Can you spot the difference?

NG-DOC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkvMpE4pcag

vs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTZv7IEwMeo

does anyone have an opinion?

Barry.Oglesby

Ugh I've seen those guys. Fair enough I suppose they like to roll and do jiu jitsu like anyone else, but why not leave expertise to experts?

Sid_Justice

The first pair are not wearing a gi, the second pair are.

Chris89

One is Saulo Ribeiro and the other is that guy with the green jumper from the bash street kids;

NG-DOC

Sid_Justice wrote: »

The first pair are not wearing a gi, the second pair are.

First pair are also nobodies cashing in off the recent rise in popularity of BJJ and MMA. They have no qualifications, gradings, or competition experience.

The second pair, or more specifically instructor, is Saulo Ribeiro a multiple time ADCC and BJJ World Champion, a black belt under Royler Gracie.

I thought maybe people would get a discussion going on the dilution of bjj instruction, the growth of bjj in general and whether it's a good or bad thing, or even just if people could notice a difference in the teaching styles whether they train or not.

But i guess people just want to be funny.

Chris89

Theres that whole thing about your man Ari Bolden too, from submissions 101. I think thats his name anyway so sorry if im wrong.

He has a black belt in what i think is a traditional japanese martial art, but wears it with his BJJ kimono in his videos. He takes a huge amount of flak for this and im pretty sure he is a non competitive eddie bravo purple.

There was even an online petition to the Arnold last year as they hired him for a seminar and the bjj community wanted him out.

The thingh is though, subs101 have a huge amount of hits on their videos, primarily from noobs i would imagine as more experienced practitioners would have sussed them out.

I used to watch his videos, i dont any more as i recognise the differecne in standard, the same will be the case for his current subscribers. People will figure him out and then move on, same for those guys you posted too.

At the end of the day, they're not making any money off youtube, they're not winning any medals, only when they start taking new business away from big competitive schools will there be a problem. And i don't think that will be happening any time soon.

da-bres

Sid_Justice wrote: »

The first pair are not wearing a gi, the second pair are.

Great observation, your intelligent contributions to boards is overwhelming.

Its true, the first crowd are just jumping on the opportunity to get views, google clicks etc

You can make a lot of money using 'google adwords', also youtube pays royalties per hit after a certain amount of channel views..

To any noob submissions 101 and these dudes are gods of jiu jitsu, kind of sad for the guys who have spent 20 years on the mats perfecting the art.

Sid_Justice

Stop bullying me please.

First pair are also nobodies cashing in off the recent rise in popularity of BJJ and MMA. They have no qualifications, gradings, or competition experience.

Their lineage and reputation aside, can you point out the technical deficiencies in their tutorial?

da-bres

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Stop bullying me please.



Their lineage and reputation aside, can you point out the technical deficiencies in their tutorial?

Who's Bullying you?

The first group are very basic in their approach to the techniques, very hard to understand their vague terminology.


They also leave me asking many questions about the technique and how its performed, the latter group i.e. Saulo ribeiro, is quite definitive..

Sid_Justice

da-bres wrote: »

The first group are very basic in their approach to the techniques, very hard to understand their vague terminology.


They also leave me asking many questions about the technique and how its performed, the latter group i.e. Saulo ribeiro, is quite definitive..

To put the first clip in context, they're obviously people from Eddie Bravo's school and they're teaching material directly from his books and videos. Thus, as they mention and imply, a certain familiarity with the fundamentals of that system are required (know what lock-down is etc.). I'm not sure what you mean by basic, I would describe their techniques as non-fundamental, except for a couple of bits.

I've no idea about the italian chap in the gi.

NG-DOC

Sid_Justice wrote: »

To put the first clip in context, they're obviously people from Eddie Bravo's school and they're teaching material directly from his books and videos. Thus, as they mention and imply, a certain familiarity with the fundamentals of that system are required (know what lock-down is etc.). I'm not sure what you mean by basic, I would describe their techniques as non-fundamental, except for a couple of bits.

I've no idea about the italian chap in the gi.

No they aren't from eddie bravo's school, and yes they're teaching material right out of his books. That's pretty much the problem. Who couldn't do that and stick up a video?

They sure well may mention and imply a certain familiarity with the 'fundamentals of that system', i suspect this is because they have no knowledge of such fundamentals and skip to showing 'cool techniques', that they 'fly through' so that people who don't know any better will buy their crap.

I don't know much, at all, i'll happily admit that. But i know enough to spot the massive difference in both instruction and ability, simply by listening to this guy talk and the way he moves.

He uses general terminology, and eddie bravo jargon to sound cool and knowledgeable. Even the way he says "sooo we've landed in the half guard' to me sounds funny. His hip movement, or lack thereof is woeful (funniest bit is probably his 'whip up').

He keep saying stuff like "my first option here that i normally go for", or 'when i'm here i find this tough'. Hmmm so you normally go for this when? on who? and i'm sure you find it tough because you've no idea what you are talking about, and are simply exploiting naive people new to bjj who don't know any better.

