Rating races

Woddle

Hi guys after talking with the other mods I've decided to have a trial run of an idea. The idea is simply to find the quality races.
So I'm hoping to add a poll to each race but will see how it develops in this thread first.
The poll is just a way to rate your experience of the race, this will hopefully give good feedback to both the runner and organisers.
I would also hope to have a specific thread for each race and that there would be no more starting a thread for the same race next year, example Longford 2011 will be just posted in the Longford marathon race thread for this year.
Feedback is always welcome.

Trial run here:Longford marathon

xebec

Woddle wrote: »

Trial run here: Longford marathon

Fixed your link...

gerard65

I've most likely got the wrong end of the stick on this, BUT, what if a race is very good on one of the options but hopeless on another? ie a good PB potential but boring scenery. Should the options be seperate - 'VALUE' good, bad etc, 'ORGANISATION' good, bad, etc. Or rated from 1-5 for each catorgory?

robinph

Will be good to see how it works out.

Might want to have a new poll for each year though as the organisers make improvements or fix issues from a previous year. Also should maybe be a public poll so that you can see who actually voted each way, there will always be people who just like voting in polls regardless of if they actually took part or not so would make it easier to spot that "vandalism" if it happened.

meathcountysec

I think this is a good idea, however might it not be better to try it on a race sooner than the end of August? Maybe pick a thread of a recent race or one upcoming soon?

gerard65

robinph wrote: »

Also should maybe be a public poll so that you can see who actually voted each way, there will always be people who just like voting in polls regardless of if they actually took part or not so would make it easier to spot that "vandalism" if it happened.

Shut upppppppppp. I was hatching a plan to make money by selling my vote to unscrupulous race organisers:(

Woddle

gerard65 wrote: »

I've most likely got the wrong end of the stick on this, BUT, what if a race is very good on one of the options but hopeless on another? ie a good PB potential but boring scenery. Should the options be seperate - 'VALUE' good, bad etc, 'ORGANISATION' good, bad, etc. Or rated from 1-5 for each catorgory?

Theres 5 categories, Scenery, PB potential, Athmosphere, Value, Organisation, if it ticks all boxes its an excellent, if it only ticks 2 boxes its poor, but maybe only as a guideline, others may have other criteria in which they rate a race, open to suggestions though.

meathcountysec wrote: »

I think this is a good idea, however might it not be better to try it on a race sooner than the end of August? Maybe pick a thread of a recent race or one upcoming soon?

Yep good point, wasn't really thinking, will pick another one tomorrow. Maybe even one of your own if your willing?

meathcountysec

How about Cork City Marathon? Its thread has generated a good deal of traffic and it is on within the next couple of weeks.

Woddle

meathcountysec wrote: »

How about Cork City Marathon? Its thread has generated a good deal of traffic and it is on within the next couple of weeks.

Cheers for the great feedback everyone and I've made some changes based on your comments, I've put the poll into the following races.

Lucan 5k http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055910473
Cork http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055815477

Husavik

I think this is an excellent idea but I agree with Gerard65. Keep the format proposed but allow a vote on each feature. And Robinph - make it public.

robinph

The voting on each feature isn't actualy possible to do with the vBulletin polls system. It's one poll per thread and that is all that can be done.

BeepBeep67

robinph wrote: »

The voting on each feature isn't actualy possible to do with the vBulletin polls system. It's one poll per thread and that is all that can be done.

Unless you want to use survey monkey to capture more info - allows up to 10 questions free on the trial version.

DustyBin

Not sure if you saw this before or not but something suggested in the Ugly Sisters Thread that Condo started a while back:

Original here

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

How about using a table instead of a poll?
Each boardsie who competed in the event could quote and update the table similar to how both the 1000 mile and swim/cycle/run threads currently operate. After a defined cut off point someone could copy & paste the table into excel to quickly work out averages. Maybe someone like robinph could figure out how to add an average field to the bottom of the table within the boards table? (not sure if possible or not)

Might look something like:

Connemara Half
Name|Overall score|Would you do it again|Scenery|PB potential|Atmosphere|Organisation|Value|Beginner-friendliness
DustyBin|9|9|9|9|9|9|9|9
Woddle|8|8|9|9|8|7|8|9


My comments on the above event are blah,blah,blah




Would that work?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


That was what I posted up originally, robinph since clarified:

I don't think it will be possible to do an averaging calculation on the numbers using BBCode, but just having the numbers in a table like that makes it relatively simple to figure out or, just add to the thread after a cut-off and the thread gets locked for that event.

