Angus cows

wiggy123

i breed Pedigree Angus cattle...and am a bit diss-allusioned at the mo..
as i don't think there covering there costs-and if so..leaving very little profit behind..
reasons i believe is-(1)country has gotten over run with Angus pedigree breeders(2)the dairy farmers have switched back to Dairy bulls for all there Dairy animals..for replacements- and maybe to sell as a gd calved heifer will make €1300+ on any given day!
(3)alot of dairy farmers have switched to hereford,as they believe,they are getting easier calvings,better prices for there bull calves and the heifers make good suckler replacement stock for Suckler farmers

So my question is? (HAVE 11 cows + 2 Hfrs for the bull)
i am ai'ing cows + heifers at mo, and Ai'ing only the angus females i think are of good standard+breeding to an Angus bull..so possibly only 4 animals
i will cull some others-as some of my cows are as big as charolais,and not breeding great calves, possibly 4 as well
culls are selling well at mo--hopefully-be the same in the back end.so these cows should easily make €1000+
Leaves me with a few other angus cows(light ones)--possibly 3 animals,What to breed them to?? BB....as a Charloais might give me a brown calf-weanling purchasers dislike them!

reilig

The bottom really has fallen out of pedigree breeding at the moment. Its really only a hobby and you will need an alternative enterprise to support it.

Personally i find that the best money to be made in farming is by breeding weinlings for export or bull beef. I had 6 or 7 belgian blue heifers last february and they averaged €500 with their weight -all bought for export. Plan to have a lot more this year - but knowing my luck, the market will be flooded with them and there will be a problem with exporting them. My BB bulls all averaged €450 with their weight.

Good quality continental breeds will also leave you some money. But you will need to have them over 300kg by 10 months old. As you suggested, Chaorlais crossed with your angus cow will bring a mousey brown colour which isn't liked by the buyers. Limousin with your angus cow will surely bring a black calf.

Its a tough call to make. I would put the BB on them. There are even some nice easy calving BB bulls for cows that might be a bit narrower. Your AI technician will advise.

wiggy123 wrote: »

i breed Pedigree Angus cattle...and am a bit diss-allusioned at the mo..
as i don't think there covering there costs-and if so..leaving very little profit behind..
reasons i believe is-(1)country has gotten over run with Angus pedigree breeders(2)the dairy farmers have switched back to Dairy bulls for all there Dairy animals..for replacements- and maybe to sell as a gd calved heifer will make €1300+ on any given day!
(3)alot of dairy farmers have switched to hereford,as they believe,they are getting easier calvings,better prices for there bull calves and the heifers make good suckler replacement stock for Suckler farmers

So my question is? (HAVE 11 cows + 2 Hfrs for the bull)
i am ai'ing cows + heifers at mo, and Ai'ing only the angus females i think are of good standard+breeding to an Angus bull..so possibly only 4 animals
i will cull some others-as some of my cows are as big as charolais,and not breeding great calves, possibly 4 as well
culls are selling well at mo--hopefully-be the same in the back end.so these cows should easily make €1000+
Leaves me with a few other angus cows(light ones)--possibly 3 animals,What to breed them to?? BB....as a Charloais might give me a brown calf-weanling purchasers dislike them!

wiggy123

thanks..was thinking same...angus cows i'd say ..should have no prob having a BB calf..
my cows throw the AA calves out--maybe to fast

snowman707

you most likely won't like my reply, if the cows arent producing the goods then the factory is the place for them. you said the cows were "light", and replace with an animal that is capable of producing a top class weanling.

My daughter dabbles with a few sucklers and sells the calves at about 12 months old, has got up to €1400 for the bulls and €1000 for the heifers. we recently sold 15 yearling bulling heifers MO and MOX, X Lm from the yard at €850 each, would most likely would have got more, but the buyer is a repeat customer of 10 years standing and has send many potential customers both for heifers and for pedigree bulls to me,

wiggy123

see i still want to be down the pedigree route--as i like the angus--easy to work with and keep...
this is only a hobby--as i do have a 9-5 job(thankfully)

whelan1

you have to take the rough with the smooth everything takes a full turn a couple of years ago i paid 4k for a friesian bull today i paid 900:eek: you cant just jump off the ship at the first sign of a fall as you said you have a day job , this is not your chief earner i would stick it out for this year and see what happens

Horace

Would it be worth trying a red angus bull on your cows or try another one of the Scottish breeds like black or belted galloway as there is demand now for galloways to graze the hills

Tipp farm hand

I have to agree, mind your day job and ride out the wave, hopefully it will be worth it down the road..

whelan1

also remember one year about 10 years ago we had a load of angus bulls as we had done an embryo transfer we ended up selling them for £800 as there where so many angus bulls out there and so many breeders:mad: we are thinking of downsizing as the angus herd purely as they are my dads and he is nearly pension age , i will keep a few on as i like them and i dont expect to become rich on them:cool:

portwest

As Horace suggested try a red angus bull, progressive genetics have "Lanigan red blaze",he is throwing lovely calves.

