New maps for Wicklow from EastWest Mapping

oldscoil

Just received this email...:)


Two new maps - Wicklow Mountains West and Lugnaquilla & Glendalough are now both available from our website at http://www.eastwestmapping.ie/
The new maps are in the same general style as our Dublin & North Wicklow Mountains Map published in 2009 and printed at 1:30,000 scale on 120 gsm Pretex paper which is water and tear resistant. Retail price is same at €9.95 per sheet. We have a value deal for people who wish to purchase a set of the three maps at €29.00. I also expect they'll be available in Eason's, National Map Centre, Great Outdoors and shops in Wicklow in due course.
Fieldwork on foot and by bike was undertaken in 2009 (great autumn!!) and 2010 interrupted somewhat by snow & ice etc. I think we've done a pretty good job at capturing the forest, road, track and path detail as well other physical features. Contouring is still at 20 metres - not ideal, adequate in Wicklow for general hillwalking and biking. Hopefully we can improve with more contour detail in the future. As with any map, doubtless we have missed some features and/or new forest tracks have been constructed etc. As always, I appreciate any feedback on detail that appears to be missing or incorrect so that we can chase it up on the ground. Where there is a significant issue, I'll publish free .pdf updates on our website.
One aspect that I have invested a lot of time & effort into is a thorough review of the placenames of the hills and the location of 'heritage' features etc. This has been a substantial task in itself and of course, open to improvement. I have written some of my thoughts on this aspect which you can find at http://www.eastwestmapping.ie/placenames In general I have deliberately chosen diversity as far as forms of names are concerned to reflect the richness of this aspect of our heritage. I have also placed an emphasis on the names known and used by the good people who live in the Wicklow hills rather than in some cases, those recorded on OSI material.
I trust you enjoy using these maps as much as we have enjoyed making them and I thank you for your support. I also hope that they'll go a little way towards a more complete record of these hills and valleys so close to many of our hearts.
Finally, I might mention that Wicklow Mountains East sheet will be published early next year. I will be also looking in more detail at releasing digital versions in due course as time allows. Thanks.


Barry Dalby
Eastwest Mapping,
Clonegal,
Enniscorthy,
Co.Wexford.
Ireland.
ph: 00353 (0)53 9377835
fax: 00353 (0)53 9377835

dogmatix

It's been a long wait but the end results will be worth it no doubt. I'm already on my second Dublin mountains map, while my sheet 50 has been gathering dust in my map drawer for a year.

BarryD

Thanks to anyone who pointed out that the link to the placenames page was incomplete. Here it is.

http://www.eastwestmapping.ie/placenames.html

nomdeboardie

(Just ordered, after getting your update email - thanks!)

BlackWizard

I just made an order too

I hope it arrives before the bank holiday weekend!!

Alun

Mine arrived literally 10 minutes ago They look good so far, but as Barry pointed out both in his email and on the website, there are some rather controversial changes to some well-known place names, esp. summits.

Carrigvore and Duff Hill have become Carrigvoher and Duffy Hill, Silsean -> Shileshawn, Table Mtn. -> Black Banks, Kanturk -> Kanturch, Mullaghcleevaun East -> Stony Hill, Clohernagh -> Leohard, Corrigasleggaun -> Lough Mountain, Trooperstown Hill -> Mweeleen etc. but the most bizarre one of all is Carrigshouk that has become Cyowck !!!!! Sounds more Polish than Irish to me

Now, not to appear as if I'm complaining, and I appreciate reading Barry's very complete description of the confusion surrounding placenames and their transposition onto the original OS maps back in the day when most of the errors were made, but I'd have preferred it if the original, well known names had been retained as the primary name in colour, and any new (or should that be old?!) names had been added in italics underneath.

Mullaghteelin

I got the two maps this morning also, great stuff.
After a quick glance at the Wicklow Mountains West map I notice some extra details added to the area that has already been covered in the Dublin Mountains map. Nothing major, but nice to see.
Just hope the dry weather continues for a few more weeks at least.:D

BarryD

Yes, Cyowck does sound Polish, doesn't it!! But Cyowck or Cyouck is recorded by Liam Price several times and matches well the local pronounciation even today, which is something like 'Keoac' or 'Cia-owac', very hard to write down, you'd want to hear it. It is, as many will know from Seabhac - a hawk, Rock of the Hawk(s).

Ditto for most other names - as I write in my notes, I didn't go for different forms or names just for the sake of it but because I came to the conclusion that the familiar ones that we know from OS maps might not be always entirely correct, whatever that means. All explained in my notes on placenames.

Happy reading and walking!!

Barry D.

