Outwindering Pad / Indoor / Slatted shed

SuckinDiesel

I had planned to build a small slatted shed this year but am now considering a combination of indoor bedded shed with outwindering pad...

I've a suckler herd.

Does anyone have good invormation about the cost savings between each, there is some information here but i'm looking for more:

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/2005/0402/farmmanagement/beef/feature.shtml

kboc

SuckinDiesel wrote: »

I had planned to build a small slatted shed this year but am now considering a combination of indoor bedded shed with outwindering pad...

I've a suckler herd.

Does anyone have good invormation about the cost savings between each, there is some information here but i'm looking for more:

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/2005/0402/farmmanagement/beef/feature.shtml

I am starting out on building some sheds. Out Wintering Pads (OWP) were suggestd to me on this forum. So i have been researching these ever since. I think they are a no brainer. Cheap to install and cattle far healthier and put on more weight. You do need to collect the slurry, a lagoon will do the job, also relatively cheap(or a tank which already exist). Check the following web page, go down to bottom and click on "Full Text". Good reading, some of the terminology is heavy reading but it makes some good sound decisions backed up by data; http://www.bsas.org.uk/Publications/Animal_Science/text/Volume_75_Part_3/447/
Also check out the following; http://www.liningservices.com/dynamicdata/asset/StandOffPadBrochure2009.PDF
and this one; http://livestocknw.co.uk/download/technical_notes/woodchip_pads_for_outwintering_cattle_fact_sheet

I have spoken to people about this and they laugh at me. Typical irish attitude, dismiss it straight away. This system is massive in North America, where it is alot colder.
Good luck, and don't listen to the doubters!!!

irishh_bob

kboc wrote: »

I am starting out on building some sheds. Out Wintering Pads (OWP) were suggestd to me on this forum. So i have been researching these ever since. I think they are a no brainer. Cheap to install and cattle far healthier and put on more weight. You do need to collect the slurry, a lagoon will do the job, also relatively cheap(or a tank which already exist). Check the following web page, go down to bottom and click on "Full Text". Good reading, some of the terminology is heavy reading but it makes some good sound decisions backed up by data; http://www.bsas.org.uk/Publications/Animal_Science/text/Volume_75_Part_3/447/
Also check out the following; http://www.liningservices.com/dynamicdata/asset/StandOffPadBrochure2009.PDF
and this one; http://livestocknw.co.uk/download/technical_notes/woodchip_pads_for_outwintering_cattle_fact_sheet

I have spoken to people about this and they laugh at me. Typical irish attitude, dismiss it straight away. This system is massive in North America, where it is alot colder.
Good luck, and don't listen to the doubters!!!

while america ( where the farms are ) is cold , its not anywhere near as wet or windy as here , cattle dont mind having no shelter when its frosty and still , different story with driving rain , as for the cost of a wintering pad , while the initial costs are modest , thier is a steep anual upkeep

reilig

irishh_bob wrote: »

while america ( where the farms are ) is cold , its not anywhere near as wet or windy as here , cattle dont mind having no shelter when its frosty and still , different story with driving rain , as for the cost of a wintering pad , while the initial costs are modest , thier is a steep anual upkeep

Agree with you totally Bob. Its not frost or snow that causes chills in cattle, its the driving wind and rain. Most of the trials done on wintering pads in ireland were done in the south of the country where the winters are no more than 3 months long, the weather is warmer etc etc. In the North West, these things would definitely not be feseable. In the last 10 years, we have only had 1 winter where the cattle were not inside for at least 6 months of the year. That was 2009/2010. The 2008/09 season saw our cattle housed from Early october to the beginning of may. Our cattle also spent a month on the slats from the end of june to the end of july last summer because of the wet weather. The upkeep of a pad for 8 months last year would have been collosal. A slatted shed is a 30 year job with little or no maintenance. after 30 years you may have to repair the roof or steel. A pad requires maintenance every year.

pakalasa

Saw an article in the IFJ a few years back. It was a well known farmer in Donegal who finished a lot of cattle on different sites. He said his cattle on the 'sand dunes' thrived the best.
Just goes to show, once they have a 'dry lie' and shelter from the driving rain, that's all they need.
The cost that goes into these slatted houses, and cattle still don't thrive aswell as the great outdoors. They end up shaving their backs to keep them cool....mad.

reilig

pakalasa wrote: »

Saw an article in the IFJ a few years back. It was a well known farmer in Donegal who finished a lot of cattle on different sites. He said his cattle on the 'sand dunes' thrived the best.
Just goes to show, once they have a 'dry lie' and shelter from the driving rain, that's all they need.
The cost that goes into these slatted houses, and cattle still don't thrive aswell as the great outdoors. They end up shaving their backs to keep them cool....mad.

Not many people wintering cattle anymore on sand dunes with the pollution control regulations introduced in the last few years.

Tipp Man

What about putting a cheap lean to at a side of the pad facing away from prevailing winds?? Keep it low and don't put any bedding or anything in it??

