house alarm system costs

tommycahir

Hi all,
I'm currently considering installing a house alarm. We are living in the South East and some of the quotes we have got are in the range of €800-€900 with an additional €350 for a GSM pay as you go sim based system.
The house has 12 small windows, front door, back door, french patio doors, and I would also be looking at 1 motion sensor for the hall.
The house already has 6 core wire running to all the doors and windows so I hoping that would reduce the cost.

Any info/advice with regard to cost estimates would be greatly appreciated.

Also if anybody wants to recommend an installer in the southeast please feel free to PM me the contact details.

Regards
Tommy

KoolKid

That price is not too far off the mark. Maybe you could get it to €700-€800.
My recommendation would be a PSTN dialler insted of GSM . That would save you another €200 + call costs . I would not recommend GSM

altor

tommycahir wrote: »

Hi all,
I'm currently considering installing a house alarm. We are living in the South East and some of the quotes we have got are in the range of €800-€900 with an additional €350 for a GSM pay as you go sim based system.
The house has 12 small windows, front door, back door, french patio doors, and I would also be looking at 1 motion sensor for the hall.
The house already has 6 core wire running to all the doors and windows so I hoping that would reduce the cost.

Any info/advice with regard to cost estimates would be greatly appreciated.

Also if anybody wants to recommend an installer in the southeast please feel free to PM me the contact details.

Regards
Tommy

About €800 is a far price. You wont get a reduction because the cables are there but if they where not you would be doubling the price of the alarm. All installer have to be PSA registered so look up there site to find a local installer.

tommycahir

Hi Guys

Thanks for the quick responses. Unfortunately I don't have a phoneline in the house so a standard PSTN dialer is out of the question but might look at an ATA converter and a blueface account as an option.

Thanks for the tip on the PSA DB, i will have a look at that tomorrow.

Regards
Tommy

Merch

koolkid wrote: »

That price is not too far off the mark. Maybe you could get it to €700-€800.
My recommendation would be a PSTN dialler insted of GSM . That would save you another €200 + call costs . I would not recommend GSM

Why would you not recommend a gsm dialer?

altor

tommycahir wrote: »

Hi Guys

Thanks for the quick responses. Unfortunately I don't have a phoneline in the house so a standard PSTN dialer is out of the question but might look at an ATA converter and a blueface account as an option.

Thanks for the tip on the PSA DB, i will have a look at that tomorrow.

Regards
Tommy

Your welcome,

If using any device to monitor your alarm make sure it has a back up power supply in case of mains failure.

KoolKid

Merch wrote: »

Why would you not recommend a gsm dialer?

Can't say much at the moment. You will have to trust me when I say they are not as reliable as they are made out to be..

fred funk }{

GSM diallers will be a thing of the past shortly. There are ways of easily disabling them externally. This a new revelation, and as Koolkid said don't waste your money on one. All monitoring company will soon cease using them and will go back to radio.

Merch

hmm ok, I was considering one, I've seen what looks like GSM dialler aerials in businesses, I'm assuming by go back to radio you mean they were used in the past? radio is just a different frequency to GSM, if by disabled, then can mobile phones be disabled also??

KoolKid

Merch wrote: »

hmm ok, I was considering one, I've seen what looks like GSM dialler aerials in businesses, I'm assuming by go back to radio you mean they were used in the past? radio is just a different frequency to GSM, if by disabled, then can mobile phones be disabled also??

Yes!

Merch

yes? to everything

KoolKid

Yes radio was used before. But whats coming is newer & better.
Yes mobile phones can be disabled.

fred funk }{

At the moment the people willing/capable of doing this are not likely to be breaking into your average home.

Ironically enough the good old standard phone line might be the more secure option for monitoring in the near future.

