'Ryanair banned from charging credit card fee in Germany'

Tabnabs

RYANAIR HAS been forbidden from charging German customers a fee for using a credit or debit card to pay for flights.

Germany’s federal court of justice found yesterday that Ryanair placed consumers at a “disproportionate disadvantage” by offering no way to pay for flights without incurring a fee.

“By charging the fee is shifting in a one-sided manner on to customers the costs of fulfilling its own legal obligations ... without bringing any service in return,” said the court, a practice at odds with German law.

The case against Ryanair was brought by Germany’s leading consumer organisation. It complained about the fee, which ranges from €1.50 to €4 per flight and passenger.

By not accepting cash payments, it argued, Ryanair offered customers no opportunity to pay for flights without paying extra.

Lawyers for Ryanair argued that it passed on to customers the fee banks charge the airline for credit card payments, and that no fee was charged for using a Visa Electron card.

The court dismissed this argument yesterday, saying the airline must provide an “established” way of payment that does not require extra effort on the part of the consumer.

As most of Ryanair’s business is conducted online, the court permitted the airline to retain its no-cash payment policy.

The ruling is understood to be applicable to other low-cost airlines operating in Germany with a similar credit card fee.

The ruling came as the airline’s chief executive, Michael O’Leary, was in Germany to announce a €25 million investment in two maintenance hangers at Frankfurt-Hahn airport, near the western city of Koblenz.

Mr O’Leary said the investment would create 200 new jobs, increasing to 600 Ryanair’s workforce in the region.

The airline said in a statement that the investment would “replace those previously offered to the Irish Government earlier this year in the empty Hangar 6 at Dublin Airport”.

“While we are pleased to announce this new investment in Germany and Frankfurt-Hahn airport, I regret that the Irish Government stood idly by and did nothing to win these new jobs for Ireland,” said Mr O’Leary.

source

Hopefully this ban can be extended to other countries or at least Ryanair allow no fee incurring methods of payment that are widely available.

BrianD

So it's a phyrric victory. You should accept cash but you can retain your no-cash payment policy.

There's nothing wrong with the Ryanair policy. The consumer is simply paying a charge for the convenience of using their credit card. the alternative for Ryanair is to remove the charges and bury them in the fare price. Then there's no transparency.

DubDani

The problem was that they only offered Visa Electron as a free payment method, which is an almost unknown payment method in germany (finding a Visa Electron card in Germany would be as difficult as finding a free living lion in the Wicklow mountains).

So they have been ordered to offer a free payment method that is available to the majority of the population, which are Credit and Debit Cards.

AfterDusk

What's ridiculous here is that Ryanair have been singled out in all this, when most of the airlines that fly in and out of Germany also have credit card (or other form of payment) charges - if it's illegal for RYR to do it, then it should also be illegal for the others. So why didn't they pick on Aer Lingus, Air Berlin or any of the others? :rolleyes:

kierank01

neil2304 wrote: »

What's ridiculous here is that Ryanair have been singled out in all this, when most of the airlines that fly in and out of Germany also have credit card (or other form of payment) charges - if it's illegal for RYR to do it, then it should also be illegal for the others. So why didn't they pick on Aer Lingus, Air Berlin or any of the others? :rolleyes:

Read the OP again, I think you will find the following line:

The ruling is understood to be applicable to other low-cost airlines operating in Germany with a similar credit card fee.

Hopefully the EU will take this on board, and apply it across Europe.

Bluetonic

Dyflin wrote: »

Hopefully this ban can be extended to other countries or at least Ryanair allow no fee incurring methods of payment that are widely available.

In my opinion this is to be viewed as a negative rather than a positive thing. Ryanair will soon apply the lost revenue to the airfare.

It's a lose-lose decision for the consumer because now nobody will have a choice, we'll all be charge the extra in the fare.

mattman_iflaf

Bluetonic wrote: »

In my opinion this is to be viewed as a negative rather than a positive thing. Ryanair will soon apply the lost revenue to the airfare.

