Should Ireland have a full-time Sevens Team?

thomond2006

I've been watching the London Sevens and seen some great rugby. IMO it's disappointing that a lot of talented Irish youngsters are missing out on occasions like this.

Scotland have smaller playing numbers than us and yet they have a full time Sevens team. Youngsters like Alex Blair (the third Blair brother) are getting a great chance to develop their skills.

It's probably a question of money but I think the idea of having a fulltime team should be explored. It may benefit players better than playing AIL week in, week out. At present, we are the only "serious" rugby nation that doesn't run a Sevens side.

Thoughts?

Risteard

No opinion.

Scotland do only have 2 teams to support though. The money that would be used for a sevens team, I'd much rather be put into Connacht/academies of provinces.

I don't like 7s anyway.

irishbucsfan

No, it's not worth the money.

Risteard wrote: »

Scotland do only have 2 teams to support though. The money that would be used for a sevens team, I'd much rather be put into Connacht/academies of provinces.

I'd agree with that. But I would certainly be interested if a full-time 7s team was a possibility.

freyners

No, it's not worth the money.

would love to see it, think sevens is a class game but if it cuts back on funding for provinces, especially connacht then no

Risteard

No opinion.

I don't know about it developing players. Sure, some players would come through, but 7s is completely different to 'proper' rugby. Otherwise Fiji would probably be one of the best teams in the world and Kenya would up high enough.

A lot more space for players to run around in that they would have no hope of getting in a 15s match.

CatFromHue

i think the sevens tournaments is about 10 weekends starting at the start of december and going til the end of may.

you have to ask where the players will come from?

as in should they be picked from full provincial squads, academys, or from ail club teams.

the full provincial squads and ail teams wont be too keen on having their players away at times during these months, especially next season with extra games in the magners league to account for.

i do think it would be great for club players to be given a shot but then these guys would be semi pro and may have other commitments too.

it would be nice to have a sevens team but there is a reason we dont have one now.

also im not too sure of the player development issue in sevens. it is a different game and when people say look at players like christian cullen who played sevens, i think if christian cullen had played ping pong instead he would still have been a great player.

when you contrast him with say ben gollings or serevi both very accomplised sevens players neither were great at 15's.

Ciaran-Irl

No, it's not worth the money.

I would be massively in favour of a sevens side, especially with the chance of an Olympic medal. I'd definitely be up for going to London for this weekend next year if we were in it.

Each province could nominate 5 or 6 players to compete. Young lads like Zebo or Conway or Tiernan O'H would be excellent back three players. Young, athletic forwards like the Ruddock brothers would be excellent. It's also a good environment for improving Scrum halves, which isn't our strongest position of depth.

wonton

No, it's not worth the money.

it would give fionn carr something to do anyway.

Stev_o

No, it's not worth the money.

7's is the perfect development tool for the modern game and we are the only major union to have our head in the sand shouting blue murder how we shouldnt get involved. A guy like Andrew Conway would learn so much from a year on the circuit then he will getting 3 matches in a mix match Leinster team. It ll make our under age teams stronger has you can tell guys like TOH, Griffen that other winger (who's name eludes me but scored a brace a tries), Butler and Ryan to go off and improve their game (Running, tackling, POACHING!, passing supporting, vision, game management and so on)on the circuit.

We ll suffer in the long run as other Unions are able to blood a greater percentage of players into pro rugby at a very high standard compared to us.

tolosenc

No, it's not worth the money.

The guys who are just out of the various academis, but not making the bench regularly at provincial level should be put into a sevens side to earn their stripes.

danthefan

Toulousain wrote: »

The guys who are just out of the various academis, but not making the bench regularly at provincial level should be put into a sevens side to earn their stripes.

That wouldn't help our situation in the tight 5.

7's is the perfect development tool for the modern game

No it isn't. It doesn't contain nearly all the elements that make up rugby, for example, say, the set piece.

tolosenc

No, it's not worth the money.

But we have an oversupply of 7s-suitable players at the moment that I'd prefer were kept in Ireland.

davyjose

No, it's not worth the money.

We're fortunate that we have a world class backline right now, and so the need for sevens seems redundant. At some point in the (probably near) future, we'll have an average backline, and we'll be screaming bloody murder about "why we don't have a Sevens team????"

I can see the boards thread now!