Merch

Hmm.maybe its still suitable for domestic users? that will bring gsm prices down, I dont think anyone willing to be breaking into my house would be going to that level, but I'd still like to have that kind of system, dont have a telephone line and GSM seems like it would be cheaper, A PTSN can be disabled by someone just cutting the line anyway? unless there is a way the system can detect this is happening.
If new radio frequency stuff is coming in then I imagine it wont be aimed at my price level (ie domestic customer) probably businesses.

altor

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Ironically enough the good old standard phone line might be the more secure option for monitoring in the near future.

Agreed, thats providing it is protected and not accessible to cut.

altor

Merch wrote: »

Hmm.maybe its still suitable for domestic users? that will bring gsm prices down, I dont think anyone willing to be breaking into my house would be going to that level, but I'd still like to have that kind of system, dont have a telephone line and GSM seems like it would be cheaper, A PTSN can be disabled by someone just cutting the line anyway? unless there is a way the system can detect this is happening.
If new radio frequency stuff is coming in then I imagine it wont be aimed at my price level (ie domestic customer) probably businesses.

That will be up to the end customer really, all the pros and cons will have to be explained.

fred funk }{

altor wrote: »

Agreed, thats providing it is protected and not accessible to cut.

Yes I agree also.

There are ways to hide the cables coming into buildings, much more difficult with older building as most lines are ran over-head.

Tricky times ahead. There will be a lot of people/businesses who have been sold a GSM unit on the basis of it being very secure, they wont be happy.

As of last week we are not installing GSM units in any high secure locations.

altor

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Yes I agree also.

There are ways to hide the cables coming into buildings, much more difficult with older building as most lines are ran over-head.

Tricky times ahead. There will be a lot of people/businesses who have been sold a GSM unit on the basis of it being very secure, they wont be happy.

As of last week we are not installing GSM units in any high secure locations.

New business yes but new houses no, they go to all the bother of running the cable under ground only to bring it to a box at the side of your house

Jnealon

GSM would be fine for a domestic install where the emphasis is on home automation and SMS.
This loop hole in GSM has been around for a long time and yet manufacturers are still pushing them. Leads me to believe that they do not test their products very well.
When I asked a particular manufacturer about the testing of their new panel the reply I got was " Yeah me and xxx have them in our house for the past month". Enough said.

KoolKid

Merch wrote: »

Hmm.maybe its still suitable for domestic users? that will bring gsm prices down, I dont think anyone willing to be breaking into my house would be going to that level, but I'd still like to have that kind of system, dont have a telephone line and GSM seems like it would be cheaper, A PTSN can be disabled by someone just cutting the line anyway? unless there is a way the system can detect this is happening.
If new radio frequency stuff is coming in then I imagine it wont be aimed at my price level (ie domestic customer) probably businesses.

Don't kid yourselves this equipment is going to be easily accessible and cheap. Houses will be a target.

altor

The equipment price should not be an issue if it is there to protect your property. At the end of the day as installers we can only advise customers whats there best option.

Merch

koolkid wrote: »

Don't kid yourselves this equipment is going to be easily accessible and cheap. Houses will be a target.

So if the equipment to do this is available and cheaply, then there is no point in having a gsm dialler, and as most homes seem to have the phone line accessible there is no point having a dialler from a standard phone line either.
It doesnt stop your alarm going off though? so you are as well off without one, there must be some defence against this for GSM diallers

altor wrote: »

The equipment price should not be an issue if it is there to protect your property. At the end of the day as installers we can only advise customers whats there best option.

No I guess the cost shouldn't be, but it depends on weighing the costs and how effective the equipment is compared to what losses you might suffer. If someone wants to get in they probably will. So this new radio equipment isn't likely to be any good to the domestic customer, if its new it will probably be expensive or aimed at businesses.

KoolKid

Merch wrote: »

So if the equipment to do this is available and cheaply, then there is no point in having a gsm dialler, and as most homes seem to have the phone line accessible there is no point having a dialler from a standard phone line either.
It doesnt stop your alarm going off though? so you are as well off without one, there must be some defence against this for GSM diallers

Not as of yet there isn't . I am advising radio as the most secure form of monitoring from now on.
Price wise the units will be dearer & so will annual charges. Depends how badly you want/need secure monitoring.

