Here is the wine (and a few beers)

Murphyt

I thought I would start a new thread out of the ashes of another thread that will remain nameless like that shakespeare play for fear of it getting argued to death.

These are the 2 items I posted in "that" thread just to get started. So if you are interested then have no fear wine or beer.

1.
Beer and wine go hand in hand gentleman.

I had a bottle of whitstable bay while preparing dinner and along with the starter, asparagus wrapped in parma ham and grilled with a little parmesan on top.
then a bottle of 1996 Phelan Segur, Bordeaux with steak and veg oven roasted in honey.
All I can say is I love whitstable bay and could drink it anytime anywhere, the Segur was an indulgence of course considering the price but unbelievable, I really wanted to send the wife away and have it all to myself but then there would be the divorce proceedings and it gets messy.

Any 2005 bordeaux will be good as it is to be the best year in a long time, it would be worth getting some nice ones to keep till about 2018 but even the cheap ones will be good as any crappy wine producer can produce a good bottle from that year.

2.
Sunday was a starter of cured meets with peppers and gurkins, with this I had 2 ales firstly was hobgoblins and it was delicious I never had it before and found it a good strong flavour to go with the meets, 2nd was bishops finger again a nice dark ale although I have had many bishops finger (easy now) in my day so I knew what I was getting.
Dinner was pork and with this went 2 wines.
First a white, 2007 ginglinger riesling alsace from the wine buff for 14 euro, it was very nice crisp and fruity.
Secondly was a red, Chateau de Fontenay 2005 from o'briens at 12.95. This was very satisfactory and I have had it before in the 2000, which is another excellent year, it would not be a great estate but in these 2 years, although I dont think the 2000 is available anymore, this wine is good value and stands up well enough to most bordeaux at least when drinking with food.
Sorry about the wine descriptions I know what I like and what I dont like but can never really describe why.

BeerNut

Do you have a serious cellaring set-up? I'd always be very wary of buying really good wine since I doubt I can keep it in the conditions I'm told it needs.

I'm not a fan of Whitstable Bay -- it's a bit bland -- but I do like Bishop's Finger and it is indeed a great meat-beer. Unfortunately Shepherd Neame (and a few of the other big English breweries) have a maddening habit of putting their beer in clear glass bottles, which can ruin it if it gets exposed to light.

Murphyt

BeerNut wrote: »

Do you have a serious cellaring set-up? I'd always be very wary of buying really good wine since I doubt I can keep it in the conditions I'm told it needs.

I'm not a fan of Whitstable Bay -- it's a bit bland -- but I do like Bishop's Finger and it is indeed a great meat-beer. Unfortunately Shepherd Neame (and a few of the other big English breweries) have a maddening habit of putting their beer in clear glass bottles, which can ruin it if it gets exposed to light.

No I have no cellar, I just keep it in the wardrobe to be honest and that is only to keep it out of the light, I dont think there is enough temperature variation in my house to warrant anything else and I can neither afford nor have the room for it but am willing to take the risk. Also if you buy a good bottle in a shop that is already say 14 years old it is unlikely the off licence has gone through the trouble of storing it correctly and has most likely been just sitting on the shelf for the last couple of years.
I know what you mean about the whitstable but sometimes I dont want to much character, as it where, especially if a few are going to be consumed. I never even thought about the clear bottles, can it turn quickly if exposed to light, I imagine the only real light exposure it would get is in the shop itself as the store room would be dark and the bottles boxed I assume (probably incorrectly) and the lights turns off when I close the fridge and it is generally consumed the same day too:) A beer I also enjoyed recently was Timothy Taylors Landlord.

BeerNut

Murphyt wrote: »

can it turn quickly if exposed to light,

Yes, very. A pint in a sunny beer garden can turn in the course of drinking it. It's a flavour compound in the hops that does it, and fluorescent shoplights cause it too. Shepherd Neame used to box their beers but these days they wrap them in clear plastic on cardboard trays, unfortunately.

So presumably your wardrobed wines are stored on their sides?