[Jackass]

No, it's not worth the money.

I'd love to see this and don't think it would be massively expensive to fund.

Young talent is managed quite poorly in this country as a whole, but a 7's side used for academy stars and emerging talent to experience big day rugby and increase agility and pace and ability to beat people and draft them in and out of 15's rugby at will, then I'd be all for it!!

pappyodaniel

No, it's not worth the money.

The excuse doing the rounds for ages now is "if you want a 7s team, the IRFU will have to drop funding for Connacht"

Why does it have to be either/or?

toomevara

No, it's not worth the money.

If Argentina can do it, Kenya, the US, why cant we? Think we should embrace the game of 7's, why not try and have a round at Lansdowne? Been to the Middlesex 7's a few times and its a great day out, some really spectacular rugby, loads of games, some amazing talent on show...what's not to love? Really is quite bizarre and insular of us as a major rugby nation not to get involved.

JustinDee

No, it's not worth the money.

pappyodaniel wrote: »

The excuse doing the rounds for ages now is "if you want a 7s team, the IRFU will have to drop funding for Connacht"

Where is this excuse doing the rounds? No-one has said any such thing.

freyners

No, it's not worth the money.

JustinDee wrote: »

Where is this excuse doing the rounds? No-one has said any such thing.

in fairness, it hasnt been brought up here yet, but it has done rounds in other threads

JustinDee

No, it's not worth the money.

freyners wrote: »

in fairness, it hasnt been brought up here yet, but it has done rounds in other threads

No worries.
Its just complete and utter tosh thats all.

toomevara

No, it's not worth the money.

JustinDee wrote: »

No worries.
Its just complete and utter tosh thats all.

Just as a matter of interest Justin, and I don't know why you'd know this, but what is, if any, the IRFU position on sevens? Is our non-participation or otherwise reviewed as a matter of course, is it a concrete policy position?

freyners

No, it's not worth the money.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/16065_16068.php?includeref=dynamic&filter=yes&searchinit=&searchteam=&searchname=&searchyear=&searchdecade=&layout=&order=position

the only thing i can find on the irfu site is a squad of players that is the sevens team apparently, however it looks very out of date as earls is included in it

JustinDee

No, it's not worth the money.

toomevara wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest Justin, and I don't know why you'd know this, but what is, if any, the IRFU position on sevens? Is our non-participation or otherwise reviewed as a matter of course, is it a concrete policy position?

As I'm not a spokesperson, I can't answer on whats being done about Sevens until its officially announced, I'm afraid mate.

spank_inferno

Just wondering if anyone else found the coverage very enjoyable?

Has anyone here been to one of these 7's tournaments?
It looked like it was great fun on TV, a real day out and some of the rugby
was very entertaining. (USA vs Canada for example)

Now that we have Landsdowne back I wonder what chance of having a round of this series on Dublin?

also, I do think we need to at least attempt 7s rugby in Ireland, with a view to the Olympics.

toomevara

No, it's not worth the money.

JustinDee wrote: »

As I'm not a spokesperson, I can't answer on whats being done about Sevens until its officially announced, I'm afraid mate.

Appreciate that Justin, just thought you might be the "go-to-guy"...;)

toomevara

No, it's not worth the money.

spank_inferno wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone else found the coverage very enjoyable?

Has anyone here been to one of these 7's tournaments?

Been to the Middlesex sevens a good few times while I was living in Blighty. Great atmosphere, a whole day's rugby..lots of different teams/ fans mingling,lots of the games great players in one location, lots of invitation teams as well and all for charity. Basically you meet loads of folks from all parts of the rugby firmament, every rugby playing nation, just great all round fun and you do see some really, really spectacular rugby..its win-win. I'm definitely going to try and get down there this summer work permitting.

Ciaran-Irl

No, it's not worth the money.

Thought development is only a part of it, and while we have a world class backline, a 7s team might make it even better.

It also goes a long way to giving scrum halves top level experience in passing and setting up plays. The three 'forward' type roles have to be fantastic athletes, so it can help make sure we end up with more Cronin type forwards than Jackman type forwards.

However, the primary reason I'd love to see a sevens team is that it's a great sport. Great family day out type entertainment in the London setting, and Hong Kong sevens is supposedly the best weekend away on earth.