Merch wrote: »

No I guess the cost shouldn't be, but it depends on weighing the costs and how effective the equipment is compared to what losses you might suffer. If someone wants to get in they probably will. So this new radio equipment isn't likely to be any good to the domestic customer, if its new it will probably be expensive or aimed at businesses.

What losses you might suffer will always weigh more than the cost of any equipment IMO.
Like I said it will be more expensive than GSM but whether its worth it is up to the individual customer. There will be no self monitoring option so there will be the added benefit of Garda response on confirmed alarms.

altor

Merch wrote: »

So this new radio equipment isn't likely to be any good to the domestic customer, if its new it will probably be expensive or aimed at businesses.

Not necessarily, There are alot of houses monitored by GSM only who need to be made aware of the situation. I am sure many of them would have no problem staying with the GSM but then there are many of them who will be more than happy to change for the added security it will provide. As i said it is up to the customer to decide.

soSolid

Alright, now I'm really confused

I got a quote from PhoneWatch only about 15 mins ago for 1300 yoyos for covering the house, and 25/mth for monitoring (first year 18.75/month). This is for the GSM-based system, as we only have a VoIP phone and UPC broadband.

One concern I have is that where I live has cr@p cellular coverage - you have to stand on the piano with your left foot in the air on the second Tuesday of a month with P in it to get a signal, or go to road outside the house. How do they overcome this?

Also, in light of the comments above, am I mad to go with this option? How far off is this "new" technology? Is it next week or 12-18 months away? In other words, do you think I should hold off?

Also, I'd love the option of connecting the system to my LAN for web access/e-mail alerts etc.

What options do I have?

Any and all comments/suggestions gratefully received!

KoolKid

soSolid wrote: »

Alright, now I'm really confused

I got a quote from PhoneWatch only about 15 mins ago for 1300 yoyos for covering the house, and 25/mth for monitoring (first year 18.75/month). This is for the GSM-based system, as we only have a VoIP phone and UPC broadband.

One concern I have is that where I live has cr@p cellular coverage - you have to stand on the piano with your left foot in the air on the second Tuesday of a month with P in it to get a signal, or go to road outside the house. How do they overcome this?

The may use a higher gain aerial or an external aerial.

soSolid wrote: »

Also, in light of the comments above, am I mad to go with this option? How far off is this "new" technology? Is it next week or 12-18 months away? In other words, do you think I should hold off?

IMO yes you are. Also Eircom are being very irresponsible not to be informing you of any vunerability that they know of.
New radio system for our station is about 5-6 weeks away.

soSolid wrote: »

Also, I'd love the option of connecting the system to my LAN for web access/e-mail alerts etc.

What options do I have?

SigNet will do this at the moment , but it can not send alerts out. Monitoring over IP is being looked at. Could be 12 months or more away yet.

soSolid

Thanks koolkid!

One quick question about the new technology - if it's radio-based, does it not depend on high-power transmitters or a multitude of aerials around the country? Is it a radio link directly from my house to the monitoring station?

Jnealon

It's a mesh network rather that a point A to point B topology

KoolKid

soSolid wrote: »

Thanks koolkid!

One quick question about the new technology - if it's radio-based, does it not depend on high-power transmitters or a multitude of aerials around the country? Is it a radio link directly from my house to the monitoring station?

From Central Station to one main site & 10-12 repeaters . High power TX is not required.

Jnealon wrote: »

It's a mesh network rather that a point A to point B topology

Not the one we're going to be using. I don't like the mesh network. Its like a big zigby network. Fine in built up areas , but if your in an isolated area 1 or 2 people cancelling a service can affect many others.

soSolid

koolkid wrote: »

From Central Station to one main site & 10-12 repeaters . High power TX is not required.

I don't quite follow - do you mean that each alarm monitoring company will have to build their own network to monitor alarms, or will it be a shared network?