BarryD

Incidentally while I think of it, does anyone here remember Cyowck or Kyowck Lodge when it was standing. There's a local man nearby interested in promoting the local history of Glanmacanass, who is searching for a photograph of it.

I camped there around 1980 but only recall ruin then. I understand it was badly damaged in 1967 when the IRA were experimenting with explosives. Today, there's just a few remains of walls and foundations.

If anyone knows of an old photo, please let me know and I'll put you in touch.

Barry D.

nomdeboardie

Got mine today too, thanks . The naming and labelling issue is, er, interesting all right; I think I also might have preferred to see the OS names given at least equal prominence for the moment, but I can live with it.

Judge

Mine have arrived too. Very pleased but can't help noticing most of the mountains (including Lug) seem to have gained 5-10m in height - presume a different topographic model than the one used by OSI and Harvey?

The naming will cause some controversy I think - esp. Lough Ferrib?

Am curious as to where you are placing the summit of Tomaneena: it looks like you are situating it over the Turlough Hill reservoir - I have always been under the impression the summit was the 681m high outcrop to the SW. Was there originally a higher summit before the reservoir was built?

BarryD

My understanding is that Tomaneena is the name of the area of the hill where the reservoir was built. I can't ever remember it without the reservoir but I've read that the ESB levelled it off prior to construction. It could be the pt.681. You'll also notice the name in a different form Tomenina, in the valley further north. There is an account of the name referring to this area. 'Tom' is given as a word indicating 'a bushy place' which is more likely to be on lower slopes rather than hill top. Price gives meaning tentatively as 'tuaim an aonaigh' - 'mound of the fair place' - but this is based presumably on nearby Fair Mtn. and it's origins and it all gets rather complicated!

As for Lough Ferrib, that spelling is also used by Price and intended to reflect the way it's said: Fer-rib, not Fir as in a fir tree. If you're going to anglicise names, well I suppose they should at least be phonetically close!

None of these matters are set in stone and very much open to interpretation.

Barry D.

Slogger Jogger

Got my copies today. Very happy with them. You can really get immersed in their detail. Thanks EW Mapping.

BlackWizard

I got mine really quickly actually. only took a day or two.

The packaging is actually made up of a map.. Kinda neat

foolelle

awh wizard. thats like a spoiler

Judge

Wicklow East Map now available

Snazzy new website as well - a big improvement!

Donny5

Judge wrote: »

Wicklow East Map now available

Snazzy new website as well - a big improvement!

EastWest's data really is excellent, but I can't stand their maps. The 30000:1 scale is irritating. It's hard to get romers for the scale and it's more difficult to estimate distances (for me, at least) and get grid references than 50000:1 or 25000:1. The contour lines are awkward, too. They aren't available waterproofed and the "water and tear resistance" is akin to that of toilet paper.

I have read the FAQ they put out and the reason for the scale. I don't like it, though, and I'm back to OS maps which have far less detail and aren't always as up-to-date because I can use them intuitively and they (the waterproof ones) won't fall apart after one use (as my EastWest Dublin & North Wicklow Mountains did).

BarryD

Donny, I'm sorry to hear that you don't like our product but I would like to address some of the issues you raise:
The reasoning behind a scale of 1:30,000 is clearly explained in our FAQ. I could have gone 1:25,000 but that would have necessitated a greater number of sheets and awkward overlaps. Paper comes in certain standard sizes and the width of the main hill area fits conveniently across the B1 sheet at 1:30,000. There are good romers available at 1:30,000 - http://www.maptools.com/products/AdvCorners.html though personally I would just judge distances roughly by reference to the 1Km grid squares. For shorter distances, a bog standard compass with centimetre graduations will suffice as 1cm = 300 metres etc.

As regards the paper quality, it is water & tear resistant if treated properly - again refer to FAQ. This paper is treated to give it greater strength and is manufactured by Neenah Lahnstein in Germany http://p133574.webspaceconfig.de/en/products/pretex/ specifically for this type of application. As you might imagine this has to be imported specifically, comes at a price and such material is several times costlier than the sort of 'cheap' paper that say, OSI maps are printed on.

It is of course possible for some of the third party laminating companies to take our maps and treat them in same fashion as the OSI product. This will add a price premium though. My aim is to make good quality accurate mapping available at a reasonable cost.

Barry Dalby, EastWest Mapping.

