Not telling insurance company about penalty points

colm_mcm

Friend of mine had an accident as a named driver on her husbands policy. she has 4 points and didn't declare them on being added to the policy.

She was in an own-fault accident last week in his car.

What are the implications for not declaring points, does it void the policy, or does the payout go down by the amount the policy would have gone up by had she declared the points?

Company is AIG/Chartis.

Please don't post if you're

* going to tell me she should have declared the points
* just using common sense to assume that what you think is how they deal with it
* going to tell me she's an idiot

Thanks in advance.

douglashyde

colm_mcm wrote: »

Friend of mine had an accident as a named driver on her husbands policy. she has 4 points and didn't declare them on being added to the policy.

She was in an own-fault accident last week.

What are the implications for not declaring points, does it void the policy, or does the payout go down by the amount the policy would have gone up by had she declared the points?

Company is AIG/Chartis.

Please don't post if you're

* going to tell me she should have declared the points
* just using common sense to assume that what you think is how they deal with it
* going to tell me she's an idiot

Thanks in advance.

It would void the payout.

She really should have declared the points, she is a bit of an idiot for not doing so - really she should just use her common sense and ring her insurance company and let them know what happened.

Anan1

I'd imagine it depends on the insurance company. I'm with Aviva - I think they say in the policy that they'd increase the excess to €2000 in that case. Whether they actually would or not is another question. Sorry I couldn't be more specific.;)

Edit: I'd be very surprised if they voided the policy - i'd imagine what I said earlier is a worst-case scenario. Still, only the ins co can tell you for sure.

colm_mcm

douglashyde wrote: »

It would void the payout.

Thanks for the reply, do you work in insurance, or how do you know it would void the policy?

BlackWizard

douglashyde wrote: »

She really should have declared the points, she is a bit of an idiot for not doing so - really she should just use her common sense and ring her insurance company and let them know what happened.

There is always one... :mad:

I dont know colm_mcm. Is there anyway you can ring the insurance company to find out?

biko

I'd say ring and ask "hypothetically".
4 points is usually max before premium goes up so should not be too much of a problem.

oldyouth

It is voidable by the Insurer for own damage if they decide to go down that route, it is their option. A lot of insurers would not amend their premium or decision to accept a risk at the threshold of 4 points at inception, so you may be lucky. If they feel it was an a deliberate attempt at deception, then they may well decline. At that stage, the driver (and policyholder) have an awful lot of extra declarations to make to potential insurers in the future

douglashyde

colm_mcm wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, do you work in insurance, or how do you know it would void the policy?

That is the way it is with my car Insurance company - Im not sure about other ones; I just assumed that they would all have the same policy in not declaring penalty points.

Henry Ford III

colm_mcm wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, do you work in insurance, or how do you know it would void the policy?

It could void the policy. Depends on the insurer. If 4 points would have meant a premium increase at proposal stage all the more so.

There's no doubt the principle of "uberrima fides" has been broken here imho.

p.s. I do work in the insurance business, but not motor.

3DataModem

Most insurance policies have a clause stating what happens if you have undeclared points. Usually policy voided or large excess at their discretion. They don't always go for voided as they prefer people with point to lie about points then not bother getting insured (as they pay either way).

In addition they will flag her as a high risk claimant when dealing with her about the claim as she is a proven fraudster.

paddy147

They will probably void the policy and therefore will have no cover/insurance.

When you are asked if you have any endorsements or penalty points and you say yes or no,you are commiting to and also entering into a legaly binding policy.

So if you say no,when the answer should be yes,you are making and providing knowingly false information,and the insurance company has every legal right to widthdraw your policy if its found out,or in the event of an RTA.

I know of a chap who was in this situation,now hes due before court for this matter,as the insurance would not cover him when he had an RTA as he gave false info to the insurance company when he was renewing his policy.Hes also being done by the gardai for not being legally covered aswell.


You reap what you sew.;)

CoDy1

AIG/Chartis definately don't accept drivers with more than 2 points, so in this case, it is completely at Chartis's descretion whether to cancel policy from inception or not. Is it through a broker? If so maybe they might be able to speak to the Company on your behalf.