KoolKid

soSolid wrote: »

I don't quite follow - do you mean that each alarm monitoring company will have to build their own network to monitor alarms, or will it be a shared network?

Some have existing radio networks in place. So its more of an upgrade.
The one we will be using is a new network.

novice

koolkid wrote: »

Monitoring over IP is being looked at. Could be 12 months or more away yet.

What's the hold-up here? Surely all video monitoring is done this way at the moment?

altor

novice wrote: »

What's the hold-up here? Surely all video monitoring is done this way at the moment?

He was not talking about video monitoring :rolleyes:

Gerry1995

I came on here hoping to get information on Home alarm installation and costs. I'm considering DIY job in my Daughters apartment as the quotes for one bed first floor apartment two windows two door 800, GSM extra 300 seem nuts. So what I see here are guys from the industry defending their industry with scare tactics, bit like roof fixers and the elderly. Basically I thought for home alarms there are either wired or wireless, monitored or unmonitored. If monitored either by monitoring company (ripoff Eircom) or yourself. If monitored either PSTN line or GSM. Scare talk about GSM in a domistic situation, for me is just that, scare talk. Radio links etc another way for the industry to grab more money from frightened hard pressed home owners.
Apologies if I am over the top here but it is fustrating when all the companies seem to work together to make sure they all charge the same high prices.

altor

Gerry1995 wrote: »

I came on here hoping to get information on Home alarm installation and costs. I'm considering DIY job in my Daughters apartment as the quotes for one bed first floor apartment two windows two door 800, GSM extra 300 seem nuts. So what I see here are guys from the industry defending their industry with scare tactics, bit like roof fixers and the elderly. Basically I thought for home alarms there are either wired or wireless, monitored or unmonitored. If monitored either by monitoring company (ripoff Eircom) or yourself. If monitored either PSTN line or GSM. Scare talk about GSM in a domistic situation, for me is just that, scare talk. Radio links etc another way for the industry to grab more money from frightened hard pressed home owners.
Apologies if I am over the top here but it is fustrating when all the companies seem to work together to make sure they all charge the same high prices.

Hi Gerry1995,

For the install you describe €800 is a lot. More like €500 - €550. Shopping around is the best thing to do.
A GSM is expensive, the manufacture puts the price on this unit not the alarm companys.

With regard scare talk, You are just being made aware of the situation with regard the GSM, it is up to the customer if he/she wants a GSM installed but it is our obligation as installers to advise you of the situation.

All the installers on here give free advise with regard home security systems, saving a lot of people money.

fred funk }{

Gerry1995 wrote: »

I came on here hoping to get information on Home alarm installation and costs. I'm considering DIY job in my Daughters apartment as the quotes for one bed first floor apartment two windows two door 800, GSM extra 300 seem nuts. So what I see here are guys from the industry defending their industry with scare tactics, bit like roof fixers and the elderly. Basically I thought for home alarms there are either wired or wireless, monitored or unmonitored. If monitored either by monitoring company (ripoff Eircom) or yourself. If monitored either PSTN line or GSM. Scare talk about GSM in a domistic situation, for me is just that, scare talk. Radio links etc another way for the industry to grab more money from frightened hard pressed home owners.
Apologies if I am over the top here but it is fustrating when all the companies seem to work together to make sure they all charge the same high prices.

You obviously don't read this forum often. Installers in here give lots of helpful honest advice and often spend a lot of time trying to help people who wish to go the DIY route. The make up diagrams and post engineers manuals etc. Really go out of their way to help and it's one of the most helpful forums on the entire site.

800 is expensive an apartment alright but the GSM is a good price as they are an expensive unit. Like all quotations, you should get a detailed list of exactly what you're getting for your money so you can compare like with like.

So what I see here are guys from the industry defending their industry with scare tactics, bit like roof fixers and the elderly

Sorry but that's a ridiculous statement to make. We give advise based on our experiences from what we see day to day on the job. A lot of the time we are in peoples houses just after they've been burgled and see how entry has been gained so we recommend security solutions to combat that threat.