Is Music Getting Worse??

CrashBandicoot Girl

Just to start off I'm not an 'oldie' I'm in my teens and this is not a thread where you start attacking people for having a different opinion to yourself.

You see I love old skool rap and classic rock and metal and jazz even classic and disco!! To be honest I love a bit of all genres ( except maybe heavy metal.)I like alot of modren songs but I see someone like Justin Bieber who to me seems like a 'cash cow' and I've noticed more like Jonas Brothers and anyone by Louis Walsh. Then alot of stuff sounds the same but I suppose thats everywhere.

But then I see Lady GaGa and other great songwriters and I think this gen of music is great so I was wondering what's your opinion? Because in all honesty I'm torn but I'd say the past wins out for me.

MagicMarker

CrashBandicoot Girl wrote: »

But then I see Lady GaGa and other great songwriters

FAIL

CrashBandicoot Girl

Also I forgot to say could you tell me why you think it is or is'nt getting worse in your post!:)

CrashBandicoot Girl

MagicMarker wrote: »

FAIL

I said NO mention of differing opinions!:mad:

lordgoat

MagicMarker wrote: »

FAIL

Name someone that can write as good a pop song as her at the moment?

Music is getting better imo. You just have to look harder to find it rather than giving out about there being no good music.

MagicMarker

lordgoat wrote: »

Name someone that can write as good a pop song as her at the moment?

My arse.

FearDark

lordgoat wrote: »

Name someone that can write as good a pop song as her at the moment?

Music is getting better imo. You just have to look harder to find it rather than giving out about there being no good music.

Who said pop was good? Pop is lowest common denominator when it comes to music.

Rigsby

Seven posts in and we are into a slagging match already :rolleyes:

Guys, it's an interesting topic, if you want it to be.

I'm an old school guy myself, but something good and contempory always comes along now and then.

Also, there is no such thing as "good/bad" music.... that is in the ear of the beholder

rcaz

There's so much great music in the world, and it just keeps on being made. I don't get the point in dividing between 'old' and 'new'... If you decide you only want to listen to old/new stuff, you're missing all the great things happening in the other bit.

Someone who complains about there being no good music isn't looking hard enough. There's a lot of rubbish pop music that's marketed all over the place, but if you go and look for music, all that stuff is such a tiny minority. Get into classical, get into electronic stuff, get into jazz, it's all still going on right now, and it's only going forward.

The way the music industry is going right now, there will HAVE to be a big change soon. It can't sustain itself this way. I've noticed a lot more 'good' bands (I say 'good' because I don't like them, but they're still putting more thought into their music than previous 'popular' bands) getting noticed, like Antlers, Foals, Crystal Castles. Maybe some bands with staying power might come out of this new trend for bands with decent music.

lordgoat

FearDark wrote: »

Who said pop was good? Pop is lowest common denominator when it comes to music.

I'd say the majority of people who listen to music, listen to pop music. Go into any large music shop and what is the biggest section that sells the most records? I'd say the people that buy them and listen to it say that it's good.

Whether you like it or not, your snobbish attitude toward it is very misguided.

Also the beatles and michael jackson are well regarded within music i'm pretty sure most people would classify one or the other as being good or at least understand their importance.

lordgoat

MagicMarker wrote: »

My arse.

You should get it to bring out an album, maybe it'll be bigger than beyonce's.

maccored

i would take a guess that if you could jump into dr who's tardis and zip back through the decades, this same discussion would be taking place no matter what era you landed in. music and its interpretation is subjective (probably) to the era its written in. Im sure when punk hit, people thought 'real' music was written by the beatles. when music went crap in the mid 80s, a lot of people probably preferred punk.

maccored

lordgoat wrote: »

You should get it to bring out an album, maybe it'll be bigger than beyonce's.

to be fair, more popular doesnt translate to being better. a fart concept album though ... hmmm

lordgoat

maccored wrote: »

to be fair, more popular doesnt translate to being better. a fart concept album though ... hmmm

That's not my point though, my point is some people are afraid or don't like to recognise pop as a valid genre. Like it or not a good pop song is still one of the most difficult things to consistently do in music.

jimi_t2

Old Music > New Music

Why?

