What are the standards for lecturers in DCU?

mickoneill30

I'm doing an evening course in DCU.

Last semester most students did reasonably well. I got 90% in one module last semester and for the follow on module this semester I'm pretty sure I'm heading for a fail. It's not for the lack of work.
There were two modules this semester. The one above and a second one. For the second module on the course this semester you could nearly do it without opening a book (if you'd any experience whatsoever).

Our lecturer was a bit "out there" with his methods and coming up to the end of the semester a few complaints were made and he gave us some more normal type lectures for our last two lectures. It was too little too late though for me and for a lot of guys. Apparently last year 60% failed this module last year. Nobody I talked to after our exam was confident of passing.

Do the lecturers in DCU get assessed or monitored? To me if you've got a class getting good marks in semester one and then a majority failing in semester two I would say either the subject is pitched too high or the lecturer is not good enough or semester one was pitched too low.

I know people who did the same course a few years ago and this module wasn't on it so when you tell them you've worked your ass off and aren't going to do well they think you're a bit thick based on the work they did and what they got
I'd imagine potential employers might have the same opinion.

It's just a bit frustrating I'm reasonably good at the subject but this semester was demoralising. The lecturer in question does a couple of courses and the complaints about him and the results are similar for the other courses.

Does DCU care? Or are they just interested in taking in money? There were quite a few empty desks around me during the exam for people who dropped out.
From my point of view there are two guys in my area who were interested in doing the course I'm on. Not any more.

It doesn't seem to be just one lecturer either. During semester one, one guy was basically reading from a book and was a bit confused when we were asking questions. Another missed a couple of lectures. I've no problem working hard (well I do, but I do it anyway) but I might as well have skipped a pile of lectures for all the help these guys were to me.

phantom_lord

I'm curious about this as well, we've been asked for anon feedback on a few lecturers we've had but not on the two worst, where it'd actually be the most useful.

One module had at least two hundred students in the class. The room was filled at the start of the year under the first lecturer, but the person who later took over was so poor no one turned up. We then had the earlier lecturer take over again for a couple of classes and attendance went from about 20/30 at most, to full capacity. It was quite telling.

Our class reps complained about the situation, but from what I gather were told that nothing was going to be done about it.

How someone of that calibre could be given that position is just beyond me.

supine

personally, I am quite disappointed with the quality of lecturers in my course, which is unfortunate because I think a lot of other aspects of the university are great.

Having done 3 years here, at about 4/5 modules a semester I can safely say I have had one lecturer who I'd be happy to learn off again, 1 other decent lecturer, several mediocre/poor and some who were quite shockingly awful where their lectures consisted of reading from a book, tutorials which had no reference to coursework covered in lectures, or were full of mistakes.

That 60% of the class the year before failed should be a huge issue. As far as i'm aware, if 20% of a class fail in full-time courses then the lecturer is called up for a review to account for it.

andyman

I have to say, as a first year, that the amount of learning in one particular module in my course is very, very demanding, and the lack of quality and help from some of the lecturers is very disappointing especially in a module so difficult if you haven't done it before at Leaving Cert or whatever. I did it for Leaving Cert, did very well and even I find it extremely difficult.

We've had 4 lecturers this year in this module. 1 of them wasn't the best lecturer but he was very approachable and helpful and his notes are on moodle and are easy to learn from. Another lecturer put his notes on the N-Drive in the DCU system at the end of the semester (good idea, because people went to his lectures and he said he wasn't putting them up) whilst the other two have easily the most demanding part of the course and they were woeful lecturers and they simply refuse to put their notes on moodle to give us a hand (even at this stage). I wouldn't mind, but when I'm trying to take notes down, they just go straight through the slides without giving us a chance...

One of them is my Personal Tutor, and I asked for a meeting with them regarding the situation and they said no in the e-mail because "it's not up for discussion". Complete and utter rudeness!

This module had a 90% failure rate last year (up from 75% the year before). Perhaps, just perhaps this might be an indication about the quality of lecturing/amount of work involved and I'm astonished that nothing's been done about it other than change the CA to an online-based one. What'll happen now is the failure rate will go down because of it and nothing will be made of it. In my personal view, the two lecturers not putting their notes up to help their students who are in obvious and extensive difficulty is the main factor. If they put their notes up and not worry as much about lecture attendences, then the failure rate would go right down.

