches ive played im pretty sure ive lost so im far from an expert

Gummy Panda

SC brood wars was very well balanced and had a huge amount of depth in stratigies, especially at pro level. The game is a true e-sport. It's actually good enough to watch and has a lot of great commentators.

Try watch some day9 on YouTube. He gives great insight into the game.

Nody

The reason are two fold; first of all SC1 was the first (only?) game that had really balanced 3 side races and games with deep strategic options available (i.e. no C&C tank rush only tactics).

SC2 has built on this and offer not only multiple different build options for each race but also require a constant move between strategies from start, mid and end game; all of which have different counters and strengths. SC2 forces you to decide if you want to expand early/late or not at all; all which are game breaking decisions depending on your opponent. Expand to early and you don't have enough forces to protect your base when he comes early, expand to late and he'll out earn you and produce more then you can and beat you.

This is then added to the great variety of options you can go for in the strategy of excution (do you go air/ground, do you go air drop or stealth, do you go T1/T2 or T3 units etc.), multiprong attack and the micro management required (70+ clicks a minute) it is really a unusual, if not close to unique, style of competative RTS.

Dcully

70 clicks a minute, jaysus im getting a headache just reading it.

Dacian

Dcully wrote: »

70 clicks a minute, jaysus im getting a headache just reading it.

The top players are pretty amazing. They may be attacking onscreen but they will haved hotkeyed their production building sso that they can be pumping out more units at their base for their next attack even as they as still pushing at their opponent.

Even at 'lower' levels the games can be pretty exciting. The ProGamers are just that, out of our normal league! Here is a replay of a 2v2 match were the players had only really played SC1 before,with a couple of games of SC2 each. http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6873502

Personally the balance between the 3 races is brillant. Each race has its own strengths and even favours a particular playstyle. My defensive style is better with Terran or Protoss while my aggressive mate is best with Zerg. Looking at C&C and/or Red Alert the differnt armies are not that different from each other.

Gummy Panda

TossGirl does 360 actions per minute and she is the low end of the pro league

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognc_ABKrKw

Jazzy

tossgirl is a novelty player. a lot of those actions are spam

saviour stays in the mid 200apm range most of the game, only going 300+ in massive fights and stuff. just like aim in fps games, its how you use it as to what counts and percentages matter little

Paleface

I watched that video and she just seems to continously selecting scv's and buildings for no good reason. Does that really count as good gameplay?!

zoom!

Paleface wrote: »

I watched that video and she just seems to continously selecting suv's and buildings for no good reason. Does that really count as good gameplay?!

Good players tend to spam (continiously clicking SCV's and buildings) because it allows them to enter a sort of fast paced rythmn which helps them maintain focus throughout the game.

Nody

Paleface wrote: »

I watched that video and she just seems to continously selecting suv's and buildings for no good reason. Does that really count as good gameplay?!

The rule is to never be above 500 gas or minerals and constantly, constantly, build more. Never queue stuff (locks up resources for no reason) and always pump out more buildings to pump out more units.

If you get slaughtered you can recouple a lot faster with 8+ unit buildings pumping then with 3; and you'll need it to counter the counter attack that should follow your failed assault.

Gonzovision

Beta phase 2 has begun