They cannot refuse to pay the claim and leave the policy in force by law, so its all or nothing.

Yawns

First step would be to ring insurance and tell them straight out and hear it from them. They may void policy but I could imagine they would pay out a substantial lot less than what they would have been had there been points declared.

They will also hit ur premium for the renewal as it will be noted you did not inform them. This is all just my own opinon of course of what way it might play out and I could be hugely wrong on every count. I would imagine they would keep you as a customer if only to still make money in this day and age but would also increase your risk level for motor insurance.

thebiglad

They can void the policy if they show that having been declared the points would have altered their decision to provide cover or materially affected the premium (increase greater than 60%)

More likely they will seek to correct the premium and not deal with the claim until it has been paid.

Why do you think they will look for the licence anyhow? Besides, I have 2 points on my licence but the physical paper document is clean - unless they check with Shannon no way to know (my points are declared before anyone mentions it!)

Wouldn't be too concerned, but no point in mentioning it unless they specifically ask (if they do and again they deny it then things could get sticky).

Tipp Man

So when do your points actually become active for insurance?

On December 12th I was pulled over for speeding, 2 points in the post he said. I haven't received anything yet. My insurance is due for renewal in 3 weeks. Am I obliged to report these points although I haven't received notification yet??

biko

Until you receive the letter you cannot know for sure that you've received points in the system.
I would wait until I receive the letter before notifying the insurance company.

thebiglad

Tipp Man wrote: »

So when do your points actually become active for insurance?

On December 12th I was pulled over for speeding, 2 points in the post he said. I haven't received anything yet. My insurance is due for renewal in 3 weeks. Am I obliged to report these points although I haven't received notification yet??

They may not come so no point in mentioning it, if you have the penalty notice when actually you submit your renewal or take a quote - tell them.

I have been stopped and told points would follow(twice) still no sign - and that was over 2 years ago now. Only point I have got where through a Gatso van where it ticket is automated.

Stephen

Usually you would get the fixed penalty notice within a couple of weeks. I think you got away with it

Atomic Pineapple

Tipp Man wrote: »

So when do your points actually become active for insurance?

On December 12th I was pulled over for speeding, 2 points in the post he said. I haven't received anything yet. My insurance is due for renewal in 3 weeks. Am I obliged to report these points although I haven't received notification yet??

Not until you recieve the letter stating the number of points you have.

Stephen wrote: »

Usually you would get the fixed penalty notice within a couple of weeks. I think you got away with it

Can take anything up to 6 months.

@ Colm,

It's completely up to the insurance company as to what there policy is on not declaring penalty points, best bet is to ring them to find out.

unattendedbag

Tipp Man wrote: »

So when do your points actually become active for insurance?

On December 12th I was pulled over for speeding, 2 points in the post he said. I haven't received anything yet. My insurance is due for renewal in 3 weeks. Am I obliged to report these points although I haven't received notification yet??

No because the points have not been endorsed to your licence yet. You are not telling them lies by saying you have no points. Paying the fine and accepting the points means you are admitting to the offence. If you fight it in court and win then you wont be getting any points so technically you havent admitted to the offence yet.

dergside

To OP

A basic principle of insurance is Utmost Good Faith. Meaning, essentially, that you tell them the truth about anything they think might have an impact of their perception of risk in taking on the policy (i.e. the questions on the proposal form) and they use that information to calculate an appropriate premium, based on the risk.

In this case, the proposer didn't act with UGF, therefore the insurer didn't have all of the information they would reasonably need to calculate the risk they are insuring for.

In these circumstances the insurer would probably be within their rights to void the policy. They may not, but they would be within their rights to.

dergside

Tipp Man wrote: »

So when do your points actually become active for insurance?

On December 12th I was pulled over for speeding, 2 points in the post he said. I haven't received anything yet. My insurance is due for renewal in 3 weeks. Am I obliged to report these points although I haven't received notification yet??

At renewal, you should comment on the proposal that you have had a speeding offence (true) but that no points have yet been issued (also true).

I was in the same situation a few years ago and told them. They didn't load the premium in that case.