It's a lose-lose decision for the consumer because now nobody will have a choice, we'll all be charge the extra in the fare.

Nod

Wats_in_a_name

This is awful news. Ryanair offer a way to get really cheap flights. But you do need to know how to play the system. Anyone with access to google could get the electron / prepaid mastercard. Now everyone will be forced to pay increased airfares.

kierank01

Bluetonic wrote: »

In my opinion this is to be viewed as a negative rather than a positive thing. Ryanair will soon apply the lost revenue to the airfare.

It's a lose-lose decision for the consumer because now nobody will have a choice, we'll all be charge the extra in the fare.

but is the price of a flight that is bought with a visa electron dearer than that of a flight bought with a CC (minus the CC fee)?

Ryanair are being forced to provide a FREE payment method to all, not being forced to hide the fee in the ticket cost, which they currently do not do with visa electron payments.

kierank01

Wats_in_a_name wrote: »

This is awful news. Ryanair offer a way to get really cheap flights. But you do need to know how to play the system. Anyone with access to google could get the electron / prepaid mastercard. Now everyone will be forced to pay increased airfares.

I'd love to get a visa electron card, please tell me how to do this, thanks...

Bluetonic

kierank01 wrote: »

but is the price of a flight that is bought with a visa electron dearer than that of a flight bought with a CC (minus the CC fee)?

Ryanair are being forced to provide a FREE payment method to all, not being forced to hide the fee in the ticket cost, which they currently do not do with visa electron payments.

I think your missing the point of what I'm saying.

AfterDusk

The free payment method was changed months ago to pre-paid Mastercard by the way. Visa Electron now incurs the same €5 charge as the other cards. Pre-paid Mastercard are widely available

Bluetonic

neil2304 wrote: »

The free payment method was changed months ago to pre-paid Mastercard by the way. Visa Electron now incurs the same €5 charge as the other cards. Pre-paid Mastercard are widely available

The point still stands.

AfterDusk

Bluetonic wrote: »

The point still stands.

I know :rolleyes: . I was just making sure people weren't getting confused.

AlekSmart

I was just making sure people weren't getting confused.

Great to see yet again that it`s the Germans who stand up to the plate for the benefits of not having a credit card.

It`s no co-incidence that this is the same Germany that is effectively baling-out the rest of the E.U.

The Germans have never really been great fans of plastic and held the line against universal Credit Card possession far longer than any other Western Entity.

It will be interesting to see how Mick O Leary will deal with this judgement as he really does appear to be having just a little tougher time than usual right now.

I suppose he could warn the Teutons that he`ll move his new Maintenance Facility right back to Ireland if they don`t fire those judges and rescind their judgement....no ?....yea think that option`s passed alright

I have no problem whatever with a Credit Card administration charge,but just like M&S...there`s charges...and then there`s Ryanair charges !!

There is absolutely NO way that Ryanair`s policy of levying a CC admin charge on each individual for each sector is in any way fair.

By all means charge an Admin Fee but if it`s one transaction (For Example,a Family Group of 4 then Micko has one big-brass neck dipping their pocket for €40 when the entire single transaction is processed in one fell €5 swoop...at this rate we`ll be seeing Micko done up like Dick Turpin riding some oul nag along the Swords Road brandishing a brace of pistols at his Airport Bound customers !!

It`s also worth noting that Ryanair are very clear that the NO-Fee concession for Mastercard-Debit users is TEMPORARY...."For a Limited Period Only".

Stinicker

Everything is laid out up front with Ryanair and I like it that way, why pay extra for someones free luggage if you are only going for a night. The same applies to credit cards. We should look closer to home where Irish Rail have risen there Credit Card surcharge from €2.50 to €3 but still at least laser is free! Sucks if your a foreign tourist visiting though!

Del2005

AlekSmart wrote: »

There is absolutely NO way that Ryanair`s policy of levying a CC admin charge on each individual for each sector is in any way fair.

