[Heritage] Demolition of Victorian railway station at Carlilse pier ruled illegal

Run_to_da_hills

Dunlaoghaire Harbour Company may have to reinstate a Victorian railway station on Carlisle Pier following a ruling by An Bord Pleanála that its demolition last autumn required planning permission.

To most of us the Carlilse pier was an ugly grey monstrosity that looked as if it was falling apart but beneath the decaying 1960's facade was a historic Victorian Railway station built in 1859.

I hope this railway station is rebuilt to its former glory as this was another "fast one" pulled on the people of Dunlaoghaire just like the demolishment of the former court house up the town.

As it was prior to the 1960's



Amazing wroth iron structure. Stena site History and more photos.



Post 1960.

Ugly 1960's cladding that covered this magnificant building for almost half a century.





As it is now.



http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0522/1224270894714.html

Judgement Day

Run_to_da_hills - read that article too and my immediate thought was Drogheda Grammar School - remember the one illegally pulled down by a developer in the 1970s. He was forced to build an exact replica see here: http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?p=20188

I wonder could the same happen in Dun Laoghaire - I doubt it with Gormless at the helm.

Sorry what was rebuilt wasn't an exact replica but a half arsed stab at something vaguely similar!

Run_to_da_hills

Judgement Day wrote: »

Run_to_da_hills - read that article too and my immediate thought was Drogheda Grammar School - remember the one illegally pulled down by a developer in the 1970s. He was forced to build an exact replica see here: http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?p=20188

I wonder could the same happen in Dun Laoghaire - I doubt it with Gormless at the helm.

Sorry what was rebuilt wasn't an exact replica but a half arsed stab at something vaguely similar!

Same happened on Pearse St, an Art Deco service station was rebuilt in the same manner.

Knowing this case they had all the cast iron scrapped before the ink dried on the plans. Walter Macfarlane & Co in Scotland would be able to recreate the original Ironwork of this structure.

Cookie_Monster

so instead of something useful being done with the pier they are forced to waste hundred of thousands putting back in an old shed which will be nothing but a cheap modern copy with no relation to the original

Carlisle Pier railway station as the focal point for public benefit and recreational activity in the harbour area

how?


And it says the can apply for retroactive permission to demolish which is the likely outcome I would reckon

Run_to_da_hills

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so instead of something useful being done with the pier they are forced to waste hundred of thousands putting back in an old shed which will be nothing but a cheap modern copy with no relation to the original



how?


And it says the can apply for retroactive permission to demolish which is the likely outcome I would reckon

Something useful like a static railway museum that people can enjoy rather than some hideous fatcat development.

trellheim

Same happened on Pearse St, an Art Deco service station was rebuilt in the same manner.

It was Sandwith Street, where KBC/ IIB HQ now are.

Run_to_da_hills

trellheim wrote: »

It was Sandwith Street, where KBC/ IIB HQ now are.

L1011

Archers Garage was rebuilt VERY poorly. Looks like a bad copy rather than a rebuild.

Cookie_Monster

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Something useful like a static railway museum that people can enjoy rather than some hideous fatcat development.

It'll still be owned by the harbour company, I don't see them having any interest in railways. As it is in effect a shed maybe they can just use it to store stuff. At least that way it would get some use.

L1011

Actually, what are they going to be made rebuild - just the station or the entire terminal?

Run_to_da_hills

MYOB wrote: »

Actually, what are they going to be made rebuild - just the station or the entire terminal?

The entire terminal, just to spite them

si_guru

It is nice to see art deco saved... in Derby (UK)... they knocked down an amazing bus station just last year - depsite 1000s and 1000s of complaints.

Typewriter

Archers Garage before...

Cookie_Monster

si_guru wrote: »

It is nice to see art deco saved... in Derby (UK)... they knocked down an amazing bus station just last year - depsite 1000s and 1000s of complaints.

too right, what an eyesore

Run_to_da_hills

green_jesus wrote: »

Archers Garage before...

Speaking of destroyed art Deco, can anyone remember this one?