The italian guy in gi however, spends almost as long explaining one technique, as the previous guys do about 10 (but don't wRy u Cn buy der Sw33t dvd guize). Saulo is extremely careful to point out all the minor details of each stage of the technique and moves smoothly throughout. At no stage does he flop around doing 'whip ups'. On top of this, the Italian guy is probably one of the most respected and successful competitors ever in BJJ, so i figure when he says something is the way to do it. It probably is. But you can believe the tubby hillbilly and his stoner control if you want...

I could probably talk about this for ages, but sid justice will probably just try and be funny again or claim no knowledge of anything, so i'm probably wasting my time!

Sid_Justice

Well all I can say Saulo has come very far since owning that chipper in Phibsboro.

dkdavey67

This type of guff is happening not just with bjj but all types of instruction. For instance I play the drums aswell and there is a huge volume of videos uploaded by people who should be getting lessons themselves rather than giving them, some of it is laughable. I think people buying in to this stuff comes from the times we live in, that they think well if this guy is appearing on my laptop he must be good. Another reason is lazyness, part of this goes back to the "pulling guard" thread, that a lot of people don't know who are the big players in bjj and a quick google or you tube search throws up hill billy biff from the bash street kids.
One thing that annoyed me about submissions 101 is that, I cant remember if it was said in a video or was just a blurb on their site, they were making out that the short runing time of their videos was a good thing.
I suppose at the end of the day if there is a product out there, in this case bjj instruction, there will be people at the pinnacle of it offering the best product and there will be cheap knock off's thrown out by people looking to make a quick buck and it's up to the public to do the research.

da-bres

dkdavey67 wrote: »

This type of guff is happening not just with bjj but all types of instruction. For instance I play the drums aswell and there is a huge volume of videos uploaded by people who should be getting lessons themselves rather than giving them, some of it is laughable. I think people buying in to this stuff comes from the times we live in, that they think well if this guy is appearing on my laptop he must be good. Another reason is lazyness, part of this goes back to the "pulling guard" thread, that a lot of people don't know who are the big players in bjj and a quick google or you tube search throws up hill billy biff from the bash street kids.
One thing that annoyed me about submissions 101 is that, I cant remember if it was said in a video or was just a blurb on their site, they were making out that the short runing time of their videos was a good thing.
I suppose at the end of the day if there is a product out there, in this case bjj instruction, there will be people at the pinnacle of it offering the best product and there will be cheap knock off's thrown out by people looking to make a quick buck and it's up to the public to do the research.

Pretty much sums the whole thing up for me:)
Cheers

judosean2005

Although both men obviously have skills.it all come down to the situation.The first guy is all about wanting butterfly guard.not even escaping.Which to me shows that he has a few ticks in his bag that he likes to use during butterfly guard which is fine for some people.I hate any type of guard.
The second guy is a funny one,i know very few fighters that will intentionally turn their back to you even if the opponent is getting away.better to let him up and start over then to give up your back in any position. Howeveer i do see that he is tying to escape not get into another guard position..But if someone wants to come down on you in a flash,you aint gonna have time to put that elbow up.and if u do (if he is any good) he is gonna move position and not stay there,letting the guy move all around and he is just holding bottom half.

Sean

Barry.Oglesby

judosean2005 wrote: »

Although both men obviously have skills.it all come down to the situation.The first guy is all about wanting butterfly guard.not even escaping.Which to me shows that he has a few ticks in his bag that he likes to use during butterfly guard which is fine for some people.I hate any type of guard.
The second guy is a funny one,i know very few fighters that will intentionally turn their back to you even if the opponent is getting away.better to let him up and start over then to give up your back in any position. Howeveer i do see that he is tying to escape not get into another guard position..But if someone wants to come down on you in a flash,you aint gonna have time to put that elbow up.and if u do (if he is any good) he is gonna move position and not stay there,letting the guy move all around and he is just holding bottom half.

Sean

Hey Sean,

I pass half guard almost exclusively the way that the guy in the second video does. Twisting to that position is a good way of nullifying a good attacking half guard game. It's a very common position in BJJ, not so much elsewhere. As for the critique of the elbow up position, it's actually very similar to the switch from freestyle wrestling where your opponent double legs you, so if you know of that move you can see the mechanics of how it would work. I've also been swept using that move when I was in top half guard by a crafty hobbit from Kerry.

I'm sure there's something similar in Judo (there usually is in every grappling sport), perhaps in the few seconds between being taken down and flattened out.

Barry

Tim_Murphy

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Hey Sean,

I pass half guard almost exclusively the way that the guy in the second guy does.

Same as.

RearNakedJim

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Hey Sean,

I pass half guard almost exclusively the way that the guy in the second video does.

Ditto

Burnt

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

I'm sure there's something similar in Judo (there usually is in every grappling sport), perhaps in the few seconds between being taken down and flattened out.

Barry

Barry,

This means of passing half guard; which strangly does in fact have an official judo name "Ashi Kannucki, does exist commonly enough in Judo,
you just need to know where to look or who to ask