I was having serious difficulty in another module, and I believe that if the lecturers in this module didn't put their notes up on moodle, then I would have been lucky to get 10%. These lecturers were not the best (one of them was outstanding though) but they were helpful, not just by putting their notes up but they were also open to any questions and providing us with sample answers whilst the 2 in the other module are just plain stubborn and completely unhelpful.

[/rant]

GLaDOS

I'm fairly happy with most of my lecturers to be honest, surprised so many people have had trouble. Finishing up second year and there's only 1 lecturer I would rate as bad from my experience. There's been lecturers I don't like yeah, but not necessarily bad.

naturejinx

I think it's very hit and miss. Some lecturers are brilliant, and some sit in front of you and (no joke) read a print-out from Wikipedia for an hour or two. It's disgraceful that it's allowed.

Stev_o

See the problem is that while alot of these lecturers maybe be incredibly intelligent people a lot struggle at the social aspect of being able to communicate there knowledge with a student body. Iv had lectures who'v expressed the same emotion as a tree while others who are really able to connect with their class and it's the latter that's always going to be more effective lecturer. Sadly in my course as of yet iv only had maybe 2 or 3 that fall into that category.

CorkFenian

mickoneill30 wrote: »

I'm doing an evening course in DCU.

Last semester most students did reasonably well. I got 90% in one module last semester and for the follow on module this semester I'm pretty sure I'm heading for a fail. It's not for the lack of work.
There were two modules this semester. The one above and a second one. For the second module on the course this semester you could nearly do it without opening a book (if you'd any experience whatsoever).

Our lecturer was a bit "out there" with his methods and coming up to the end of the semester a few complaints were made and he gave us some more normal type lectures for our last two lectures. It was too little too late though for me and for a lot of guys. Apparently last year 60% failed this module last year. Nobody I talked to after our exam was confident of passing.

Do the lecturers in DCU get assessed or monitored? To me if you've got a class getting good marks in semester one and then a majority failing in semester two I would say either the subject is pitched too high or the lecturer is not good enough or semester one was pitched too low.

I know people who did the same course a few years ago and this module wasn't on it so when you tell them you've worked your ass off and aren't going to do well they think you're a bit thick based on the work they did and what they got
I'd imagine potential employers might have the same opinion.

It's just a bit frustrating I'm reasonably good at the subject but this semester was demoralising. The lecturer in question does a couple of courses and the complaints about him and the results are similar for the other courses.

Does DCU care? Or are they just interested in taking in money? There were quite a few empty desks around me during the exam for people who dropped out.
From my point of view there are two guys in my area who were interested in doing the course I'm on. Not any more.

It doesn't seem to be just one lecturer either. During semester one, one guy was basically reading from a book and was a bit confused when we were asking questions. Another missed a couple of lectures. I've no problem working hard (well I do, but I do it anyway) but I might as well have skipped a pile of lectures for all the help these guys were to me.

I'm also on that course, (guessing from your description) very disappointed overall, no input from lecturers , no background, basically turn up every Tueday\Wednesday and get fed a lot of disjointed information which is way ahead of what I can do,its geared towards someone working in that field, (from a programming point of view), that module should not be on an intro to IT (GDF) course which is what it is called predominantly...I'm not sorry I did the course, I just want to finish it now asap and get the fup out of it, I feel sorry for anyone doing the course without any relevant industry experience, they are the ones who have really wasted their time (besides myself with 10 years IT experience,I think I will continue doing the relevant industry certifications)...IMHO

mickoneill30

CorkFenian wrote: »

(besides myself with 10 years IT experience,I think I will continue doing the relevant industry certifications)...IMHO

I'm in the same boat. Similar years in IT, reasonably senior and looking like I'm going to fail a module in an IT diploma. I'm working in the networking area and was interested in the programming. My main aim was to go through this and then go onto the Masters. Now I'll just be happy if I pass.

Have a look at this.
http://computing.dcu.ie/current/gdf/skills.html

CorkFenian

mickoneill30 wrote: »

I'm in the same boat. Similar years in IT and looking like I'm going to fail a module in an IT diploma. I'm working in the networking area and was interested in the programming. My main aim was to go through this and then go onto the Masters. Now I'll just be happy if I pass.

Have a look at this.
http://computing.dcu.ie/current/gdf/skills.html

Well its at Masters level 9, we are on a masters programme right now from that point of view,a very similar Masters program to GDF is starting in UCD in Autumn, my main interest is sys admin\networking etc , have an interest like yourself in programming but 1st module did not prepare me , I think I could have worked harder (dont we all) but I did a good bit, the adv programming is done by someone who is very personable but he is clearly teaching the wrong people, bar a handful for that class...It was pretty obvious right from the first lecture IMHO...In some ways though I think someone is better off with no IT experience , if that makes sense, I think its a mile off what an intro to IT should be, having to do a Java project for 50% of a Network\Ops course, no relevant infrastructure topics, it should really be called an intro to becoming a programmer!!

stainluss

Is there ever a problem of not understanding what they are saying if they are foreign?