It would be great to compete for a medal, and if we had a team, it would be fantastic to pitch for a place on the circuit.

The Rooster

No, it's not worth the money.

Surely, we'll send a team to the London Olympics anyway, and if we do, we should send a team that could win it (or is their restrictions?).

I think its usually back row forwards that take up the backs positions. A team like:

Ferris-Wallace
Heaslip
O'Leary - Sexton
Earls - Fitzgerald

would take a bit of beating! (of course DW will be gone by 2012).

Ciaran-Irl

No, it's not worth the money.

From what little I know, you need two back row forwards and a 'hooker' that is nothing like a hooker as we know it, more like another back row forward. At least one of these three needs to be excellent at claiming restarts.

Then a scrum half, a centre come outhalf come mid-fielder, then you need two winger types. Everyone needs boatloads of pace and stamina, so usually players are younger.

Number 8's like Pierre Spies seem the perfect fit for the forwards. Whoever they are, they need to be quick. Maybe a Donncha Ryan / Chris Henry / Jamie Heaslip type combo would work. Perhaps A scrum half like Tomás O Leary with lots of pace would be a good fit. The midfielder has zero tactical kicking to do, so the likes of ROG are anti sevens in skill set. More likely that a Fitzgerald type would be better in this role to me.

On the wings, you want shed loads of speed. Probably less bulked out than a typical winger, so an Andrew Conway or a Tiernan O'Halloran seem perfect to me.

Not that any professional player like Tomás O Leary / Heaslip / whoever would make the squad. It would be a development thing for young players. Just thinking about player types.

Not that I'm very clued in on all this sevens malarky.

pappyodaniel

No, it's not worth the money.

JustinDee wrote: »

Where is this excuse doing the rounds? No-one has said any such thing.

It's being doing the rounds for years, maybe not on internet land but I remember bringing it up with a few of the old farts in my local rugby club and that was the excuse given to me. Another time down at the Kinsale 7s I was chatting over a pint with one of the organisers and he said something along the same lines, 'you want an Ireland 7s team? well the irfu stance is it will be at the expense of Connacht'

I think it's BS myself, but don't shoot the messenger.

castie

No, it's not worth the money.

I didnt realise James Coughlan was in the 7's squad for 2 seasons. 07-09
Earls was in the squad 07-08 and glesson 08-09.

Not sure if they played any games but some very handy players on those teams.

d'Oracle

No, it's not worth the money.

Too long has the awesomeness of the 7 man game been neglected by Ireland.

durkadurka

No opinion.

I reckon we've missed the boat on this, so either put some proper money in and get some fijian coaches in, or don't bother at all.
And i wouldn't do it at the expense of connacht either.

I watched the sevens over the weekend and it was enjoyable but these guys were seriously good at it, and i don't think we'd have any chance of a medal at the olympics.

Still i suppose it would be a shame for ireland not to be represented there.

My ireland 7s dream team would be heaslip, leamy(fit), cronin, boss, earls, bod from 5 years ago and carr.

Profiler

No opinion.

Much as I like the 7's version of the game it is a luxury item as far as Irish Rugby is concerned.

It is quite righly (imo) a long way down the priority list.

Nice in an ideal world but Irish rugby is not in an ideal world so -

No. Irish Rugby should not have a full time seven's team.

Trojan

No, it's not worth the money.

I think it's crazy we don't participate when you look at the other unions with far lower funding than Ireland being able to have a 7s team.

It's definitely a feeder and encouraging the 7s game across the country would be fantastic - a great summer alternative to the ridiculous sport of tag (IMO ).

We could also host a 7's in Lansdowne or better, Croker (unlikely to happen I'll admit)

Profiler

No opinion.

It seems to me that this idea that 7's prepares players for top level 15's is a bit of a myth.

With the exception of Jonah Lomu who first came to prominence in the 1994 Hong Kong sevens I'm struggling to name another player who made it at the highest level as a consequence of 7's.

As for the suggestion that Tag Rugby as a feeder! Come off it, to slag that off is just ridiculous. Tag was started to get wee kids into Rugby, it wasn't designed for adults and the fact that it has become so popular is a very nice if totally unexpected side effect.

Trojan

No, it's not worth the money.

Profiler wrote: »

It seems to me that this idea that 7's prepares players for top level 15's is a bit of a myth.