Alun

Harvey's also sell suitable romers, as they too publish maps at 1:30k ...

http://www.harveymaps.co.uk/acatalog/Romers_and_magnifiers.html

Donny5

BarryD wrote: »

Donny, I'm sorry to hear that you don't like our product but I would like to address some of the issues you raise:
The reasoning behind a scale of 1:30,000 is clearly explained in our FAQ. I could have gone 1:25,000 but that would have necessitated a greater number of sheets and awkward overlaps. Paper comes in certain standard sizes and the width of the main hill area fits conveniently across the B1 sheet at 1:30,000. There are good romers available at 1:30,000 - http://www.maptools.com/products/AdvCorners.html though personally I would just judge distances roughly by reference to the 1Km grid squares. For shorter distances, a bog standard compass with centimetre graduations will suffice as 1cm = 300 metres etc.

As regards the paper quality, it is water & tear resistant if treated properly - again refer to FAQ. This paper is treated to give it greater strength and is manufactured by Neenah Lahnstein in Germany http://p133574.webspaceconfig.de/en/products/pretex/ specifically for this type of application. As you might imagine this has to be imported specifically, comes at a price and such material is several times costlier than the sort of 'cheap' paper that say, OSI maps are printed on.

It is of course possible for some of the third party laminating companies to take our maps and treat them in same fashion as the OSI product. This will add a price premium though. My aim is to make good quality accurate mapping available at a reasonable cost.

Barry Dalby, EastWest Mapping.

I understand why you use the scale you do, but I don't like it. There's a lot of others I've met who avoid your maps and the Harvey's Walkers maps because of the scale. I know you can get romers in that scale, but any metric ruler and every compass I own is already good to go for 50000:1 or 25000:1. I often want accurate 8 digit grid references and they are a pain to get with the 30000:1 scale. I'd much rather buy more maps covering less ground each with a sensible scale.

I would be happy enough to pay to get your maps laminated (or better yet if you offered them Aqua3'd or similar) in 25000:1. As it is, the Dublin & North Wicklow Mountains fell apart after one use, where it was only taken from the mapcase to flip pages. I know you want to offer maps at a good price, but I'd rather pay more for quality and only pay once.

So I understand why you make the maps as you do, but I won't be buying any more of them. I do appreciate that you talk to the end user, though.

BarryD

Your're welcome Donny - I always appreciate feedback from users and like anything, there are horses for courses, so use what you prefer!

Of course, a digital version is more or less scale independent so that may solve your issue in time but then not everyone likes to be looking at a screen when on the hills.

I might add the following feedback received from another user a couple of weeks ago "I was up Lobawn and Sugarloaf in the Glen of Imaal last Tuesday - the worst day of the week - and got soaked and even managed to wrench my knee in a fall on a slippery rock. Everything was wet through and your map passed the test in two ways - it took the soaking and dried out OK, and the track on Lobawn to Logar was spot on in position"

regards

Barry D.

Road Bandit

Hi Barry
I agree with the point that Donny5 makes about the paper used. I found that the last East West map I purchased burst on the folds very easily. I then got it laminated by the Map Shop in Churchtown near Dundrum.
In my last job we used to print on Poly Art which is really what you should be using for your maps (http://www.polyart.com/en/polyart-synthetic-paper/index.html). We used it for airline luggage tags.
The above said your maps are the business and knock spots off the OSI maps. The detail you guys have captured is fantasitc. I wouldn't see a problem with 1:30K. Best of luck with the latest edition.
RB

Alun

Road Bandit wrote: »

In my last job we used to print on Poly Art which is really what you should be using for your maps (http://www.polyart.com/en/polyart-synthetic-paper/index.html).

I think that's the stuff Harvey's use for some of their maps. I used one of those for the Dale's Way last summer and while it was good, was completely waterproof and didn't tear, I found that the printing just wore away at the folds revealing the white plastic underneath after only a few days. I was a little disappointed to be honest.

Road Bandit

I'd blame the printers (I was one)!

BarryD

Thanks for the feedback - I did look at several 'water proof' papers last year including Polyart (which is even pricier!). However I didn't care for it so much on aesthetic grounds, the Polyart has a very synthetic feel wheras the Pretex has a real paper feel..!!

I'm interested in your experience Alun because I've used Polyart orienteering maps in the past and exactly the same thing happened - the ink flaked off. This is due to the inherent nature of Polyart - it's 'plastic' and doesn't absorb the ink. Special inks have to be used that 'stick' to the material as far as I know - hence the issue.

So, it's swings and roundabouts. That said, I wouldn't rule out using Polyart at some stage, it's relatively indestructible even if it comes at a cost.

Barry D.

dogmatix

The 1:30000 is a bit awkward but it is fairly easy to construct your own roamer using a ruler, piece of paper and either laminate it or stick it in a plastic pouch.

My only gripe with the maps (and it's a small one) is that a very small portion of the map(s) are obscured by an info/acknowledgment box - might have been better putting that on the back. I mean there could be something interesting underneath!