The filter of time. There was as much ****e back then as there is now, its just that the good stuff tends to have longevity

The fact that all the modern music you reference has the most mainstream artists possible means that you're a chart head. Nothing wrong with that, it just negates you from making any sort of credible comment on the state of music.

The charts is 90% a product of various marketing groups. Most of these people make shag all money because they're nothing but a pretty face. The producers in the background of most of these pop acts are wholly responsible for their ''sound'', and as such are very very rich men.

Through the opening of distribution channels and the overall democratisation of music production, you can now produce credible, radio-friendly records from your bedroom for about 2k.

If you were born in the generation you profess to love, you'd be stuck listening to Radio Caroline in about five glorious layers of static.

Go out there, do some proper searching on last.fm/pandora/google and come back in a months time if you want any sort of productive discussion. Otherwise its just you expressing an uninformed viewpoint with your fingers in your ears veiled as an open debate.

jimi_t2

lordgoat wrote: »

Like it or not a good pop song is still one of the most difficult things to consistently do in music.

Problem is that the charts have very little correalation with 'pop' music.

''Pop'' I'd deem a genre by itself, ''Popular Music'' a catch-all term for what people are told to like by the media.

Pop = Lily Allen ''The Fear''
Popular Music = Jedward ''Ice Ice Baby Megamix''

But music being as subjective a thing as humanly possible, fair enough if you disagree. Just the way I see it.

DublinWriter

CrashBandicoot Girl wrote: »

But then I see Lady GaGa and other great songwriters and I think this gen of music is great so I was wondering what's your opinion? Because in all honesty I'm torn but I'd say the past wins out for me.

Musical snobbery will always abound. Back in the day (my day, the 1980's), the more popular something was, the more it should be despised and the more obscure something was the more it was vaunted by the musical elitists - OMG Dude, have you actually heard the Urdu throat singers of Usbekistaan, loike Beck totally samples them...etc etc.

Basically, what's good is good, ref Half Man Half Biscuit's Irk the Purists for more information.

The past will always win out because the past is a different country, and different countries are always more exotic.

jimi_t2

DublinWriter wrote: »

Musical snobbery will always abound. Back in the day (my day, the 1980's), the more popular something was, the more it should be despised and the more obscure something was the more it was vaunted by the musical elitists - OMG Dude, have you actually heard the Urdu throat singers of Usbekistaan, loike Beck totally samples them...etc etc.

Yeah, but the problem is that the Urdu throat singers probably had some intrinsic quality and talent in them that people were able to see despite their unfamiliar approach to music.

The people who steal the main hook from their track, however, and then pay them a pittance and then spend a couple of hours rapping about b*tches and hennessy over it to earn a couple of million; they're the real criminals. So many great great songs have been absolutely mauled by mainstream acts sampling them.

(Conversely, turntablism and sampling in electronic music and proper hip-hop is about as creative an endeavour as you could hope to get into)

The past will always win out because the past is a different country, and different countries are always more exotic.

Despite the MASSIVE 80s revival, the booming ''party band'' circuit, shows like Glee etc... ?

If anything, its a warm, familiar country. Very safe but with a complete lack of creativity.

Good music is good music generally because its produced by someone with musical ability. Very few chart acts have this, and hence need some serious producers behind them. You'll never see the likes of Girls Aloud doing an unplugged or acapella show. If they were able for this, they wouldn't be autotuned into near oblivion and have to lipsync a live show.

You can call them entertainers or whatever else, but they sure as hell ain't competent singers or musicians (even the ginger one, god bless her).

CrashBandicoot Girl

I'm not saying I do'nt like modren music I'm just saying I prefer for the most part old school music and whoever made the 'charthead' comment I'm using stuff in the charts in this discussion because that's what the majority of people listen to so that's what this discuusion was meant to be about. Old music that was in the chart vs. the newer stuff that's in the chart and new I'm looking at late 90's to 2010

Futureadvocate

lordgoat wrote: »

Name someone that can write as good a pop song as her at the moment?

