Question for vegetarians: do you/ would you eat shellac?

sweet-rasmus

I was discussing this with members of the Irish Vegetarian Society Committee and we were undecided on what the general stance of Irish Vegetarians were to this. I would love to hear your thoughts and I will pass it back on the the Society.

Wikipedia wrote:

Shellac is a resin secreted by the female lac bug, on trees in the forests of India and Thailand. It is processed and sold as dry flakes (pictured at right), which are dissolved in denatured alcohol to make liquid shellac, which is used as a brush-on colorant, food glaze[1] and wood finish.

...The raw shellac, which contains bark shavings and lac bug parts, is placed in canvas tubes (much like long socks) and heated over a fire. This causes the shellac to liquefy, and it seeps out of the canvas leaving the bark and bug parts behind. The thick sticky shellac is then dried into a flat sheet and broken up into flakes when dried, or dried into "buttons" (pucks/cakes), and then bagged and sold. The end-user then mixes it with denatured alcohol on-site a few days prior to use in order to dissolve the flakes and make liquid shellac.

...Shellac is edible and it is used as a glazing agent on pills (see excipients) and candies in the form of pharmaceutical glaze (alternatively, confectioner's glaze). Because of its alkaline properties, shellac-coated pills may be used for a timed enteric or colonic release.[11] It is also used to replace the natural wax of the apple, which is removed during the cleaning process.[12] When used for this purpose, it has the food additive E number E904. This coating is not vegan and most likely not vegetarian either as it may, and probably does, contain crushed insects. In the tablet manufacture trade, it is sometimes referred to as "beetlejuice"[citation needed] for this reason.

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shellac


Personally, it would not be my cup of tea, but I was wondering what you guys think?

Whispered

I do try to avoid it. Mainly coz it touched a bug (joking)

I would look at it the same as honey really. It's not animal friendly and not vegan, but if you were to say that it is not vegetarian due to the fact inscts die during its production, you could almost say that milk/cheese/eggs are not vegetarian either using that logic. And of course, they are considered vegetarian iykwim.

^^hot weather = garbled thoughts

entropi

I actively avoid eating products with shellac in the ingredient list, I just will not, as a vegetarian, eat something knowingly having part of an animal in the creation process. If I dont see people who eat fish as being vegetarian, then how can I see myself being one if I didnt avoid this product.

Oh I never buy apples with a glaze, on the off-chance they have had shellac as a glazing agent.

Tar.Aldarion

I don't eat it. Nor do any vegetarian friends that I have, that I know of.

anothernight

Ewww gross! I don't eat it either. Can't see why a vegetarian would want to eat something that used to have bits of animals in it tbh. In fact I never quite understood why it tends to be considered vegetarian by a lot of food companies.

Tar.Aldarion

anothernight wrote: »

Ewww gross! I don't eat it either. Can't see why a vegetarian would want to eat something that used to have bits of animals in it tbh. In fact I never quite understood why it tends to be considered vegetarian by a lot of food companies.

Yeah at the world culture fair(or whatever it is called) in Dun Laoghaire I was given packets of jelly beans that were all about the 'no gelatin' written all over them...then there is shellac in them.

I'm ok with the death of things like slugs and insects.

Ms. Koi

I avoid it at all times!!! Smarties have it in them too!
The fact I'm trying to eat really healthy at the moment is also helping this. But it hasn't happened this morning, I had 2 bagels with real butter. Damnit. They were yummy though. Pants.

I honestly don't see the point in avoiding all animal products and by products, and then eating food with shellac in them. I'm very strict when it comes to the contents of the food I eat, so I actually get annoyed if I eat something by mistake that has stuff in it.
For example...muller light yoghurts. I was half way through the toffee ones (Which are amazing), but I looked at the side of the carton and there was gelatine in them. There was no need for gelatine in a yoghurt.
A lot of strawberry yoghurts aren't vegetarian, on the same topic.

x

Mark Hamill

I kinda torn on this issue myself.
On the one hand, i eat honey so the idea of shellac coming from insects doesn't bother me, but on the other hand, it does likely kill insects at some point during the production process. The thing about that is that even things like bread making can kill insects and small animals (mice and the like being killed during wheat reaping unintentionally yet unavoidably) and that doesn't bother me.
I'm more bothered about cochineal though.

Ms. Koi

Cochineal really bothers me

sweetoblivion

I'd definitely try and avoid shellac...that said, I do eat honey. So I'm not sure if that's hypocritical!
I definitely avoid cochineal - even pre-veg days I felt weird about using it.

raah!

I don't knowingly consume it myself, but it's not one of the things that I would really be on the look out for. I wouldn't really use any of the things it's in anyway, but I don't think I would be massively bothered if I used some by accident. The bugs aren't in there deliberately after all. And it would raise alot of questions about organic vegetable farmers killing slugs and things.