Alun

There's a waterproof paper I use to print off sections of maps with routes, wp's etc. that I use as my primary reference when hillwaking these days (I keep other maps in the rucksack!)

It's available from www.toughprint.com and available in two types, one for inkjet and the other for laser printers. Very tough, tearproof and waterproof. I (or rather my wife!) has regularly forgotten about maps left in the map pocket of my walking trousers and put them through the washing machine, and they're still readable! The ink, esp. black for some reason, does bleed a little from one side to the other but it's nothing major.

It's a lot thicker than the paper used on the E-W maps or the polyethylene stuff Harvey use, so might not be suitable for large printed maps, but maybe the manufacturers could give you some leads?

BTW Barry, I'd really, really, really, really, really like a PC based digital version of your maps, preferably to be used with my mapping s/w of choice at the moment, Mapyx Quo GPS maps for Garmin GPS's would be nice too, although not as important as the PC based option for me at least.

BarryD

Thanks Alun, I don't think that's one we looked at - worth following up. But I'm curious - for personal use, they're recommending use in an inkjet or laser printer. Most inkjet inks I've seen seem to be water soluble - what do you use - does the ink not just dissolve and run?

Alun

BarryD wrote: »

Thanks Alun, I don't think that's one we looked at - worth following up. But I'm curious - for personal use, they're recommending use in an inkjet or laser printer. Most inkjet inks I've seen seem to be water soluble - what do you use - does the ink not just dissolve and run?

I'm using the inkjet version with bog-standard Epson ink cartridges, and I don't know how they do it, but the ink doesn't run when used on that paper, whereas it most certainly does if used on plain paper.

I bought mine in the Great Outdoors in Dublin by the way ... €22.50 for 25 sheets, so not cheap. (That was a year or more ago BTW)

nomdeboardie

Alun wrote: »

I'm using the inkjet version with bog-standard Epson ink cartridges, and I don't know how they do it, but the ink doesn't run when used on that paper, whereas it most certainly does if used on plain paper.

I bought mine in the Great Outdoors in Dublin by the way ... €22.50 for 25 sheets, so not cheap. (That was a year or more ago BTW)

Sounds like a useful product for many applications!

hmmm

I've a couple of EW maps that have been taken out weekly and they have held up well to rough treatment. They've had a few soakings too, I usually keep them in the mesh pocket on the outside of the bag. I have no better maps for fine detail of tracks etc which I would never have explored otherwise.

For maps I can print, I've got a dirt cheap Tesco laminator which is great - well recommended for any hiker.

I'm also using mapyx, it has been much more stable than Geolives - I miss the aerial views though.

Slogger Jogger

Ordered the new map yesterday. Got it in the post today. Great service. Map looks great.

Alun

Mine has just popped through the letterbox ... great stuff! It's even got my house on it (just!)

Judge

Interesting update from EastWest here.

The big news is that digital versions of the Dublin/Wicklow maps are on the way, which is very welcome. Also a walking guide and a new map of the Blackstairs Mountains.

It's great to see decent maps of some of the obscurer places appearing: Barry says he doesn't expect the Blackstairs map to sell as well as the Wicklow maps but I'll be getting a copy, even though Mount Leinster is the only peak I've climbed around there. One of the (many) barriers to walking in Ireland is the lack of good maps showing access routes onto the hills meaning you are often reliant on a combination of what's published in walking guides and local knowledge you pick up from other walkers or just from getting lost every now and then. The Dublin/Wicklow maps have opened up a lot of new routes for me that I was previously unaware of and I hope the Blackstairs map will do the same for an area that is not much further away than Wicklow but largely unexplored by many walkers.

Hope business improves in 2012 and we get see all these goodies and more.

BarryD

Thanks for your support, Judge and kind comment. Re Blackstairs, although I don't live too far from same, I too would admit to not having walked there extensively (just the main ridges) prior to survey fieldwork. I've been surprised by the character of the landscape on the flanks of these hills. Being so linear, there are multiple little lanes and boreens at regular intervals, all heading up to the 'commons'. In places it's like stepping back into a different Ireland and indeed just a couple of weeks ago, I visited an elderly bachelor whom I was surprised to find living without electricity. Just a candle or two and a 'rabbit lantern' for the long dark evenings - think on that in 2012, when we browse the web!

Strasser

Judge wrote: »

Interesting update from EastWest here.

One of the (many) barriers to walking in Ireland is the lack of good maps showing access routes onto the hills meaning you are often reliant on a combination of what's published in walking guides and local knowledge you pick up from other walkers or just from getting lost every now and then.

Try http://www.mountainviews.ie an excellent resource for this kind of information for the whole country.