Bendy Busses vs Double Deckers

munchkin_utd

If I understand correctly, Dublin bus acquired some bendy busses ages ago to test them out and see if they suit their operations.

What happened with regards to the introduction of bendy busses in Dublin?
They have more capacity compared to double deckers where you cant stand upstairs, more seats "downstairs" (there is no upstairs!) so good for old people/ pregnant women/ women with kids, also having no upstairs is one less place for wee brats to hide whilst smoking etc.

Were they not persued because theres not enough on street parking downtown in Dublin for the longer vehicles to sit idly?
Or was it problems to cater for the vehicles in the maintenance depots?

Its interesting to see London abandon bendies, Ireland taking a similar stand, but on the continent they embrace the bendies with gusto.

KC61

There are 20 articulated buses in operation in Dublin, mainly now on the 4 and 4a.

They were purchased at the behest of the Dublin Transportation Office and not by choice by Dublin Bus.

However, no attempt was made by the local authorities to put in proper infrastructure for these vehicles, such as longer bus bays so that the entire bus could reach the kerb. The complete lack of planning involved meant that the buses were never used to their full potential.

I would enjoy them while they last as they are I understand to be withdrawn in the coming months.

schemingbohemia

One problem with them is that like the double deckers people don't use them properly so you have a load of people standing in the aisles blocking access to the rear of the buses so everyone assumes that the back is full, whereas like the double deckers there's nearly always seats available at the back of the bendys or upstairs on the double deckers.
I think the drivers should inform people that there are seats upstairs or at the back of the bus but that seldom happens - it also leads to drivers assuming that the bus is full and sailing pass bus stops whereas theres usually room.

Run_to_da_hills

They also pose a H&S risk to cyclists that share the same bus lanes because of their lengths. In Ireland they don't tend to use the rear doors again for safety reasons, this makes it awkward for people wanting to get on / off at the rear.

The only way I could see these working is on a Luas style system with prepaid tickets where the driver is not interfered with and all doors are opened and closed at once on a long bus platform. They would suit a straight line route such as an urban dual carriage way or a long thoroughfare.

the boss of me

Never saw the point in them myself. They take up twice the road space as a double decker but can only carry an extra 20 or 30 pax..

Having said that I've used them in Rome where there is a proper structure in place and they do work well. Over there they have three doors and drivers don't issue tickets so dwell times at bus stops are pretty fast.

Cool Mo D

KC61 wrote: »

However, no attempt was made by the local authorities to put in proper infrastructure for these vehicles, such as longer bus bays so that the entire bus could reach the kerb. The complete lack of planning involved meant that the buses were never used to their full potential.

Even normal double-decker Dublin buses regularly fail to reach the kerb, especially on 'bay' type bus stops, where the bus pulls in off the road. Mostly I think it's because the bays are built with not enough room to let the bus pull in, but it reflects a general lack of care around bus infrastructure (and things like cycle lanes), such as city centre bus stops that cannot handle multiple buses arriving at a stop at busy times without buses stopping away from the kerb, blocking the street, and things like taxis and vans, and long-distance coaches blocking bus stops and bus lanes throughout the day with no attempt being made to prevent this.

And this happens even after spending a lot of time rebuilding kerbs to allow step free access to buses.

Dublin city centre could do with a few facilities like this bus station in Liverpool that allows multiple buses to pull in at a dedicated facility parallel to the street, fill up, and go, without blocking themselves in.

Note that that bus station was put in as part of a big redevelopment in the city, very similar to what is planned for the Carlton site on O'Connell street. I notice we aren't getting any bus facilities with it though...

Keedowah

One problem I had with them was the driver wouldn't use the back door - you would have to make your way up through all the crowd to get to the front door - a total pain!

KC61

Keedowah wrote: »

One problem I had with them was the driver wouldn't use the back door - you would have to make your way up through all the crowd to get to the front door - a total pain!

That was principally because in many cases the rear of the bus was sticking out into the road as none of the bus bays were large enough to accomodate the full length of the bus as I pointed out above.

Slice

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Dublin city centre could do with a few facilities like this bus station in Liverpool that allows multiple buses to pull in at a dedicated facility parallel to the street, fill up, and go, without blocking themselves in

What ever happened to plans to build something similar by the Jervis Luas stop? There's a massive land bank sitting there unused.

KD345

the boss of me wrote: »

Never saw the point in them myself. They take up twice the road space as a double decker but can only carry an extra 20 or 30 pax..

I think they carry about 143 passengers, which is a fair bit more than the average double decker which holds around 96.

The bendy bus, when used correctly, is a great vehicle for transporting large numbers of people. Of course, this requires more bus priority, better road/kerb design and the use of more than one door. Unfortunately none of these factors exist in Dublin.

munchkin_utd

this bendy bus takes (up to) 165 passengers!!
thats about 60 seats with the other 105 standing!!
MAN Lions City GL Bendy Bus

Which got me thinking.
The one positive big about the bendy bus is the massive capacity due to passengers being able to stand along the length of the bus.
And the one negative aspect is the use of standing!!!

Dublin commuting isn't the same as on the continent where the bus is often a feeder service to something that doesnt get stuck in traffic, say like an underground or suburban train. On the continent you are normally standing for max 10 minutes before changing to something quicker and less congestion prone than a bus.

On the other hand, next to every bus in Dublin is gunning for an Lar with often gargantuan journey times for the relatively piddling distances involved. And no coordination with rail services.
So you'd really want to be sitting down for that!!

For moving as many seated passengers as possible the Double Decker seems to be king. i.e. the 3 axle busses in Dublin can shift an incredible 100 seated with 25 standing.
Alexander 3 Axle Double Decker

For the herculean hauls across Dublin city maybe the Double Decker isnt such a bad option after all! Sitting for an inordinate period of time in a bus in congestion is far superior than standing;) Which is maybe the thinking of Dublin bus too??

(connecting bus to rail in the suburbs and zipping into town past the traffic would be better again, but thats not an option if the existing rail is stretched to the limit and route/ capacity improvements are not yet online)

AlekSmart

What ever happened to plans to build something similar by the Jervis Luas stop? There's a massive land bank sitting there unused.

By all accounts the Great Depression has happened.

Again,the lack of any real Public Transport appreciation by the Central and Local Authorities meant that Bus Atha Cliath had to package this desirable Infrastructural development in a PPP`ish package.

The Bus Terminal was to be an "integral" part of a Hotel/Retail development which was to be a win/win situation for both Bus operator and commercial occupiers.

That was then.....this is now.

Last I heard was that the Hotelier lined up for the mainstay of the entire gig (In Irish Public Transport terms) had been experiencing difficulties and had postponed the start-up of their end of the project.

On mainland Europe one can be fairly certain that the Public Transport element of the project would have been the "Core" element with the "Commercial" stuff being overlaid on that.

So for now the Strand St Bus Terminal remains but a glint in some middle managers eye,a great pity too as the scale and simplicity of the Bus Terminal element was just about spot-on for the type of facilities Dublin City could so easily support. :P