Murphyt

BeerNut wrote: »

Yes, very. A pint in a sunny beer garden can turn in the course of drinking it. It's a flavour compound in the hops that does it, and fluorescent shoplights cause it too. Shepherd Neame used to box their beers but these days they wrap them in clear plastic on cardboard trays, unfortunately.

So presumably your wardrobed wines are stored on their sides?

Yes I store them on their sides and also I use a styrofoam case, (this I happened on by chance when ordering wine from italy and it was delivered in it, it helps with the temp I suppose and my son can accidentaly give it a kick. I must point out I dont have that many perhaps 15 bottles, I find it hard not to drink it.

I've never experienced a sunny beer garden, ha!. I assume this is why some of the older heads in the local use the ceramic mugs as well as the fact it helps keep it cold becasue you are not wrapping your 37 degree hand around it.

BeerNut

Murphyt wrote: »

I assume this is why some of the older heads in the local use the ceramic mugs

Depends where your local is. Very few Irish pubs serve beer hoppy enough to be affected. With a pint of English bitter it's a different story.

Murphyt

Here is a website for a wine shop in lucca in italy that I have had the pleaure to visit on many occasions, you can order from here and it is sent via post, however you have to be carefull as the delivery charges seem to vary month by month, I got a case sent one year with a delivery charge of only 40 Euro this is amazing considering the class of wine you can get and the difference in the botte price compared to here. They sell wine from 4.50 for an enrico serafino barbera di asti to 4500 a bottle of the blood of lucifers love child.

http://www.enotecavanni.com/enoteca-vanni-en.asp

If you ever have the opportunity to visit lucca you have to go here it is an aladins cave, literally as downstairs brances out into 4 or 5 underground tunnels of wine.

May I recommend 2 italian wines to try for anyone who has not tried italian other than cianti.
Barolo (red), there are many vinyards so I wont give a specific, but I love it good vintage is 2000 and 2004, the 2004 should be available and reasonably priced. This wine ages very well I feel it is like the bordeaux if italy. It comes from piedmonte.
Also from piedmonte is gavi (white) this is a really crisp white excellent day time wine. An are directly beside it is arneis and wimes from this region are equally good, o'briens have a gavi di gavi and also a couple of arneis.

Murphyt

BeerNut wrote: »

Depends where your local is. Very few Irish pubs serve beer hoppy enough to be affected. With a pint of English bitter it's a different story.

They certainly are not drinking anything of quality such as bitter, probably smithwicks, I think it is just the temperature thing, I do it myself at home, I bought a leather tankard from a shop in norwhich and I love using it, actually I got a friend one online from this site.
http://www.hidebound.co.uk/
It just adds a little something to having an ale.
What bitters are good and available, I have had them in England and loved it but never here.

Murphyt

Just a little add on to italian wines avoid any itlian 2002 like a virus, I think a flock of demons urinated on the soil that year.

BeerNut

Murphyt wrote: »

What bitters are good and available, I have had them in England and loved it but never here.

It's not really the local style here -- the Porterhouse make the only real attempt at it in the form of TSB, but the only Irish branch they sell it is Temple Bar. Irish Red is descended from bitter, decent examples being O'Hara's Red (esp. on draught) and Rebel Red. For that extra hop kick, there's Galway Hooker or Porterhouse Hophead.

Did I read somewhere that Italy recently overtook France as the world's biggest wine producer by volume?

Murphyt

BeerNut wrote: »

It's not really the local style here -- the Porterhouse make the only real attempt at it in the form of TSB, but the only Irish branch they sell it is Temple Bar. Irish Red is descended from bitter, decent examples being O'Hara's Red (esp. on draught) and Rebel Red. For that extra hop kick, there's Galway Hooker or Porterhouse Hophead.

Did I read somewhere that Italy recently overtook France as the world's biggest wine producer by volume?

I love O'Hara's red and their stout too, delicious. Where can you get O'Hara's red on tap (I am drogheda, dublin, Bray area). I keep hearing about this Glaway Hooker and will have to throw her a fiver and see what she does for me. Can you get Galway hooker on the easy I take it this is a bottled beer.

I did not hear about Italy taking over France, however it would not surprise me as the French are very slow at changing their ways in regards labeling and so you are expected to know what the grape is etc just by the area it came from and this can change depending on where in the region, take bordeaux for example it depends on whether you are east, west or north of the river, thats fine if you live there but too much for my swiss cheese brain to remember. At least the italians, like everywhere else, put a label on the back with details of the grape etc, you might notice now after me saying this that most french wines only have a front label and that is why.
Italian wine is beatiful though, however where they fall down is there control system the DocG stuff, it is badly regulated and a few quid here and there can get a grower whatever he wants. Again its no problem if you live there because you can milk a cat and get good wine from it so it makes no difference but that cat wine will not travel well.

Murphyt

BeerNut, I also meant to ask is there good bitters in bottle here or is there any good ones that can be shipped from over yonder. Is Fullers TSB anygood, I think it is fullers

BeerNut

Murphyt wrote: »

Where can you get O'Hara's red on tap

Bull & Castle, Christchurch and O'Neill's, Suffolk Street: both Dublin. Galway Hooker is draught only. Again, you'll need to come to Dublin, there's a map of outlets here.

Murphyt wrote: »

where they fall down is there control system the DocG stuff, it is badly regulated and a few quid here and there can get a grower whatever he wants.

Ever read A Long Finish by Michael Dibdin? Fantastic crime thriller about the subject.

Murphyt wrote: »

that cat wine will not travel well.

Why? What happens to it in transit?

Murphyt wrote: »

Is Fullers TSB anygood, I think it is fullers

Yes, it's excellent. A lot of people like London Pride too, though I'm not gone on it. The Bateman's beers appear now and again and are very good from the bottle: XXXB and Combined Harvest, for instance.

Murphyt

Thanks for the map, I should be visiting Anseo soon so I shall dable then, I also have to visit O'Neill's of suffolk street, they seem to enjoy beer their, I believe they had a taste off for stouts recently though I missed it, but good to see it happening.

To be honest I have no idea what happens to wine during travelling or if it is just urban hogwash, I did chemistry years ago but they never told us anything of use, bloody chiral carbons. However if there is any truth to it poorly made wine suffers from travel possibly by temperature variations and also it is probably not treated with the upmost respect and wrapped in the fleece of baby fox for the journey so suffers plenty of temperature extremes and they will throw a UV light into the case for the laugh.
I was in a restaurant in lucca last year and the house wine was lovely, nothing amazing it was light and fruity but really went well with the food and it was 4 euro for a caraffe, however when I asked could I buy a jug of it and take it back to the apartment he said drink it tonight and flush the toilet with it tomorrow as it will barely last the journey across the road!

I have not seen that book but I like the plot where a film director wants a detective to investigate the murder of a wine maker as he is afraid his favourite wine will be in trouble, thats priorities.

BeerNut

Murphyt wrote: »

they seem to enjoy beer

I think their buyer is obsessive-compulsive; thay have close to everything that's readily available, regardless of style, origin or quality.

Murphyt wrote: »

To be honest I have no idea what happens to wine during travelling or if it is just urban hogwash

I'd love to know. Presumably the really rustic stuff is made with the minimum of expensive perservatives, and that's one reason.

Murphyt

BeerNut wrote: »

I'd love to know. Presumably the really rustic stuff is made with the minimum of expensive perservatives, and that's one reason.

I will have to do some digging around and find out, it might be the difference in the equipment used. Also the other thing with the docg and apallation controle is that it is suposed to gaurantee the grape varity used, so if it can be easily bought then it makes it difficult to know what you are getting regarless of what it says on the tin. Of course that sould not matter to the travelling, but like I said I will dig and post anything I find.
Well the weekend approaches and hopefully a couple of wines will be samples and I shall post any findings. Toodle oo.

muckety

Murphyt wrote: »

Here is a website for a wine shop in lucca in italy that I have had the pleaure to visit on many occasions, you can order from here and it is sent via post, however you have to be carefull as the delivery charges seem to vary month by month, I got a case sent one year with a delivery charge of only 40 Euro this is amazing considering the class of wine you can get and the difference in the botte price compared to here. They sell wine from 4.50 for an enrico serafino barbera di asti to 4500 a bottle of the blood of lucifers love child.

http://www.enotecavanni.com/enoteca-vanni-en.asp

If you ever have the opportunity to visit lucca you have to go here it is an aladins cave, literally as downstairs brances out into 4 or 5 underground tunnels of wine.

May I recommend 2 italian wines to try for anyone who has not tried italian other than cianti.
Barolo (red), there are many vinyards so I wont give a specific, but I love it good vintage is 2000 and 2004, the 2004 should be available and reasonably priced. This wine ages very well I feel it is like the bordeaux if italy. It comes from piedmonte.
Also from piedmonte is gavi (white) this is a really crisp white excellent day time wine. An are directly beside it is arneis and wimes from this region are equally good, o'briens have a gavi di gavi and also a couple of arneis.

Do you pay duty on the wines from Italy? I am not very well versed in Italian wines (though I do particularly like the Gavi di Gavi!) but would be interested in being able to buy from a good supplier.

_blank_

BeerNut wrote: »

Yes, it's excellent. A lot of people like London Pride too, though I'm not gone on it.

Also, Fullers Honeydew is lovely, and available in Tesco for 1.99

BeerNut

Des wrote: »

Also, Fullers Honeydew is lovely, and available in Tesco for 1.99

Each to their own

Murphyt

muckety wrote: »

Do you pay duty on the wines from Italy? I am not very well versed in Italian wines (though I do particularly like the Gavi di Gavi!) but would be interested in being able to buy from a good supplier.

I bought a case while in the shop and had it sent home by them, and I did not pay any extra duty. It was delivered by an post so you should not have to pay any customs.
I have just been looking at the site and the postage is 75 euro for ireland for a case, this is a little high unless you are getting good wines and you know the wine you are getting. i am going to have a look around for other sites and see if there are better delivery charges, in saying that though if you know what you are getting and its good wine then you are adding about a fiver to the price of a bottle and that would not be much for some of the wines they have.

By the way if you like gavi then try the arneis, o'briens have a couple in at the moment.

matrim

BeerNut wrote: »

Each to their own

I'd partly agree with this. I didn't find anything too bad about it but I found the it a bit bland with no real substance behind it.

A honey ale I liked was BeeWyched honey ale

Murphyt

Over the weekend a few wines were consumed due to the weather most were white. On Friday night though in a restaurant i had a bottle of red called The Musician cant remember where it was from (australia, argentina or south africa) anyway it is as instantly forgetable as its origin.

The whites were;
Sophie Bertin Sancerre from O'Briens at 12.95 at the moment, lovely crisp wine bargain at that price.
Malvira Roero Arneis also O'Briens and also 12.95 at the moment, a good arneis quite fruity.
I also had a bottle of Pouilly Fume from the wine buff, cant remember the name but I think it was the only one they do, I was looking for their sancerre which is outstanding but they were sold out, so I got the pouilly Fume as its the next best and it was beautifull, I think it was around 18 euro.
A couple of beers were consumed prior to these wines, I was glad to see the restaurant had fischers german lager, very nice and refreshing for a simple lager.
I also got a couple of O'Hara's red from Tesco as recommend by the Beer Nut and they were fantastic and went very well with a bit of BBQ as did the wines, I was sorry I only had the 2, but luckily I still had some bishops finger from an earlier adventure.

Wine_Guy

Murphyt wrote: »

Of course that sould not matter to the travelling, but like I said I will dig and post anything I find.
Well the weekend approaches and hopefully a couple of wines will be samples and I shall post any findings. Toodle oo.

check here for a definition of 'Bottleshock'...Also you could watch the film....

muckety wrote: »

Do you pay duty on the wines from Italy? I am not very well versed in Italian wines (though I do particularly like the Gavi di Gavi!) but would be interested in being able to buy from a good supplier.

You do not pay a duty on any wine, beer or cig's if you can prove they are for personal use, there are limits but they are huge...90 litres of wine etc

BeerNut wrote: »

Do you have a serious cellaring set-up? I'd always be very wary of buying really good wine since I doubt I can keep it in the conditions I'm told it needs.

A cool dark area, consistent temperature, with minimal vibration and movement...I'm luck enough to have a space under my staircase which fits the bill...

Hope this helps....

BeerNut

Wine_Guy wrote: »

You do not pay a duty on any wine, beer or cig's if you can prove they are for personal use, there are limits but they are huge...90 litres of wine etc

This only applies if you transport them yourself. If you're having them delivered, you are liable for Irish duty on them.

enda1

I got myself a wine fridge.

It holds 296 bottles and is for ageing, so there is just one temperature zone and carbon filters, no glass door etc. Perfect for what we need. It was the fridge of our local wine bar who went under about 6 months after setting up so got it for about half price and its been a char since! Here at the moment we have about 70 bottles averaging at about €20 from the source usually or from a shop in the appellation village. Almost everything is French with the exception of one Italian wine, one Spanish and a bottle of port.

I'd like to expand a bit the collection, moving to classic Italians and Spanish mainly. Quality is more important than price, but value is paramount of course. So some recommendation from boardsies? I can keep the wine for many years too as you can see, so gimme some advice please.

Thanks.

Murphyt

Enda1,

Sorry for the late reply I just got back from Italy.
So my italian recommendations are like this, I will only give type of wine and not maker as there are too many, plus if you spend around the 20Euro mark they will be good.

Barolo, top of the list.
Barbera d'alba,
Bardolino
Barbera d'asti
Chianti
Valpolicello
Amarone

Gavi (white)
Arneis (white)

These are all easily availbale in Ireland, The best year for Barolo is 2004 and you can keep it till at least 2014 and longer. 2004 is also a good year for most Italian wines.
For buying and drinking now and spending a little more money on, 1996, 1998 and 2000 are excellent years. As I have said before avoid 2002 like the plague and that is any Italian wine, just a bad year.
It is well worth searching the net for local wines from different areas in Italy and having some shipped. I can recommend montalcino, montapulciano and most lucchesi wines.
Some Italian wines are quite light such as Chianti and so can be chilled if preferred, then the likes of Amorone and Barolo can be very heavy (I don't mean in alcohol, although amarone and valpolicello ripasso can be strong in alcohol). Valpoliccello ripasso is a beautiful wine that is nearly as heavy and strong as Amarone but does not cost as much and so you can get good ones for average money.

Hope that helps a little, Sorry for not giving names and ratings but you can easily look them up. Just remember 2004.

the beer revolu

Murphyt wrote: »

Enda1,

Sorry for the late reply I just got back from Italy.
So my italian recommendations are like this, I will only give type of wine and not maker as there are too many, plus if you spend around the 20Euro mark they will be good.

Barolo, top of the list.
Barbera d'alba,
Bardolino
Barbera d'asti
Chianti
Valpolicello
Amarone

Gavi (white)
Arneis (white)

These are all easily availbale in Ireland, The best year for Barolo is 2004 and you can keep it till at least 2014 and longer. 2004 is also a good year for most Italian wines.
For buying and drinking now and spending a little more money on, 1996, 1998 and 2000 are excellent years. As I have said before avoid 2002 like the plague and that is any Italian wine, just a bad year.
It is well worth searching the net for local wines from different areas in Italy and having some shipped. I can recommend montalcino, montapulciano and most lucchesi wines.
Some Italian wines are quite light such as Chianti and so can be chilled if preferred, then the likes of Amorone and Barolo can be very heavy (I don't mean in alcohol, although amarone and valpolicello ripasso can be strong in alcohol). Valpoliccello ripasso is a beautiful wine that is nearly as heavy and strong as Amarone but does not cost as much and so you can get good ones for average money.

Hope that helps a little, Sorry for not giving names and ratings but you can easily look them up. Just remember 2004.

You forgot to mention Barberesco.
Same grape and neighbouring region as Barolo but cheaper!

Murphyt

the beer revolu wrote: »

You forgot to mention Barberesco.
Same grape and neighbouring region as Barolo but cheaper!

Ah yes I knew I forgot one of the B's, in fairness I have left out about 3,000 but Barberesco is a beauty and any wine using the nebbiolo grape will generally be good.