Maybe you might think it's a bit of work maintaining it, but it does give the freedom to individually rate different aspects of the same race, whilst still keeping the whole thing within boards and not directing people off to survey monkey or some other website.
Giving one overall rating for a race is a bit meaningless in some respects, because maybe person A primarily wants value for money, person B is only interested in a PB, whilst someone could be looking for a scenic canter. Just an idea.

tunney

Woddle wrote: »

Hi guys after talking with the other mods I've decided to have a trial run of an idea. The idea is simply to find the quality races.
So I'm hoping to add a poll to each race but will see how it develops in this thread first.
The poll is just a way to rate your experience of the race, this will hopefully give good feedback to both the runner and organisers.
I would also hope to have a specific thread for each race and that there would be no more starting a thread for the same race next year, example Longford 2011 will be just posted in the Longford marathon race thread for this year.
Feedback is always welcome.

Trial run here:Longford marathon

What about the impact the athletics version of "freds" will have on the results?

The person who has got from fattie to not-so-fattie and the joy of completing an X,Y or Z completely overwhelms them and they don't care about the lack of safety, fairness, value for money etc etc?

RayCun

You would expect each race to have roughly the equivalent of new runners to other runners (of the runners posting on boards,at least). So it should all come out in the wash.

But one advantage of doing tables, as suggested by DustyBin, is that you can look down it and see "oh, this runner thought it was good, and she knows what she's talking about... and that guy marked it down, but then he's a grouchy bastard..."

tunney

Other problem with it is is that some race organisers are not only crap at race organising that but also taking constructive criticism.

Macanri

Maybe another field for the table would be for course measurement accuracy, ie was the advertised 10km actually 10k, or was it 9.4km!

TheRoadRunner

Hey Woddle et al. I think this is an absolutely brilliant idea. It's like tripadvisor or the like.

One thing, could I score a race based on previous experiences. For example I won't be running the Lucan 5k this year but have done so in the past and love it. I last ran it 3-4 years ago. Could I score it based on this run or are we assuming the scores are for the most recent runnings?

Woddle

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Hey Woddle et al. I think this is an absolutely brilliant idea. It's like tripadvisor or the like.

One thing, could I score a race based on previous experiences. For example I won't be running the Lucan 5k this year but have done so in the past and love it. I last ran it 3-4 years ago. Could I score it based on this run or are we assuming the scores are for the most recent runnings?

Good question and I'm not too sure. Example if last years race was crap and you wanted to vote 1 star, the organisers have not been given the chance for this years race to address the problems from last year.
I'd be more inclined to vote from this years race experience but again there are alot of established excellent races such as the Raheny 5 mile or MSB 5k which could be voted on from years gone by.
In short, I dunno

shels4ever

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Hey Woddle et al. I think this is an absolutely brilliant idea. It's like tripadvisor or the like.

One thing, could I score a race based on previous experiences. For example I won't be running the Lucan 5k this year but have done so in the past and love it. I last ran it 3-4 years ago. Could I score it based on this run or are we assuming the scores are for the most recent runnings?

Q the rush to register www.raceadvisor.ie/com/net/org

kit3

tunney wrote: »

What about the impact the athletics version of "freds" will have on the results?

The person who has got from fattie to not-so-fattie and the joy of completing an X,Y or Z completely overwhelms them and they don't care about the lack of safety, fairness, value for money etc etc?

A lot of assumptions here. A bit disappointing to be honest to see such a comment in an otherwise welcoming and non-elitist forum. Not all people new to running have gone from 'fattie to not-so-fattie'. They may also surprise you and have a brain and the common sense to see the other aspects of the races which you mention.

TheRoadRunner

kit3 wrote: »

A lot of assumptions here. A bit disappointing to be honest to see such a comment in an otherwise welcoming and non-elitist forum. Not all people new to running have gone from 'fattie to not-so-fattie'. They may also surprise you and have a brain and the common sense to see the other aspects of the races which you mention.

Might have come across as a bit snotty but I understand the point Tunney is making. My expectations of a race are completely different to when I first took up road running. Talking to some of my friends who are new to running, they have high praise for events that were in all reality pretty crap. I think if a little race report is given with each vote people will learn who has similar tastes as themselves.

kit3

I can see the difference - just didn't like the way it was put. Looking forward to seeing the ratings and the opinions of all !