Clue, 7A 8 Bus route.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so instead of something useful being done with the pier they are forced to waste hundred of thousands putting back in an old shed which will be nothing but a cheap modern copy with no relation to the original



how?


And it says the can apply for retroactive permission to demolish which is the likely outcome I would reckon

Maybe the cheap 1960's cladding gave you the illusion that it was a cheap shed but underneath all that was the Victorian cast iron framework which can be clearly seen when it was vandalised.

Could you imagine if the harbour board attacked the Bandstand with a Hymac? same difference same Victorian era.

DWCommuter

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Speaking of destroyed art Deco, can anyone remember this one?

Clue, 7A 8 Bus route.







Maybe the cheap 1960's cladding gave you the illusion that it was a cheap shed but underneath all that was the Victorian cast iron framework. This can be seen when it was vandalised.

Could you imagine if the harbour board attacked the Bandstand with a Hymac? same difference same era.

I agree completely. Had the original trainshed been left, then people would re-evaluate their opinions on it. Even leaving it in place would not have affected development plans. Only arseholes are responsible for this.

Judgement Day

It was such an anachronism anyway - the idea that the train could pull right in beside the boat. Anyone remember the beautiful Art Deco interior of Amiens Street station, inside the main entrance at the top of the ramp, also swept away without a whimper from anybody. When it comes to demolition CIE are right up there with the best of them.

steamengine

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Speaking of destroyed art Deco, can anyone remember this one?





Could you imagine if the harbour board attacked the Bandstand with a Hymac? same difference same Victorian era.

I think that IMCO -a dry cleaning outfit - was situated on the sea side of the road at Booterstown, not far from the Merrion gates level crossing.

Lucky for the bandstand it didn't have a railway track running across the base of it ???

DWCommuter

Just let my "half cut and going home soon Dad":D look at Run to the hills photo and he says a laundry on Merrion Road.

steamengine

DWCommuter wrote: »

Just let my "half cut and going home soon Dad":D look at Run to the hills photo and he says a laundry on Merrion Road.

Come, Come DW - I'm not infallible like some on boards, ready to be proven wrong but, from memory, that was IMCO headquarters !!!

Run_to_da_hills

steamengine wrote: »

I think that IMCO -a dry cleaning outfit - was situated on the sea side of the road at Booterstown, not far from the Merrion gates level crossing.

Lucky for the bandstand it didn't have a railway track running across the base of it ???

Yup, you could get a view of the rear of the factory from the train just before Merrion Gates northbound, unfortunitally it was sold in 1974 and was demolished shortly afterwards.

Their logo was equally impressive.

Amalgam

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Amazing wroth iron structure. Stena site History and more photos.

Here's the website address removed from the Google URL Run_to_da_hills linked to:

http://www.sealink-holyhead.com/ports/dun_laoghaire/carlisle_pier/home.html

Ugh.. this makes me look hideously old, but I was 'on a train, on a boat', in Dun Laoghaire, when I was very young. I have vague recollections of it. I'll ask my parents about UK family holidays.

steamengine

Judgement Day wrote: »

It was such an anachronism anyway - the idea that the train could pull right in beside the boat. Anyone remember the beautiful Art Deco interior of Amiens Street station, inside the main entrance at the top of the ramp, also swept away without a whimper from anybody. When it comes to demolition CIE are right up there with the best of them.

There was also a wonderful example of hydraulic 'telescopic' type buffers adjacent to the 'UP' platform at Amiens St. My late father who worked for the GNR remembered them been given a good whack one day by a train that left final braking a bit late.

steamengine

Amalgam wrote: »

Here's the website address removed from the Google URL Run_to_da_hills linked to:

http://www.sealink-holyhead.com/ports/dun_laoghaire/carlisle_pier/home.html

Ugh.. this makes me look hideously old, but I was 'on a train, on a boat', in Dun Laoghaire, when I was very young. I have vague recollections of it. I'll ask my parents about UK family holidays.