Ladyhawke.

jimi_t2

CrashBandicoot Girl wrote: »

I'm not saying I do'nt like modren music I'm just saying I prefer for the most part old school music and whoever made the 'charthead' comment I'm using stuff in the charts in this discussion because that's what the majority of people listen to

The majority of people don't 'listen' to the charts, they 'hear' the charts as they're inundated with it. But hey, subtle distinction, fair enough.

so that's what this discuusion was meant to be about. Old music that was in the chart vs. the newer stuff that's in the chart and new I'm looking at late 90's to 2010

Woah there horsey, you've changed direction a small bit. You started off by saying

You see I love old skool rap and classic rock and metal and jazz even classic and disco!!

So I thought we'd take a look through the late 70s and 80s. But no, thats grand. Late 90s just makes my job that bit easier

Have a look through the Number 1s on the Irish chart for the late 90s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number-one_singles_of_1999_(Ireland)
(Highlights -
I Have a Dream/Seasons In The Sun - Westlife
Swear It Again - Westlife
Candle for Kosovo - Rain / Various Artists
32 Counties - Dustin the Turkey

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number-one_singles_of_1998_(Ireland)
"C'est La Vie" - B*Witched (6 ****ing weeks)
"Believe" - Cher
"All That I Need" - Boyzone
''Doctor Jones'' - Aqua

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number-one_singles_of_1997_(Ireland)
Con Te Partiro (Time to Say Goodbye) - Sarah Brightman & Andrea Bocelli
Mmmbop - Hanson
Good Lookin' Woman - Dustin & Joe Dolan
Barbie Girl - Aqua

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number-one_singles_of_1996_(Ireland)
Aon Focal Eile - Richie Kavanagh (7 ****ing weeks)
Man United Man - Men United
Rat Trap - Dustin & Bob Geldof (3 Weeks, notice a pattern?)
Spaceman - Babylon Zoo (Appalling song after first 40 odd seconds)

Now there was a lot of great great songs in this period, but I'm just concentrating on NUMBER ONES in the CHARTS as thats where you set the goalposts. Bet your internal nostalgia filtered out all this dross.

Over the list, they constitute a FULL YEAR taking up the number one spot on the charts.

Hands up if anyone knows where any of these ''acts'' are today.

PMI

lordgoat wrote: »

Name someone that can write as good a pop song as her at the moment?

J. R. Rotem
Scot Storch
Stargate
Dr. Luke
Butch Walker

These are the money making boys of the moment producers/songwriters doing the derulo/avril/rihanna/neyo/shakira/jordin sparx stuff

jimi_t2

Argh, I misread a bit of your post even though I quoted it and bolded it :rolleyes:

I'll be back to refute your claims at some point, but suggest you hit the wiki for number singles for the 70s, 80s etc...

A V A

i think music is getting better with technology, im into electronic music like early depeche mode, john foxx and human league etc u get the idea. . well back then they were limited to what they could do with synthesizers drum machines and recording gear etc . . .look at what we can do now with the music now a days !!!! the talent that is out there is amazing such as mr hudson ( well under read as an artist) lady gaga , take that ( no matter what people say gary barlow is a great writter he has wrote many songs for many artists such as shirly bassy) i find my self moving my leg or moving to a beat of a song because its written well or the music is great or what ever the case maybe,not who is singing it . . that doesnt really matter to me at all.i just admire the structure of the song!!! there are some ridiculous stuff out there but most of the sho*It is all a cash cow !!!! the mainstream artists are there to make money etc and drag as much fame as they can before their 2 or 3 year run dry out !!! im in to all shorts of music is unreal and i write music my self with diferent amounts of people and what we can do now is amazing let alone what the people that have the power in their hands to do
im not sayin the likes of jedward are brilliant ( they are not :mad:) i think that short is bloody crap but again its all a cash cow thats the way things are these days !!!! that wnt really change to be honest :rolleyes:

Kold

Music isn't getting worse. Kids are getting lazier.

Kold

lordgoat wrote: »

Name someone that can write as good a pop song as her at the moment?

Regina Spektor, Passion Pit, Feist, Foals.

H8GHOTI

You do hear a lot of people saying "Ah music was much better years ago". I think some of that is definitely people being nostalgic. There is loads of good new music being made. A numbers of posters have mentioned good bands & made the point that you just have to look for them. That is true.