That's a bit like saying "the idea that College Football (US) prepares players for top level NFL is a myth".

Of course it's a myth. Different rules, different types of players, different audiences.

But 7s spreads the word. It makes the general concept of "rugby" available to more players and spectators, without reducing it to the broken-finger-fest that tag rugby is. Look at the crowd at any of the 7s tourney's - there's a lot of folks there you wouldn't expect to see watching 15s. If it creates more interest in the game, then it is A Good Thing.

If as a side product, it happens to produce an exceptional 15s player once in a blue moon, then that's super. Or develop the handling or footwork of a talented but overlooked provincial player. Or bring a group of friends into the sport, one of who's 4th cousins granddads cat's babysitter's brothers is a 21 stone bricklayer who's always thought about playing prop.

It's not about preparing players directly for 15s - it's about developing the game.

andyman

No, it's not worth the money.

I was at the All Ireland Student Sevens a few weeks back. Outstanding, but what disappointed me was the fact that there was one, maybe two teams that were obviously prepared properly for it - DCU and UUJ.

Max Rantz-McDonald organised it. Brilliant job, carnival atmosphere but some of the teams were so poor it was beyond a joke and just sums up Irelands attitude to 7's. DCU had trained all year for this whilst having 3 teams getting to the All-Ireland Semi's in their respective divisions in 15s and had players playing week-in, week-out for their clubs like Hugo Nolan and Dave Mongan. On the other side, some of the teams started training the week before the tournament.

7's is a great advertisement for the game and Max Rantz-McDonald's aim of the Student Sevens is to get the game out there. There were people who I knew didn't like rugby and they loved the Student Sevens.

I fail to see where the IRFU would go wrong by investing in 7's. Hell, with MR-McD having serious connections with Red Bull, he'd work his socks off to get them to sponsor the team. It's not like the investment wouldn't pay off, either.

Pride Fighter

No, it's not worth the money.

We should have a full time sevens team. Would also be great to see BOD bring home the gold in 2012 and for him to retire a world, 6 nations and olympic champion.

I can dream anyway

pappyodaniel

No, it's not worth the money.

Profiler wrote: »

With the exception of Jonah Lomu who first came to prominence in the 1994 Hong Kong sevens I'm struggling to name another player who made it at the highest level as a consequence of 7's.

Danny Care first came to prominence in the 7s game about 5years ago and has only recently broke into the England XV.

If Jamaica can have a bobsleigh team why can't we have a sevens?

Podge_irl

Pride Fighter wrote: »

We should have a full time sevens team. Would also be great to see BOD bring home the gold in 2012 and for him to retire a world, 6 nations and olympic champion.

I can dream anyway

Except that 7s isn't in the Olympics til 2016! Methinks even the great one will beyond playing rugby at that stage.


7s is good fun to watch, but I don't particularly consider it "rugby" in the truest sense of the word. It's clearly far easier to watch and play though which is important for spreading the idea of rugby more globally.

Surely, we'll send a team to the London Olympics anyway

Personally I'd be surprised if we qualified. It depends on how the whole thing is done.

Luckycharm

No opinion.

It would be nice if we had a 7's team, not sure we have the resources and playing numbers to put out a team for the full 7's circuit. Wales for example choose to have 7's team instead of an A team- their 7's team are currently World champs but reckon their first 15 team has struggled as they cannot test players out at A level.
It would take a while to get our 7's team up to scratch as well - teams like Portugal would be far ahead of. It is also interesting that some countries who would be know for having exciting backlines are not great at 7's and vice versa. France are quite poor at 7's, Australia who you would think would be good won their first tourney in 8 years last w/end. England are really good at 7's but as we know their back play is very average.
7's rugby and 15 a side are also completely different and very few have made the transition over. Serevi probally the greatest ever 7's player struggled and was let go at Leicester.
Ben Gollings I think is the highest ever points scorer in 7's but never establish himself as a starter in a GP - amor is another.
I reckon now that it is an olympic sport we will be putting out a 7's team in a couple of years but it will take a while to be competive.

thebaz

No, it's not worth the money.

i think Ireland should have a 7s team - I'm not a fan of the game personally and am baffled by its popularity , and how it became an Olympic game ahead of the real thing - not sure we have the electric pace wingers needed - though i'd say luke Fitz would be a good OH or centre