You're not alone there, 1960 or thereabouts I remember catching the boat train which left from its own dedicated platform at Westland Row. On reaching Kingstown (added nostalgic term) it veered left through a tunnel and entered the station on Carlisle pier !!! And might I add it was a steam train too !!!

DWCommuter

steamengine wrote: »

Come, Come DW - I'm not infallible like some on boards, ready to be proven wrong but, from memory, that was IMCO headquarters !!!

Sorry, but what are you on about?

Cookie_Monster

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Maybe the cheap 1960's cladding gave you the illusion that it was a cheap shed but underneath all that was the Victorian cast iron framework which can be clearly seen when it was vandalised.

so it was a Victorian shed...

Actually the original structure didn't even have walls :eek:

Run_to_da_hills

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so it was a Victorian shed...

Actually the original structure didn't even have walls :eek:

Neither did the band stand.

steamengine

DWCommuter wrote: »

Sorry, but what are you on about?

Apologies DW, I read your post incorrectly. Thought you were having a 'pop' at me, not that I mind a bit of banter.

si_guru

Here is a success.

http://www.elh.co.uk/hotels/midland/

DWCommuter

steamengine wrote: »

Apologies DW, I read your post incorrectly. Thought you were having a 'pop' at me, not that I mind a bit of banter.

Ah right. I think our posts crossed. My Dad was half cut and is now gone home.:D I'm just outside of the right age to remember the building. But he knew it.

DWCommuter

Amalgam wrote: »

Here's the website address removed from the Google URL Run_to_da_hills linked to:

http://www.sealink-holyhead.com/ports/dun_laoghaire/carlisle_pier/home.html

Ugh.. this makes me look hideously old, but I was 'on a train, on a boat', in Dun Laoghaire, when I was very young. I have vague recollections of it. I'll ask my parents about UK family holidays.

I was only ever on a boat train to the pier and back in 1977. Boarded in Heuston. Seen it again in '82, but got collected by car. I remember that in 1987, when I disembarked, the tracks were gone, but the ballast was still there. As was typical of CIE, the pier train ended with the introduction of the DART and for years Ferries continued to dock at carlisle, leaving a very disconnected walk from dock to train station. The current set up is fine though. As for the train sheds demolition, I still think it was very shortsighted. It certainly would've added to the redevelopment of the pier as a community facility. But corporate Ireland is still (and always will be) stuck in a demolish/rebuild mentality.

Amalgam

Cheers DWCommuter, I can probably narrow it down to between 78-81 or 82. I knew I wasn't dreaming.

Cookie_Monster

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Neither did the band stand.

thats not the band stand.

This is:


your image is the viewing gallery.

Judgement Day

My final trip from the Carlisle Pier was by steam (!) in 1980'ish on an RPSI tour behind a J15 - either 184 or 186. A 'sprightly' run back to Connolly resulted in the running board on one of the carriages making contact with the platform at Tara Street - sorry about the exact date but approaching senility and too much Guinness are catching up.

Victor

MYOB wrote: »

Actually, what are they going to be made rebuild - just the station or the entire terminal?

As I understand it there were two points (1) you need planning permission to demolish a non-residential building* over 100m2 (2) you need to have a listed structure de-listed to demolish it.


* You need planning permission to demolish any residential building.

murphaph

The point of making them rebuild it (at great expense) is to serve as a deterrant to other would be corporate vandals. They should indeed be forced to rebuild the Victorian element which they destroyed.

Run_to_da_hills

Harbour Board wrote:

"The so called “Train Shed” which was housed within the larger structure, was utterly derelict (pictures below), and the steel gables were in an advanced state of disintegration and were beyond repair. Those elements of the old train shed which could be salvaged – such as the iron columns - have been preserved and kept in storage – and it is intended that they will be integrated into the long term plan for the development of the Carlisle Pier in accord with the objective of the recently published County Development Plan".

The Dunlaoghaire Harbour Board can count themselves blessed.

http://www.dlharbour.ie/content/ms/detail.php?newid=1190&catid=5&category=News&locid=62