bogman_bass

Your big framey cows might be just the right ones for the BB. When using blues use the bull for muscle and the cow to add frame and size.
I think the angus makes a great suckler cow. plenty of milk, fertile calve easily as long as they arent let get too fat and the offspring finsih easily. Only use angus A.I. on the best of the best and the rest use a terminal sire

mossfort

i dont think the angus makes a good suckler because they lack in length and the calves growth rates are behind other breeds.
ive had a few angus cows and their calves from a charolais bull have been small and have always sold for less money so i got rid of all angus cows.
for a good suckler i found limousin ,simmental or bb crosses to be the best to produce a decent calf.

whelan1

mossfort wrote: »

i dont think the angus makes a good suckler because they lack in length and the calves growth rates are behind other breeds.
ive had a few angus cows and their calves from a charolais bull have been small and have always sold for less money so i got rid of all angus cows.
for a good suckler i found limousin ,simmental or bb crosses to be the best to produce a decent calf.

sorry have to take you up on that a few years ago we had an angus bull in tully his growth rate was the best there beating charolaois , limousin , belgian blue etc he bet them by a mile for daily live weight gain also the canadian influence means they are as long as any other breed our bull is priestown jupiter (ptj) which pg bought

snowman707

bogman_bass wrote: »

Your big framey cows might be just the right ones for the BB. When using blues use the bull for muscle and the cow to add frame and size.
I think the angus makes a great suckler cow. plenty of milk, fertile calve easily as long as they arent let get too fat and the offspring finsih easily. Only use angus A.I. on the best of the best and the rest use a terminal sire

I agree with you that angus cows can produce nice cattle especially when x with charollais however the op mention weanling, IMO if you want to produce a quality weanling which will attract the high cost purchasers, the continental cow is the only answer

whelan1 wrote: »

sorry have to take you up on that a few years ago we had an angus bull in tully his growth rate was the best there beating charolaois , limousin , belgian blue etc he bet them by a mile for daily live weight gain also the canadian influence means they are as long as any other breed our bull is priestown jupiter (ptj) which pg bought

no body doubts that angus cannot produce quality cattle but for every quality aa bull i have seen I must have seen about 20 which should never have been registered

whelan1

too true but in all fairness that can be said for every breed







no body doubts that angus cannot produce quality cattle but for every quality aa bull i have seen I must have seen about 20 which should never have been registered[/QUOTE]

pakalasa

whelan1 wrote: »

....our bull is priestown jupiter (ptj) which pg bought

You bred PTJ..:eek:. Fair play. He's a decent bull, alright.

whelan1

pakalasa wrote: »

You bred PTJ..:eek:. Fair play. He's a decent bull, alright.

ye and munster bought priestown tornado (ptn) from us too he breed calves like limousins

blue5000

Hi Wiggy,

It looks like you are in a bit of a predicament. I think all breeds of bulls are going through a bit of a recession at the moment. I paid 2k for a big aa bull (by lawsonsford bagatelle) 3 years ago, because I wanted to breed aax cows with a bit of size. What you decide now will be affected by what the market wants in 2yrs time if you use aa straws, or next year if you cross breed.
I find bbxaa great cattle, great frame and easy to finish. The only reason anybody wants a smaller aa bull is to run with heifers. If this market is gone (dairy farmers) you might be better off breeding your big cows to aa. Only my 2 cents worth...

bogman_bass

The other thing is that there will probably be a pile of dairy heifers on ther ground next year between more dairy Straws being used and more sexed semen being used.
the trend could well swing back to beef bulls on dairy cows

leg wax

whelan1 wrote: »

sorry have to take you up on that a few years ago we had an angus bull in tully his growth rate was the best there beating charolaois , limousin , belgian blue etc he bet them by a mile for daily live weight gain also the canadian influence means they are as long as any other breed our bull is priestown jupiter (ptj) which pg bought

if you didnt feed him before he went up what else would you expect:P. only jokeing fair play a bull in ai havent got that far and will not.

capslock88

would anyone suggest that the breed societies raise the barriers to entry for new breeders?...think it might make sense myself...currently breeds like angus and hereford especially seem to be over-run with bulls...barrier mite prevent smaller less committed breeders from entering and ensure that only people who really want to make a go of it and strive to produce good cattle are allowed breed pedigree cattle....
with the current climate i think wiggy that you wont be on your own rethinking your operation...we breed herefords and with the prices we're getting this year for bulls, it just looks worrying...loads of bulls around and no1 buying and if they are, its at prices that are nearly worse than the factory!..still what often happens is that the wheel turns..dairy emphasis changes back to the beef bull and demand rises...it's an awful cyclical market but lets just hope it changes and fast!