TheRoadRunner

Woddle, I don't know if it is possible or worth the effort but could a link to GPS data for each race be placed directly under the poll for each race so it would appear as the first post in a thread. Just a thought

Woddle

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Woddle, I don't know if it is possible or worth the effort but could a link to GPS data for each race be placed directly under the poll for each race so it would appear as the first post in a thread. Just a thought

Could be an excellent idea

Condo131

I'm somewhat surprised at the criteria listed in the Race Rating polls:

Scenery: I've been running, and racing, for 27 years. I don't think I've ever done any particular race because of the scenery. A few years ago, after my second leg of the Wicklow Way Relay, I asked "Did everyone see the lovely waterfall at the other side of the valley?" Universal response: "You weren't running fast enough!"
PB potential: Fair enough, but probably better phrased as severity of course
Athmosphere: ??? You get a 'buzz' around some races, but once the gun goes .............
Value: very subjective. At the moment, in Cork we have quite a few complaining about race prices going up to €10, while others are willing to pay a lot of money to enter (imho) poor value, high fee races. The market will soon decide on this. As Frank Greally suggested, in the Irish Runner, sooner or later one of the 'for profit' races is going to cancel, with any entry fees paid unlikely to be refunded.
Organisation: Could be broken down into several aspects: safety, stewarding, instructions, facilities etc.

For what it's worth, this is the list of principal criteria I've come up with (not in order of preference):
1: Measurement - Accurate course - still a lot of courses being measured by 4 wheels.
2: Mile marks - a few courses still going without marks or at locations where someone thinks they used to be.
3: Prize List: Tied into value. Most of the high priced races offer very limited prize list, sometimes just 1st man & woman!
4: Timing - Decent timing (facilities AND people) available.
5: Results - Full results should be available. many of the high price races have little more than name and time = stone age results. Minimum, for ANY race, should include sex, category and either club or town/district.
6: Adequate and experienced stewarding - some stewards just stand there, watching people going in the wrong direction, etc
7: Safety - a key one linked to stewarding - safe course, medical facilities on hand, decent stewarding at junctions and other key locations.
8: Course safety: Traffic free or limited, controlled traffic.

There are plenty of others, but for me, these are the main ones. I have 15 more on my list, but many of those might apply to higher price races, rather than low, e.g. you might expect a goody bag for a high price race, but not for a local, €5 to enter, fun run.

Imho, Scenery and Atmosphere are hardly key factors in rating races. True they're nice to have, but they're way down the list. Value and Organisation are covered in my list and we could add course severity (PB potential).

Before anyone starts debating - use both my suggestions AND the existing Poll ones and compare. For some races teh results will be similar, but, I reckon, for most, there will be a big difference.

Opinions?

Woddle

Hi Condo you make some very good points but sadly in the poll question, you can only fit in a certain amount of characters, so I used the runners world model, it's also only a guideline, people can rate it to their own criteria if they wish. Sadly the poll system that boards uses doesn't give us alot to work with but I actually like what I've done with it and I'm sure it will help.

Woddle

Condo131 wrote: »

Before anyone starts debating - use both my suggestions AND the existing Poll ones and compare. For some races teh results will be similar, but, I reckon, for most, there will be a big difference.

Opinions?

Feel free to start a thread for a race yet to feature and use your suggestions, I have a feeling you won't be able to make it work but if you can I would certainly be up for it.
Also from a few threads of late on boards it's very clear your not going to please everyone and sometimes it's best to keep things simple.

TheRoadRunner

Good points made by Condo but I think most people will have their own criteria and won't necessarily stick to those suggested. As you say you have many additional criteria points on your list and no list will be exhaustive.

About 10 years ago a friend and myself started doing a lot of races, our main criteria was the t-shirt and goody bag, no joke. Nowadays I couldn't give a flying $hite about these. I think if the majority of people write a few lines describing what they liked or didn't like about the race it will become clear what their individual criteria were.

Condo131

Hi Woddle, I know what you mean. The best setup for rating is a matrix system - not suited for a poll.

An idea a few of us here have talked about is to have a few people 'independently' rate races. Effectively a panel of experienced neutral (that's me out anyway! :rolleyes: ) judges would rate races. For now, just a vague idea being bounced around.

robinph

Just dawned on me, but shouldn't the polls be for races in the past, not ones in the future that are yet to happen?

Woddle

robinph wrote: »

Just dawned on me, but shouldn't the polls be for races in the past, not ones in the future that are yet to happen?

A bit of faith in people not to be voting on first time races but I think it will be easier for me to maintain if I just add the poll at the same time as somebody starts a thread regarding said race.

I would just like to say its a work in progress, so lets just see how it goes first.

donothoponpop

This is the first time I've had a look over here, fantastic job Woddle. It's an oasis of calm talk about running. Fancy swapping jobs?:D

robinph

I demand that the poll results be displayed in red stars, otherwise I might get really upset and vote Atari Jaguar in the next one in protest. :mad: