Trouble with cleats

pointer28

Hi Guys,

I bought a set of shimano SPD pedals and matching shoes from CRC and they're working fine, I can really feel the benefits and everything feels easier once I got into the rhythm of just spinning my legs around rather than mashing the pedals.

However, after about an hour and a half my feet get really, really sore. I get severe pins and needles in the ball of my foot which is directly above the cleats, this spreads as far as my toes and my feet eventually turn numb, as soon as I stop pedalling all is fine.

The shoes fit fine and I don't overtighten the laces, so I presume it's something to do with cleat position on the shoes. When I got them first, I had them really far forward, but this was obviously wrong and I changed it almost immediately.

Where roughly should they be? Is there any kind of guidelines that I should follow? I'm not a member of a club and I bought them online so I have nobody available to look at them and advise me.

I just did a lovely 25 miles this evening in the glorious sunshine but the last 5 miles were agony.

Any advice??? Please !

LastGasp

I've been having similar problems for a while, but at higher mileage. About 100 kms I start getting severe pains in my toes. I'm sure it's down to poor circulation. One recommendation is to move cleats right back which I did. I thought that had fixed the problem, but it came back. Then I bought some high arch Footdisc Insoles which did the trick for a while. I was so convinced that it was sorted, that I bought 4 pairs for my cycling and walking shoes. Then it came back again ! I'm afraid I don't have an answer - here's an interesting report

How to Solve Painful 'Hot Foot'
By Fred Matheny for www.RoadBikeRider.com
In cycling, it’s known as “hot foot” -- a burning pain in the ball of the foot, perhaps radiating toward the toes. Severe cases feel like some sadistic demon is applying a blowtorch.
Hot foot occurs most often on long rides. It may develop sooner or more intensely on hilly courses because climbs cause greater pedaling pressure. The pain results when nerves are squeezed between the heads of each foot’s five long metatarsal bones. These heads are in the wide part of the foot (the “ball”) just behind the toes.
My worst case of hot foot occurred on a 3,400-mile, 24-day transcontinental ride. With an average distance of 140 miles per day, no rest days and more than 100,000 feet of vertical gain, my dogs were smoking by the third week.
My RBR partner, Ed Pavelka, remembers being in agony near the end of one 225-mile ride early in his long-distance career. It was his first experience with hot foot, and the problem plagued him that season until he changed to larger shoes. Feet always swell on long rides (more so in hot weather), causing pressure inside shoes that normally fit fine.
“Hot foot” is actually a misnomer. It’s not heat but rather pressure on nerves that causes the burning sensation. You’ll sometimes see riders squirting water on their pups in a vain attempt to put out the fire.
Besides tight shoes, another risk factor is small pedals, especially if you have large feet. Small pedal surfaces concentrate pressure on the ball of the foot instead of spreading it the way a larger pedal will. If your cycling shoes have flexible soles like most mountain bike shoes, they’ll be less able to diffuse pressure.
Before Ed figured out his shoe-size problem, he tried to solve the pain with cortisone injections. That’s an unnecessary extreme in most cases -- and it’s not fun to have a doctor stick a needle between your toes. Here are several better solutions.

• Adjust shoe straps. It’s the top strap nearest your ankle that stops your feet from slopping around in your shoes. Tighten it as much as necessary, but keep the strap nearest your toes loose for maximum room.
  
• Use thinner insoles and/or socks. This will give your feet more room to swell without restriction, especially helpful if your shoes are borderline snug.
  
• Re-focus the pressure. Many riders solve hot foot by moving their cleats to the rear by as much as 8 mm. Long-distance enthusiast may go back as far as the cleat slots allow. They might even drill new rearward holes. After using this remedy, lower your saddle by the same amount if you moved your cleats backward 2-4 mm. If more than 4 mm, lower the saddle about half the amount. So, if your cleats go back 1 cm, put the saddle down 5 mm.
  
• Add metatarsal buttons. These foam domes are placed on insoles (or are built into them) just behind the ball of the foot. They spread the metatarsal bones so the nerves running between them aren’t pinched by pressure or swelling. You can find these products in the foot-care section of drug stores.
  
• Switch to larger pedals, for the reason mentioned above.
  
• Buy new shoes. Look for a model with a wider-and-higher toe box, a stiffer sole and an anatomical footbed with a metatarsal button. One model that meets these specs is the Specialized BG, with versions for road and off-road.
  
• Purchase custom orthotics. These plastic footbeds are supplied by podiatrists or sports medicine clinics. Among their biomechanical benefits are built-in metatarsal buttons. Be certain the practitioner understands you're a cyclist, because orthotics for runners are not what you need. Cycling is a forefoot activity, not a heel-strike activity.

For more information on hot foot, orthotics and other foot-related issues, see "Andy Pruitt’s Medical Guide for Cyclists," available as an eBook in the online eBookstore at RoadBikeRider.com.

pointer28

Thanks LastGasp

The only practical solution I can get from that is to move my cleats further back as I don't think the shows are too tight and I already wear thin socks.

I won't try the others just yet as they all cost money, which is in short supply.

Are there any guidelines for cleat positioning?

horizon26

I was just about to start a thread about this.My problem is my left foot and only my left foot goes a bit numb.Its not very uncomfortable is more annoying.

It has only happened very recently,its coincided with me using my new keo max pedals.I have got used to these pedals and I really like them a lot.They are light and I have found that I seem to be able to go faster climb much better.I really don't want to go back to my shimano's but I might have to.

I have the cleats back as far as they go and I have a new pair of expensive shoes.The new shoes improve the problem but its still there.Maybe it might go away in time I really hope so.As I say its a bit numb and not unbearable.I am overweight maybe this is my problem,can't remember this ever happening when I used my ultegra's?

As I say I don't want to really want to go back to my ultegra's.Perhaps if I move my cleats forward a touch it might help.Any idea's anyone

horizon26

LastGasp wrote: »

I've been having similar problems for a while, but at higher mileage. About 100 kms I start getting severe pains in my toes. I'm sure it's down to poor circulation. One recommendation is to move cleats right back which I did. I thought that had fixed the problem, but it came back. Then I bought some high arch Footdisc Insoles which did the trick for a while. I was so convinced that it was sorted, that I bought 4 pairs for my cycling and walking shoes. Then it came back again ! I'm afraid I don't have an answer - here's an interesting report

How to Solve Painful 'Hot Foot'
By Fred Matheny for www.RoadBikeRider.com
In cycling, it’s known as “hot foot” -- a burning pain in the ball of the foot, perhaps radiating toward the toes. Severe cases feel like some sadistic demon is applying a blowtorch.
Hot foot occurs most often on long rides. It may develop sooner or more intensely on hilly courses because climbs cause greater pedaling pressure. The pain results when nerves are squeezed between the heads of each foot’s five long metatarsal bones. These heads are in the wide part of the foot (the “ball”) just behind the toes.
My worst case of hot foot occurred on a 3,400-mile, 24-day transcontinental ride. With an average distance of 140 miles per day, no rest days and more than 100,000 feet of vertical gain, my dogs were smoking by the third week.
My RBR partner, Ed Pavelka, remembers being in agony near the end of one 225-mile ride early in his long-distance career. It was his first experience with hot foot, and the problem plagued him that season until he changed to larger shoes. Feet always swell on long rides (more so in hot weather), causing pressure inside shoes that normally fit fine.
“Hot foot” is actually a misnomer. It’s not heat but rather pressure on nerves that causes the burning sensation. You’ll sometimes see riders squirting water on their pups in a vain attempt to put out the fire.
Besides tight shoes, another risk factor is small pedals, especially if you have large feet. Small pedal surfaces concentrate pressure on the ball of the foot instead of spreading it the way a larger pedal will. If your cycling shoes have flexible soles like most mountain bike shoes, they’ll be less able to diffuse pressure.

Before Ed figured out his shoe-size problem, he tried to solve the pain with cortisone injections. That’s an unnecessary extreme in most cases -- and it’s not fun to have a doctor stick a needle between your toes. Here are several better solutions.

• Adjust shoe straps. It’s the top strap nearest your ankle that stops your feet from slopping around in your shoes. Tighten it as much as necessary, but keep the strap nearest your toes loose for maximum room.
  
• Use thinner insoles and/or socks. This will give your feet more room to swell without restriction, especially helpful if your shoes are borderline snug.
  
• Re-focus the pressure. Many riders solve hot foot by moving their cleats to the rear by as much as 8 mm. Long-distance enthusiast may go back as far as the cleat slots allow. They might even drill new rearward holes. After using this remedy, lower your saddle by the same amount if you moved your cleats backward 2-4 mm. If more than 4 mm, lower the saddle about half the amount. So, if your cleats go back 1 cm, put the saddle down 5 mm.
  
• Add metatarsal buttons. These foam domes are placed on insoles (or are built into them) just behind the ball of the foot. They spread the metatarsal bones so the nerves running between them aren’t pinched by pressure or swelling. You can find these products in the foot-care section of drug stores.
  
• Switch to larger pedals, for the reason mentioned above.
  
• Buy new shoes. Look for a model with a wider-and-higher toe box, a stiffer sole and an anatomical footbed with a metatarsal button. One model that meets these specs is the Specialized BG, with versions for road and off-road.
  
• Purchase custom orthotics. These plastic footbeds are supplied by podiatrists or sports medicine clinics. Among their biomechanical benefits are built-in metatarsal buttons. Be certain the practitioner understands you're a cyclist, because orthotics for runners are not what you need. Cycling is a forefoot activity, not a heel-strike activity.

For more information on hot foot, orthotics and other foot-related issues, see "Andy Pruitt’s Medical Guide for Cyclists," available as an eBook in the online eBookstore at RoadBikeRider.com.

I think my answers are here seems like very good advice.

LastGasp

My shoes certainly don't feel tight. In fact last time I got the pains I opened all the straps and it didn't make any difference. I think my next move is a visit to Irish Fit for assessment for Custom Orthotic Insoles.

pointer28

Thanks again LastGasp,

Feck it, I hope I don't have to have to go down that expensive route. I'm not even a serious cyclist. I just have my €400 hybrid and I enjoy cycling purely for the sake of it, have no interest in racing or setting record times.

The decent weather is just making it worse, it looks like another cracker today and great for a nice 40 miler but I can feel the pain just thinking about it and I don't want to put my flats back on.

LastGasp

Went mad today and bought a pair of the Specialized BG Elites in Cycleways. Test drive tomorrow !

LastGasp

LastGasp wrote: »

Went mad today and bought a pair of the Specialized BG Elites in Cycleways. Test drive tomorrow !

They didn't make any difference ! Same problem from 100kms. Bugger.

The tax man

LastGasp wrote: »

They didn't make any difference ! Same problem from 100kms. Bugger.

What about a foot transplant?
These bad boys will withstand 1000's of kms pain free.:D

For what it's worth I suffer the exact same problem too,it's quite annoying and distracting at times.

pointer28

Felt like I needed a foot transplant the other night

The pain doesn't last though, as soon as I'm home and off the bike my feet are fine, no residual pain at all, I even purposely left my shoes on and wore them around the house just to see if they were the problem. They weren't.

I moved the cleats further back and it does seem to have made a difference, still a bit painful, but not as bad. The problem is I'm just randomly moving them about without knowing why or what I'm doing. They are in the middle of the shoe, should I try moving them sideways or is this likely to make a difference?

LastGasp

Found some interesting info on the www last night. I've modified a pair of shoes to turn the base part of my Speedplay Cleats backwards, which puts them about 5cm further back than normally possible. I haven't tried them yet, but at this stage anything is worth a go. If it works I might stick like that, or maybe consider getting a pair of these Custom D2 Shoes made.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/D2_shoe_owners...arch_cleats...reviews_P2835707/

http://www.trainingbible.com/joesblog/2007/01/cleat-position.html