It'll be interesting to see in 10 or 20 years time, if there is a MTV Classics channel around then, will they play much music that was released this year.

Clanket

Does Lady Gaga even write her own songs?

If she does I'm guessing it's the lyrics which in the most part are attrocious.

CrashBandicoot Girl

Alofthedunnes wrote: »

Does Lady Gaga even write her own songs?

If she does I'm guessing it's the lyrics which in the most part are attrocious.

Nah she writes the lyrics and music and wrote music for alot of other artists I believe:)

Fringe

The only reason why old school is good is because all the crap back then has been filtered out and forgotten and all that's left is the greatest.

DarkJager

Its on a downhill slope and shows no signs of stopping anytime soon. Every song is the same repetetive crap, especially with all these female artists. You hear one song about the bastard ex boyfriend or being a prick tease in a club, you've heard them all. Then you have these "kid stars" like that Bieber clown, who nobody over the age of 3 should be caught dead listening to (and nobody with a shread of musical dignity would have signed in the first place). Lady Gaga....I just don't get it, I really don't. Her songs are utter ****, she has the most irritating voice ever, and goes around wearing ridiculous outfits to appear like some kooky "artiste" - and she's famous for that???

Music on the radio isn't about music anymore...its all about money. And for that reason alone, you can't even class this as music. Real music is an expression of the artist, this is just cheap vapid karoake crap to make a few quid.

Kold

DarkJager wrote: »

Its on a downhill slope and shows no signs of stopping anytime soon. Every song is the same repetetive crap, especially with all these female artists. You hear one song about the bastard ex boyfriend or being a prick tease in a club, you've heard them all. Then you have these "kid stars" like that Bieber clown, who nobody over the age of 3 should be caught dead listening to (and nobody with a shread of musical dignity would have signed in the first place). Lady Gaga....I just don't get it, I really don't. Her songs are utter ****, she has the most irritating voice ever, and goes around wearing ridiculous outfits to appear like some kooky "artiste" - and she's famous for that???

Music on the radio isn't about music anymore...its all about money. And for that reason alone, you can't even class this as music. Real music is an expression of the artist, this is just cheap vapid karoake crap to make a few quid.

You're talking specifically about pop music though. As has been rehashed so many times, delve deeper and you'll be rewarded.

jimi_t2

Kold wrote: »

You're talking specifically about pop music though. As has been rehashed so many times, delve deeper and you'll be rewarded.

Exactly.

Even RTE have upped their game and have some brilliant digital/online stations like RTE Pulse.

If you listen to the lowest common denominator, what are you expecting?

strobe

The amount of awful awful music put out in the 60's and 70's should be declared one of humanities greatest crimes. The good stuff is remembered the bad is forgotten. If I was to name the songs that were out when I was 14 or 15 (the 90's), to anyone that hadn't lived at that time it would seem like it was some glorious golden age for modern music, because I can remember dozens of great tracks but only a handful of the crap ones. That's all there is to it really.

palethinboy

yeah there is just as much good music out now that there was in the past, it's just not mainstream. plus all the crap from times gone by has been left in the bin

Executive Steve

FearDark wrote: »

Who said pop was good? Pop is lowest common denominator when it comes to music.

RUBBISH

dasdog

None of us small islanders have sufficent exposure to really comment. There is an arguement for sports and music being a way out in the past that doesn't really apply these days. And the shít filter is useful not just for music but movies as well. What I don't want to see is an 80's revival because it was bad enough the first time. The tools available these days are incredible. I hope they are being put to good use.

pkumohideeile

strobe wrote: »

The amount of awful awful music put out in the 60's and 70's should be declared one of humanities greatest crimes. The good stuff is remembered the bad is forgotten. If I was to name the songs that were out when I was 14 or 15 (the 90's), to anyone that hadn't lived at that time it would seem like it was some glorious golden age for modern music, because I can remember dozens of great tracks but only a handful of the crap ones. That's all there is to it really.

Seriously, could you post a few names of the crap ones and (hopefully) some clips or youtube links (if even possible, probably not) just to know what the crap was like? Call it musical appreciation, appreciating that there was crap aswell as gold. Ah go on, for a laugh.

RichTea

MagicMarker wrote: »

My arse.

MagicMarker wrote: »

FAIL

Over the top on the GaGa hate. There are a lot worse out there.

login1

I don't think it's getting any worse , it's pretty much consistant, musical talent doesn't nosedive over a generation.

Also Lady GaGa is the biz

lordgoat

pkumohideeile wrote: »

Seriously, could you post a few names of the crap ones and (hopefully) some clips or youtube links (if even possible, probably not) just to know what the crap was like? Call it musical appreciation, appreciating that there was crap aswell as gold. Ah go on, for a laugh.

Fred Garrity - Freddie and the Dreamers.

Gary Puckett & his Union Gap


not sure if there's youtubes of these but there are amulitude of crap bands like these from the 60's. If there is someone's name in the band it's a pretty good indication of ****eness generally.

norwegianwood

Not at all. Yeah, the majority of stuff you hear played on the radio is a load of balls, but there are some really great artists out there, that just don't get a lot of air time. You have to be willing to look for them yourself.

qwertplaywert

I never got the whole 'music used to be so much better' arguement. If you look back to the 80s,70s , 60s sure there are celebrated albums, but theres also an unholy amount of dross.
I've always thought the internet has played a big part in peoples preceptions of 'theres no good music anymore'- there is, but due to wider and new distrabution methods, theres a lot more of it, so you have to go through a lot of **** to get to the good stuff.

That made sense in my head

SuperInfinity

Alofthedunnes wrote: »

Does Lady Gaga even write her own songs?

If she does I'm guessing it's the lyrics which in the most part are attrocious.

How could you even come up with this...??? There is no reason to think that whatsoever.

The people who hate Lady Gaga are stupid. They have no taste of their own and hate her only because they think they're supposed to because she's popular and has pop elements in her music.

Kold

SuperInfinity wrote: »

How could you even come up with this...??? There is no reason to think that whatsoever.

The people who hate Lady Gaga are stupid. They have no taste of their own and hate her only because they think they're supposed to because she's popular and has pop elements in her music.

I'm highly indifferent to Gaga but some people may legitimately dislike it. I can't put it on the level of hatred I may have for the Killers or the Black Eyed Peas who genuinely irritated me but I find very little to like about it. This 'people hate something because it's popular' is only a half truth spouted by lazy debaters.

Clanket

SuperInfinity wrote: »

How could you even come up with this...??? There is no reason to think that whatsoever.

The people who hate Lady Gaga are stupid. They have no taste of their own and hate her only because they think they're supposed to because she's popular and has pop elements in her music.

No need to get your nickers in a twist. To say anyone that hates Lady Gaga is stupid, has no taste of their own and only hate her because she's popular is ridiculous. And to be honest just shows your immaturity.

If you like her fine, enjoy her music. And I've heard she puts on quite a show, which is great. But don't be annoyed if others hate her manufactured drivel that's aimed at 12 year olds.

Each to their own.

irishh_bob

Alofthedunnes wrote: »

No need to get your nickers in a twist. To say anyone that hates Lady Gaga is stupid, has no taste of their own and only hate her because she's popular is ridiculous. And to be honest just shows your immaturity.

If you like her fine, enjoy her music. And I've heard she puts on quite a show, which is great. But don't be annoyed if others hate her manufactured drivel that's aimed at 12 year olds.

Each to their own.

i associate the term manufactured with the likes of westlife , boyzone etc , baschically , unoriginal and contrived , lady ga ga is nothing like this , she is thee most original and authentic ( mainstram ) artist out there at the moment

Jordan Berbatov

Lady GaGa is an absolute beast for churning out great pop tunes, seriously catchy.

Lothaar v2

Ok - I'm not a Lady Gaga fan... but I appreciate her musical ability. She IS the real deal. I'll never forget how far my jaw dropped watching her perform an acoustic version of (the then unreleased) Telephone at the BRIT awards. She can really sing and play music.

Check it out (the piano bit, it goes downhill at the end):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G0yI46vfeY

In fact, if Gaga performed all of her songs in that style, I'd probably be a huge fan.