ellewood

whelan1 wrote: »

you have to take the rough with the smooth everything takes a full turn a couple of years ago i paid 4k for a friesian bull today i paid 900:eek: you cant just jump off the ship at the first sign of a fall as you said you have a day job , this is not your chief earner i would stick it out for this year and see what happens

i agree completly i breed charolais and 2 yrs ago was getting on avg of 2000 or em last spring they averaged only 1800 at around 20 mths and last fall only round 1300 at 12 mths was getting fed up as wasnt as muchprofit in em was going to get rid of sum of em but stuck with em through the long winter all calved ok and have sold 2 bulls in the last week 1 for 1400 and 1 for 2350 at 12 mths old from customers that had bough bulls from me b4 so you have to take a longer view wit em alright but ive got a job as well so im not too dependent on them as long as they pay their way re pay bank for sheds ect and ive a few euro left over im happy.

would agree with original post tho the country is full of blacks and limos so any time someting is plentyful the price is down and also i know limo breeders who had 800kg very well bred bulls and sold em for 1100 to get money and couldnt keep bulls around as had hfrs,no room ect so had to get rid of em

whelan1

have 2 people coming tomorrow to look at bulls so fingers crossed

ellewood

best of luck
i find once you can get em into the yard and you have good stuff and the moneys alright 95% will buy.
where do you find to be the best place to advertise em?

whelan1

alot of the time its farmers coming back that have bought before but we also advertise in the journal but you can get time wasters too

ellewood

yea deffo lads that were happy with other bulls comiing back are great if youve got somting to suit em plus its great to know there pleased enough with the last bull to come back for another 1 or tell some 1 elst to come.

yea you can get sum amount of wasters off the journal alright but spose youll get that

snowman707

ellewood wrote: »

would agree with original post tho the country is full of blacks and limos so any time someting is plentyful the price is down and also i know limo breeders who had 800kg very well bred bulls and sold em for 1100 to get money and couldnt keep bulls around as had hfrs,no room ect so had to get rid of em

we had 3 limo bulls for sale this spring sold 1 @1700 and 1 @ 1450 in the yard last month, the third fellow was 18 months and I didn't like his temperament, wouldn't have felt happy about giving him to anyone, eventhough none of his breed ever got wicked

we killed him about 10 days ago and he netted €1540 in the factory, ... kinda makes one think about all the expense with pedigree breeding.

reilig

ellewood wrote: »

would agree with original post tho the country is full of blacks and limos so any time someting is plentyful the price is down and also i know limo breeders who had 800kg very well bred bulls and sold em for 1100 to get money and couldnt keep bulls around as had hfrs,no room ect so had to get rid of em

Would have thought that an 800kg young bull would make a lot more than 1100 in the mart for export rather than selling him for 1100 just to get rid of him. I sold 3/4 bred weinlings for more than that in the last few months.

ellewood

snowman707 wrote: »

we had 3 limo bulls for sale this spring sold 1 @1700 and 1 @ 1450 in the yard last month, the third fellow was 18 months and I didn't like his temperament, wouldn't have felt happy about giving him to anyone, eventhough none of his breed ever got wicked

we killed him about 10 days ago and he netted €1540 in the factory, ... kinda makes one think about all the expense with pedigree breeding.

jezus that was good price what weight was he what did he grade and what price did you get I had a charolais last fall and he got hurt his back he prob would have been alright but wouldnt have been happy either he killed out an E at 520kgs dead and i got 3.05/kg - which was U price got notin more for an E grade

ellewood

reilig wrote: »

Would have thought that an 800kg young bull would make a lot more than 1100 in the mart for export rather than selling him for 1100 just to get rid of him. I sold 3/4 bred weinlings for more than that in the last few months.

agree 100% and he was a good bull by mas de clou halter trained ringed the lot the problem with lads selling em for that is when you go to sell a bull in the yard lads will always remind you of those bulls that were sold for small money

vanderbadger

snowman707 wrote: »

we had 3 limo bulls for sale this spring sold 1 @1700 and 1 @ 1450 in the yard last month, the third fellow was 18 months and I didn't like his temperament, wouldn't have felt happy about giving him to anyone, eventhough none of his breed ever got wicked

we killed him about 10 days ago and he netted €1540 in the factory, ... kinda makes one think about all the expense with pedigree breeding.

sorry snowman im going off track here but as someone who knows nothing about the factory can you tell me how you deal with them, would you just send that bull in and take what you get or would you talk to factory rep before hand, also if there a difference in the factory between bulls and bullocks, or is it just cattle under 2 years old that are categorized differently?

whelan1

sold 1 and have another guy coming later

wiggy123

lucky u whelan1...any more buyers--send them down the road..had 3 in a field there for sale! nice animals..thanks

wiggy123

ai'd one of cows to an angus bull yesterday---next couple of cows--will put BB on....i think

snowman707

vanderbadger wrote: »

sorry snowman im going off track here but as someone who knows nothing about the factory can you tell me how you deal with them, would you just send that bull in and take what you get or would you talk to factory rep before hand, also if there a difference in the factory between bulls and bullocks, or is it just cattle under 2 years old that are categorized differently?

we use an agent, he deals with about 3 or 4 factories and abattoirs, and is able to fight for the best deal, there was about 30 bulls on our load £1.14 per lb. for U's (still working old money) . think they are a bit more now.


if bulls go over 2 years a lot of factories will try to pass a cow price on you