I noticed this on the open day in the business school...

H2G2

naturejinx wrote: »

... snip... and (no joke) read a print-out from Wikipedia for an hour or two.

naturejinx, Do you actually mean a lecturer stood up in front of a class for 2 hours and read from a Wikipedia printout. I am not an apologist for any lecturer - I have had my fair share of good and bad in DCU and beyond - but actually "reading from a from a Wikipedia printout for an hour or two" :eek: I simply do not believe you are telling the truth. Name and shame if its true. Lets hear the details. I think you are massively exaggerating.

Daysha

I think I know the lecturer you're talking about and he's not exaggerating. Some of us had our laptops open with the wilipedia page in question in front of us and it was basically pulling direct quotes from it. We were even able to tell what was coming up later in the lecture by just following through the contents.

As for naming and shaming, it's a grey area. Personally in cases like this I think lecturers should be held accountable for their (lack-of) teaching practices, but unfortunately there are issues regarding litigation and slander when naming specific individuals like this on a public forum.

I'm looking into it at the moment but while I get confirmation from one of the admins can you refrain from naming specific lecturers until I know exactly what the story is?

Thanks.

MonaghanPenguin

I don't know what the boards.ie policy is, but regardless of what it is, people should be very wary of what they say if they name lecturers on a public board, I've seen it lead to more trouble than it's actually worth. Remember you're talking about people's professional reputations and most people don't take that lightly.

Daysha

MonaghanPenguin wrote: »

I don't know what the boards.ie policy is, but regardless of what it is, people should be very wary of what they say if they name lecturers on a public board, I've seen it lead to more trouble than it's actually worth. Remember you're talking about people's professional reputations and most people don't take that lightly.

Too right, and we've decided we don't want naming and shaming of lecturers here, it's not the place to do it. If people have a particular problem with a lecturer there are ways to go about letting it be known, but this place isn't one of them.

Now that that's sorted out, bar that one example above the standard of lecturers I've experienced so far has been generally quite good. Of course there's going to be inconsistencies but the best lecturers are the ones that actually show a true passion for their field of study and enjoying working on it with their students, and I know certainly in my course I've seen lots of lecturers that would fall into that bracket.

H2G2

:eek: Daysha corroborates that you are not exaggerating... I am truly shocked they would read a wikipedia page for 2 hours! Giving a quote of 30 - 60 seconds I would understand, but more than that... speechless!

Ok so my Name and Shame suggestion is probably not a good thing here. But op should do so with the appropriate person/body, such as Programme Board chair, Head of School or Assoc Dean for Teaching & Learning.

There are some excellent lecturers in DCU, but are also some terrible ones. Several are absolutely narcissistic bell-ends.

Benny Lava

Same as everywhere...some good, some shite.

jdivision

Based on my experience, thumbs up to cheap, thumbs down to quality

gollem_1975

jdivision wrote: »

Based on my experience, thumbs up to cheap, thumbs down to quality

what do you mean by cheap.. assume you are referring to the fee's ?

phantom_lord

Deleted User wrote: »

There are some excellent lecturers in DCU

Yeah, i better mention that we've had some excellent lectures too, it's certainly not all bad!

Yukina

andyman wrote: »

We've had 4 lecturers this year in this module. 1 of them wasn't the best lecturer but he was very approachable and helpful and his notes are on moodle and are easy to learn from. Another lecturer put his notes on the N-Drive in the DCU system at the end of the semester (good idea, because people went to his lectures and he said he wasn't putting them up) whilst the other two have easily the most demanding part of the course and they were woeful lecturers and they simply refuse to put their notes on moodle to give us a hand (even at this stage). I wouldn't mind, but when I'm trying to take notes down, they just go straight through the slides without giving us a chance...

This module had a 90% failure rate last year (up from 75% the year before).

[/rant]

I'm just finished second year, and I definitely took this module, from your description I can even tell which lecturers were helpful. In second year the most unhelpful lecturer takes 1/3 of a module in semester 2, last year the fail rate was 55-60% the lecturiong style is all over the place and the questions asked don't match up to the exam questions, no examples of how to answer the questions are given and no lecture notes are provided! It is ridiculous... I was one of the VERY few that passed the first year module, obtaining an average of 73% across the board... Yet I'm fairly certain that I'm scraping a pass in the module this year...