From what i have heard a lot of people who put in the pads a few years ago are no longer using them, the amount of rain in Ireland is a real issue without shelter

No doubt about it though cattle will do better when not on slats

kboc

reilig wrote: »

Agree with you totally Bob. Its not frost or snow that causes chills in cattle, its the driving wind and rain. Most of the trials done on wintering pads in ireland were done in the south of the country where the winters are no more than 3 months long, the weather is warmer etc etc. In the North West, these things would definitely not be feseable. In the last 10 years, we have only had 1 winter where the cattle were not inside for at least 6 months of the year. That was 2009/2010. The 2008/09 season saw our cattle housed from Early october to the beginning of may. Our cattle also spent a month on the slats from the end of june to the end of july last summer because of the wet weather. The upkeep of a pad for 8 months last year would have been collosal. A slatted shed is a 30 year job with little or no maintenance. after 30 years you may have to repair the roof or steel. A pad requires maintenance every year.

I was speaking to a gentle man from Devon in SW England about these last week. They have approx 1200mm of rain a year, the same as vast parts of Ireland. Not a problem with these, in wind or rain, maybe a bit of shelter might help. This can be as simple as a few round bales of straw around part of perimeter to break some of the prevailing winds. He actually builds them also for other farmers. only problems associated with these are all farmer created he says; stocking density far too high, so pad cant function probably. Ends up too mucky.
As regards running costs, you scrap off top 2 inches maybe every year but if worked properly probably every 2 years. This stuff can be bought for £50/cubic metre. 2 inches deep = 50 mm. Therefore a cubic metre will cover 20 sq metres. 1 cow needs 12 sq metres, so therefore annual running costs of £30 per cow. Don't try and justify slatted sheds on price, madness. Teagasc cost these at 900-1000 euro per cow. I got pads costed approx £30/animal exc digger work.

hammer73

kboc wrote: »

Teagasc cost these at 900-1000 euro per cow. I got pads costed approx £30/animal exc digger work.

I think youll find that the Teagasc figure for the out wintering pads is 250 euro not 30.

kboc

hammer73 wrote: »

I think youll find that the Teagasc figure for the out wintering pads is 250 euro not 30.

I think you'll find i wrote "I got a quote", not teasgasc quoted me! I got a quote from a contractor in the north for this. Fully licensed to sign off etc.

F.D

I think your missing the real issue here whaich is slurry storage, i would not be a fan of the system where theres no shelter from the elements, i agree cattle would be better on some form of bedding other than slats but
a friend of mine trialled his slats on half slat mats and half without, he is going to fit the rest of the shed this year he seen a big difference in the cattle , but back to the storage, many farm over the years have been pulling cattle out of yards to cut down on the volume of slurry, dung etc, look at the cost involved of spreading all that rain water, it is lowering the quality of your slurry so you wont even be getting a good return on what your spreading, Finally the UK is only tightening up on slurry storage now there rules were never as tight as ours so i reckon you'll see big changes on what systems they choose over the coming years

irishh_bob

kboc wrote: »

I was speaking to a gentle man from Devon in SW England about these last week. They have approx 1200mm of rain a year, the same as vast parts of Ireland. Not a problem with these, in wind or rain, maybe a bit of shelter might help. This can be as simple as a few round bales of straw around part of perimeter to break some of the prevailing winds. He actually builds them also for other farmers. only problems associated with these are all farmer created he says; stocking density far too high, so pad cant function probably. Ends up too mucky.
As regards running costs, you scrap off top 2 inches maybe every year but if worked properly probably every 2 years. This stuff can be bought for £50/cubic metre. 2 inches deep = 50 mm. Therefore a cubic metre will cover 20 sq metres. 1 cow needs 12 sq metres, so therefore annual running costs of £30 per cow. Don't try and justify slatted sheds on price, madness. Teagasc cost these at 900-1000 euro per cow. I got pads costed approx £30/animal exc digger work.

devon is about 300 miles south of cork , its much milder than anywhere in ireland

irishh_bob

F.D wrote: »

I think your missing the real issue here whaich is slurry storage, i would not be a fan of the system where theres no shelter from the elements, i agree cattle would be better on some form of bedding other than slats but
a friend of mine trialled his slats on half slat mats and half without, he is going to fit the rest of the shed this year he seen a big difference in the cattle , but back to the storage, many farm over the years have been pulling cattle out of yards to cut down on the volume of slurry, dung etc, look at the cost involved of spreading all that rain water, it is lowering the quality of your slurry so you wont even be getting a good return on what your spreading, Finally the UK is only tightening up on slurry storage now there rules were never as tight as ours so i reckon you'll see big changes on what systems they choose over the coming years

excellent post , slatted mats are a revelation in terms of cattle comfort and performance , also agree with you on the volume of water created by wintering pads , i know a farmer who after his first winter ( winter gone by ) using a pad , ended up having to pay the contractor 1500 euro to empty the lagoon and that was after one of the driest winters on record :eek:

Pacoa

Yeah a guy near me is said to have apent 1200 euro emptying his earth bank tank next to the pad this spring cause of all the rain last november. The other thing about pads is the cost of the chips jumps when oil prices go up don't they so that could take a lot of the advantage away from them cost wise.

bogman_bass

we looked into putting in a lined lagoon but were told not to bother that meath co. council would never give planning for it

fordfocus1

what would the cost be to empty a 3 bay slatted tank and spread in fields close to the shed? would it be a lot less than this?