By all means charge an Admin Fee but if it`s one transaction (For Example,a Family Group of 4 then Micko has one big-brass neck dipping their pocket for €40 when the entire single transaction is processed in one fell €5 swoop...at this rate we`ll be seeing Micko done up like Dick Turpin riding some oul nag along the Swords Road brandishing a brace of pistols at his Airport Bound customers !!

It`s also worth noting that Ryanair are very clear that the NO-Fee concession for Mastercard-Debit users is TEMPORARY...."For a Limited Period Only".

Ryanair don't do combined tickets, each are individual and treated as one way tickets.

Ryanair are in it for the money, but if you play their game you can get to most places in Europe for less then €20pp. It's a simple mater of 10 seconds in Google and away you go.

The Visa Electron was also temporary which they replaced with an easier to access free method. I'm sure they'll change it again, but if you really wanted to it's relatively easy to avoid the charge.


The bigger rip off is it costs everyone (bar UK flights) €10 to get off an Island with no viable alternative mode of transport.

AlekSmart

Ryanair don't do combined tickets, each are individual and treated as one way tickets.

Del2005,the individuality of Ryanair tickets is not the issue here.

The hypothetical family of 4 may well have 8 tickets but the credit card transaction is a single one.
One Booking transaction-One Credit Card fee,that does not appear extravagant to me ?

Apart from this issue I would heartily agree that Ryanair are as good as it gets for cheapest flights.

Full_TiltKeith

Hey guys, not to thread spoil, but is there any reason ryanair dont take laser?

homerjay2005

AlekSmart wrote: »

Del2005,the individuality of Ryanair tickets is not the issue here.

The hypothetical family of 4 may well have 8 tickets but the credit card transaction is a single one.
One Booking transaction-One Credit Card fee,that does not appear extravagant to me ?

Apart from this issue I would heartily agree that Ryanair are as good as it gets for cheapest flights.

all airlines do the same...cant see why ryanair is being singled out here even though the article says it extends to other carriers.

AfterDusk

Full_TiltKeith wrote: »

Hey guys, not to thread spoil, but is there any reason ryanair dont take laser?

we do

thebiglad

homerjay2005 wrote: »

all airlines do the same...cant see why ryanair is being singled out here even though the article says it extends to other carriers.

I would guess someone levelled a complaint which was specific to them - the decision however applies to all airlines.

Stinicker

Full_TiltKeith wrote: »

Hey guys, not to thread spoil, but is there any reason ryanair dont take laser?

Ryanair do take laser but charge the €5 surcharge per one way flight like a credit card. Fair play to them for offering it even if they charge as it makes booking flights alot easier for people without credit cards.

anfromme

Stinicker wrote: »

Ryanair do take laser but charge the €5 surcharge per one way flight like a credit card. Fair play to them for offering it even if they charge as it makes booking flights alot easier for people without credit cards.

Fair play to a company for offering Laser as a payment option and charging 5€ per item (i.e. each flight sector for each person) for the fact that they do?
So I should effectively be thankful they're willing to take my money to begin with? While I can pay a pack of chewing gums, a bottle of milk and a frozen pizza at any supermarket or garage without being charged extra for my payment method?

Just to clarify the German court ruling, by the way - the court ruling stated that Ryanair has to offer one reasonably common form of payment without a surcharge.
There was previously a ruling - if I remember correctly - that Ryanair had to offer one free form of payment, because the court found it silly to have another 3 to 5€ surcharge just for paying your flight (because it begged the question why these 3 to 5€ weren't put into the price to begin with, if you have to pay them anyway).
Ryanair tried to get around that by choosing a rather obscure (particularly in Germany, where Visa Electron is virtually unheard of) form of payment and waiving the surcharge on that.
So somebody sued them again, and they were again found to be wrong, so they now have to offer at least one common form of payment that is not subject to a surcharge.
I'm curious what they'll come up with to get around this one. And I am sure they'll come up with something...