It's not for lack of trying.... It's not for general ignorance... The lecturer in question is appealing, and as far as I can tell, nothing has been done to rectify the HUGE failure rates in their modules...

mickoneill30

Yukina wrote: »

I was one of the VERY few that passed the first year module, obtaining an average of 73% across the board... Yet I'm fairly certain that I'm scraping a pass in the module this year...

Well that's cheery. I was kind of hoping that the module in this semester was a one off.

rfowler

I did a search for top colleges to study technology in world wide and DCU didnt appear in the top 200. However, UCD and Trinity did so think about it before you sign up.

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2009/subject-rankings/technology

Somnus

Stev_o wrote: »

See the problem is that while alot of these lecturers maybe be incredibly intelligent people a lot struggle at the social aspect of being able to communicate there knowledge with a student body. Iv had lectures who'v expressed the same emotion as a tree while others who are really able to connect with their class and it's the latter that's always going to be more effective lecturer. Sadly in my course as of yet iv only had maybe 2 or 3 that fall into that category.

Definitely agree that this can be a problem. I have a lecturer who quite obviously really, really knows his stuff. I mean he's very knowledgeable, but his style and layout of lectures is really bad. They're quite disjointed and you're left without a sense of what the important thing to take from it is.

It's a shame as he's a good source of information, he just can't organise it!

Yukina

Dr.Poca wrote: »

I have a lecturer who quite obviously really, really knows his stuff. I mean he's very knowledgeable, but his style and layout of lectures is really bad.

I agree, this is always a pain because you know that they could do so much better but they just can't communicate... In fairness I admit wholeheartedly that I have the same problem, I would never consider teaching because I don't think it would be fair.

Personally I think it can be just as bad when you have a really good teacher that does not fully understand the material they are trying to teach. I'm a science student and one of my lecturers has their basic degree in education! So obviously they can teach, unfortunately you do get the impression that they don't understand the concepts behind the material that is being taught... How can you teach something you don't understand!!!:mad:

ramblingcelt

I have studied at DCU twice now. Did an IT convesrion course a few years back and was doing a finance course this year. I have to say that lecturing standards did vary and use of moodle was not always the best but was told part-time lecturers do not get access to the system currently.

I lwas ucky enough to attend 5 universities and can say the quality of lecturing does vary at all of them. In defence of DCU one of the best lecturers I have had still works there in IT but no longer on the convesrion course.

Sadly with the way our government funds (there's a joke :mad:!) third level, class sizes will only increase further and costs spiral so we will see more group work coming in and less access to lecturers especially at post-grad level. I would strongly advise anyone who is able to go abroad to do a Masters, especially in business as fees can be so much lower especially in the Netherlands, Germany and Belgium where many courses are in English.

I am very fond of my time in DCU but, in my opinion, they will need to watch the quality of lecturing, start taking the opinions of students more seriously and be less defensive. There is a still a view, I think, that students are to be processed through the system rather than thought of as customers. I have seen the benefits in other universities where a mature understanding and discussion of obligations in the learning partnership exist. DCU is not quite there yet but I hope the attitude will mature. I do believe students are still sometimes dealt with like secondary students. Do what you're told and pay your fees!

This can't last though. Ireland has changed and the more we have to pay in fees the more we want a say in the quality of the service we are purchasing. It is only reasonable.

Grolschevik

In my experience, many lecturers fall into either of two camps:.

a) Academics who are focused primarily on research and publication, and who see actual teaching as a distraction and an inconvenience.

b) Academics who love teaching and see research and publication as what they have to do in order to get a full-time job/get permanence/get promotion.

Of course there are also many academics who excel at both, but my feeling is that the younger ones, who may be casual/part-time/or new hires, are so focused on the absolute necessity of publishing the seemingly required several papers a year (depending on discipline, of course) to get a "proper" job, that they don't put as much effort into teaching as they should...

--LOS--

I would say overall the lecturers in DCU are top notch. Of course you will come across bad ones, ones that you are not so keen on etc but compared to other colleges, I feel the lecturers in DCU are more caring towards the students, that's my experience anyway.

Having said that there is unfortunately one bad lecturer on my course who is disliked by most people on the course, what's worse is that they are head of the course and any time I've tried to resolve anything concerning them, I am resigned to the fact that other lecturers will listen to someone like that far quicker than one of the students.