Anyway, to summarise this useless post, I'm unsure about the ethics of it, but don't use shellac products anyway. But if I would probably sample some of those shellac jellies tar had there. I might feel a bit guilty, but I would still try them.

sweet-rasmus

Good to hear all your replies, and so many opinions. All very important

maameeo

its something i check for and avoid when i read ingredients but I can imagine I had consumed it before by accident. it wouldnt freak me out as much as meat/gelatin, if id consumed them by accident id feel sick. dont know why it makes a difference, i probably see it as honey and bees also, not sure

Aoifums

I think I used to when I was a vegetarian. I don't anymore though.

sponsoredwalk

kellief wrote: »

I avoid it at all times!!! Smarties have it in them too!

Yeah but skittles don't so they make up for smarties :cool:

kellief wrote: »

A lot of strawberry yoghurts aren't vegetarian, on the same topic.

Alpro soya ones are, luckily

No shellac for me thanx, and definitely not in my cup of tea

Tar.Aldarion

Don't skittles have cochineal/E120 no? Can't wait to check to see if I can eat them, I thought I couldn't...love the sours too.

sponsoredwalk

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Don't skittles have cochineal/E120 no? Can't wait to check to see if I can eat them, I thought I couldn't...love the sours too.

Skittles used to be unsuitable for vegans and vegetarians because they contain shellac and gelatin, which are both derived from animals; the gelatin also renders them unfit for observant Jews and Muslims, as gelatin is frequently made from pigs or from animals that have not been slaughtered in accordance with their dietary laws (Kashrut and Dhabihah halal, respectively). Recently, however, Mars appears to have begun removing gelatin from some of their products, including Skittles.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skittles_%28confectionery%29

Alright, that seems well and good, but I found this link here which led me to THIS link here & it has dredged up one of few grey area's in my opinion.

Mars' Heartless Animal Experiments

Not one of Mars' experiments on animals is required by law. Even so, Mars has paid experimenters to kill untold numbers of animals in tests:

• Mars recently funded an experiment on rats at the University of California, San Francisco, to determine the effect of chocolate ingredients on the animals' blood vessels, even though the experimenter admitted that studies have already been done using humans. Experimenters force-fed the rats by shoving plastic tubes down their throats and then cut open the rats' legs to expose an artery, which was clamped shut to block blood flow. After the experiment, the animals were killed.
• Mars funded a deadly experiment on mice that was published in a 2007 issue of the Journal of Neuroscience in which mice were fed flavanols (phytochemicals that are found in chocolate) and forced to swim in a pool of water mixed with white paint to hide a submerged platform, which the mice had to find in order to avoid drowning, only to be killed and dissected later on.
• In one experiment supported by Mars and conducted by the current Mars, Inc., endowed chair in developmental nutrition at the University of California, Davis, rats were fed cocoa and anesthesized with carbon dioxide so that blood could be collected by a needle injected directly into the heart—a procedure criticized by U.S. Department of Agriculture researcher Dr. William T. Golde, who notes: “This is not a simple method. … Missing the heart or passing the needle completely through the heart could lead to undetected internal bleeding or other complications.”
• Mars supported a cruel experiment to learn how a chocolate ingredient called PQQ affects metabolism by cramming baby mice into 200-milliliter Plexiglas metabolic chambers—around half the size of a 12-ounce soda can—and then submerging the chamber for nearly five hours in a chilled water bath, inducing labored breathing in the distressed mice. Experimenters then shoved tubes down the mice’s throats every day for 10 days to force-feed them the PQQ, after which they were killed and cut up for analysis.
• Mars funded a test in which experimenters forced rabbits to eat a high-cholesterol diet with varying amounts of cocoa, then cut out and examined tissue from the rabbits' primary blood vessel to the heart to determine the effect of cocoa on rabbits’ muscle tissue.
• Mars supported a test in which experimenters attached plastic tubes to arteries in guinea pigs' necks and injected cocoa ingredients into their jugular veins to examine the effect of cocoa ingredients on their blood pressure.

:eek:

Alright, so whatever your opinion on the scientific need to use animal testing in certain cases this seems so ridiculous because there are better tests that there's no way I'm going to touch any starburst, or skittles, or pretty much anything in a statoil topaz or londis costcutters confectionary area

Mark Hamill

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Don't skittles have cochineal/E120 no? Can't wait to check to see if I can eat them, I thought I couldn't...love the sours too.

They do have cochineal (E120) in them (uk site with ingredient list here), so they arent veggie/vegan.

Mark Hamill

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

Alright, so whatever your opinion on the scientific need to use animal testing in certain cases this seems so ridiculous because there are better tests that there's no way I'm going to touch any starburst, or skittles, or pretty much anything in a statoil topaz or londis costcutters confectionary area

According to the american website , Mars owns Extra and Orbit chewing gum (actually they own all of wrigleys chewing gum), Uncle Bens Rice, Flavia coffee, CirkyHealth cocoa drinks, Pedigree and Royal Canin dog foods and Whiskers cat foods. So there's some more things to avoid if you dont like the Mars companys testing practises.

sponsoredwalk

Omg, this just keeps going back to capitalism :P

The goddamn rice & chewing gum sneaks!

I actually haven't checked in well over a year on all the E numbers etc...

I guess it's time to go back & do it all again :cool: