Learning digitally?

RMD

Right long story short I don't have the cash to be getting any half decent set-up so I was wondering what do you guys think about learning digitally? I'm thinking of buying a Midi controller like the Numark Omni Control (Seems to get very good reviews) which includes Traktor LE.

I'd also get a decent set of cans and when the time comes a pair of decent active speakers. The reason I want to go this route is that if it turns out DJing isn't for me, I only need to sell on 3 pieces of gear all which should be easy enough to shift. Also like this idea because I can essentially learn how to mix properly using Traktor, and if it turns out I do like DJing I can go on to buy 2 decent CDJs and a decent 4 chan mixer.

What you guys think of learning digitally? Bad? Good? Any help is appriciated, cheers lads.

jimi_t2

The best option for beginning full stop.

DJing digitally allows you as many effects as you'd like and as many decks as your comp and soundcard can support. The music is far cheaper, you'll never lose it, its always the first released and transportation is no longer an issue.

Thousands of free resources yada yada yada....

I can see CD decks disappearing almost entirely in the next decade or so.

Go for an all-in-one soundcard and interface. I use the Xponent and would highly recommend it and the accompanying software, Torq. Traktor LE ain't up to much at all.

There's a number of headphones under 20 quid on the highstreet that'd do you (Philips SHP2000 are plasticy nonsense, but are perfectly acceptable for mixing at home).

Active monitors will set you back 150 secondhand for a reasonable pair. Esi Near 03s, The cheaper M-Audios or KRK Rockits will be the ones cropping up in Ireland the most. I'd take the ESIs over anything at that end of the scale.

RMD

jimi_t2 wrote: »

The best option for beginning full stop.

DJing digitally allows you as many effects as you'd like and as many decks as your comp and soundcard can support. The music is far cheaper, you'll never lose it, its always the first released and transportation is no longer an issue.

Thousands of free resources yada yada yada....

I can see CD decks disappearing almost entirely in the next decade or so.

Go for an all-in-one soundcard and interface. I use the Xponent and would highly recommend it and the accompanying software, Torq. Traktor LE ain't up to much at all.

There's a number of headphones under 20 quid on the highstreet that'd do you (Philips SHP2000 are plasticy nonsense, but are perfectly acceptable for mixing at home).

Active monitors will set you back 150 secondhand for a reasonable pair. Esi Near 03s, The cheaper M-Audios or KRK Rockits will be the ones cropping up in Ireland the most. I'd take the ESIs over anything at that end of the scale.

Cheers for the in-put man. Ye I know all about the gear, just want to get opinions from people with experience on whether learning digitally first is a good idea or not.

Ye the Numark Omni comes integrated with a soundcard and comes with Traktor LE anyway, I'll look into Torq anyway and check it out. Ye for cans I was thinking of getting the Sennheiser 205's since they're only 40 quid and get great reviews. I'll look more into a pair active monitors once the time comes.

I like the look of Xponent, I'll do some research and decide what I want to go with in the next few weeks.

Cheers man

jimi_t2

RMD wrote: »

Cheers for the in-put man. Ye I know all about the gear, just want to get opinions from people with experience on whether learning digitally first is a good idea or not.

You can teach a monkey to beatmatch and thats the only transferable skill-set you're neglecting when starting off digitally. In terms of structuring your sets, getting into the nitty gritty of music theory and avoiding peaks in volume and all that, you'll forget more in a month digital DJing then you learnt in 6 months at Vinyl.

If you've eyes and ears and are remotely musically inclined, it'll be the most intuitive way of getting to grips with it all

cian1500ww

I've been learning with the exact same setup as you are looking at getting. I find it brilliant way to get into DJing and learning how to mix properly. It's great for messing about with and you've got everything you need. The only real downside, I find, is that beatmatching is very simple once the beat grids are setup properly in Traktor, it's not really a downside when you think about it but if you ever move to a non-digital setup it would take a while to adjust.

Executive Steve

jimi_t2 wrote: »

The music is far cheaper, you'll never lose it, its always the first released and transportation is no longer an issue.

Bit of a myth that, if you're buying WAV off Beatport you're not paying much less than you are for a vinyl really.

Most labels I'd buy off (if they sell digital) don't sell digital until a week or two after the full "proper" release (as in not the whites) hits the shops, so basically you're paying almost the same amount to get something that you can delete by mistake and can't get until up to 6 weeks after everyone else has been caning it, if it's even available for sale in the first place.

Add to that the fact that the mastering on Digital labels (if they even bother) is generally piss-poor or at least of a highly variable quality (far more diverse than even the differences between pressings that you get between different vinyl manufacturers / mastering houses)...

You can't even roll a spliff on the back of an MP3...

tman

Executive Steve wrote: »

Bit of a myth that, if you're buying WAV off Beatport you're not paying much less than you are for a vinyl really.

Huh?
You're looking at a tenner delivered for most vinyl, but a couple of wavs will cost less than half that. I guess if they're pressing 4 tracks per record your theory runs true though.

If you go the CD route, you're getting 10 tracks for a tenner... Sorted!

Executive Steve

And I'm to not trying to start a tired "vinyl versus digital" debate at all here, there's LOADS of great things about digital; storage isn't an issue (good luck moving house when you have 1800 records in your living room for example), you can pick up enough skills to rock a house party in a matter of weeks if not days (as opposed to months if not years), you can steal all your music, equipment is cheap enough and you can use it for other stuff as well (your laptop and speakers anyway). Flying around to gigs overseas with records is a nightmare - having to fit three days worth of socks, underwear and records into the same bag and still stay under the Ryanair limit isn't much fun at all, nor is getting backpain from lugging a big bag of vinyl around the place.

Executive Steve

tman wrote: »

Huh?
You're looking at a tenner delivered for most vinyl, but a couple of wavs will cost less than half that. I guess if they're pressing 4 tracks per record your theory runs true though.

If you go the CD route, you're getting 10 tracks for a tenner... Sorted!

Yeah, but CD's are pretty much irrelevant because the only stuff that gets released CD is either on an unmixed compilation CD with loads of shortened versions of tunes licensed from smaller labels well after they blew up and EVERYONE from the big dogs down the lads at the house party in Santry have rinsed the bejaysus out of them, OR - even worse - it's an "album" where the producer feels the need to pad out two or three decent tunes with a load of meandering experimental horse****e that you'll never get any use out of.

Also, good luck selling a second hand MP3. I'd be very surprised if most of my records were still worth even what I paid for them, but I know It's pretty likely I can at the very least get a euro for them, and considerably more for a few selected rare bits and bobs here and there.

It's not even (technically at least) legal in this country to sell a storage device with preloaded media. (this is why ads for iPods on the Adverts.ie "for sale" board used to have to specify that the owner would hit the "restore factory settings" yoke and wipe the memory)

jimi_t2

Executive Steve wrote: »

It's not even (technically at least) legal in this country to sell a storage device with preloaded media. )

Its not (technically) legal to load a storage device with preloaded media if you own the original either.

In fact, CD-Burners, iPods and the ilk are prohibited (rather than criminalised) under Irish Law. Don't have the necessary statute to hand obviously, but our IT laws are hilariously arcane.

No wonder that **** up of a high court judge ordered that IP addresses didn't constitute priviliged information when they are in the possession of IRMA. Wonder how many brandies above in Carton House that one cost somebody.

electrogrimey

Executive Steve wrote: »

You can't even roll a spliff on the back of an MP3...

:pac:

I'm a digital DJ, and I accept that vinyl is a much better format than mp3. If I could (and had the money to) have some kind of set-up that used vinyls with Traktor then I'd choose that in a second (I don't mean scratch, I mean real vinyls).

But anyway, picking up Traktor LE is what we advice everyone that comes on here asking how to start to do. If you do love it, then you can either go CD, vinyl, or upgrade you digital set-up.

tman

Executive Steve wrote: »

Yeah, but CD's are pretty much irrelevant because the only stuff that gets released CD is either on an unmixed compilation CD with loads of shortened versions of tunes licensed from smaller labels well after they blew up and EVERYONE from the big dogs down the lads at the house party in Santry have rinsed the bejaysus out of them, OR - even worse - it's an "album" where the producer feels the need to pad out two or three decent tunes with a load of meandering experimental horse****e that you'll never get any use out of.

Depends on how niche the scene you're into is really... All of the labels that I support put out CDs containing 9-10 new tracks from various artists, which haven't been released anywhere, and digital downloads usually come out 1-2 months afterwards.
Sorry for dragging the thread down that tired path, just couldn't resist...
I can't even figure out if you're for or against digi!

Scubadevils

I really do get the whole idea of the benefits of digital and when I can afford it I'll definitely add a digital solution to my current setup... I could never though replace the feeling of arriving home to a delivery consisting of a box of vinyl like I did tonight, heaven!

Executive Steve

The only real argument against digital is the one that's so bloody elitist that I generally physically recoil from making it, and that's the argument that says that since it takes so much more time and effort and expense and hassle to get to the stage where you're able to get a solid set together on vinyl it weeds out all the heads who probably shouldn't be doing it in the first place.

Worth thinking about.

:pac:

Scubadevils

There's no doubt about it, digital is the natural progression for music and as such for DJs... for as long as vinyl exists, there will be the for/against argument but I think for anyone starting out now it makes absolute sense to go digital and has been said if they enjoy it and want to go with the 'hands-on' experience of vinyl, start saving the pennies.

RMD

Executive Steve wrote: »

The only real argument against digital is the one that's so bloody elitist that I generally physically recoil from making it, and that's the argument that says that since it takes so much more time and effort and expense and hassle to get to the stage where you're able to get a solid set together on vinyl it weeds out all the heads who probably shouldn't be doing it in the first place.

Worth thinking about.

:pac:

I know exactly where you're coming from. With free trials and all that out there, everyone seems to be having a shot of it. I'd love to start off on vinyl or with some CDJs, but I just don't have the money for it unfortunately.

Executive Steve

Yeah - this is definitely true, of course.

It's worth pointing out that it's only really the DnB and Dubstep heads in Dublin who still cling on to the whole vinyl thing so tightly. Also worth pointing out that to this day I've still only ever seen one local DnB head play a set of tunes off a laptop and a controller, and that was just the once. Maybe it's different with other genres though.

Executive Steve

RMD wrote: »

I know exactly where you're coming from. With free trials and all that out there, everyone seems to be having a shot of it. I'd love to start off on vinyl or with some CDJs, but I just don't have the money for it unfortunately.

Tuck into the mixing, sure no matter how you're doing it you're still playing music and that's what matters; just make damn sure you're playing it as creatively as you possibly can, otherwise it's just a shortcut. (And by no means do I mean that you should feel the need to be constantly raping the mix with a million and one glitchy FX edits and flanges and filter sweeps etc).

A V A

i know this is off topic butif someone starting out with learning how to mix digitally is it ok for them to get traktor first and start out with that ?? i have bought the uc33e controller and i plan on buying traktor pro (nearly have the money for it) and was going to use that i can mix on cdjs ok (my mate said i was ok for some one that doesnt have decks)

ED E

I'd try a few free trials first before splashing, nothing to loose.

A V A

i just got the trial der and its no letting me map my uc33e controller??is it just beacuse its a trial??

dar83

So between the Numark Omni Control and the M-Audio Torq Exponent, which one would you more experienced guys recommend? I've been looking at them both myself recently.

Cost isn't reall an issue, the Numark works out about €50 cheaper, but if buying one I'd get the better of the two even if it was slightly more expensive.

Cheers.

jtsuited

Executive Steve wrote: »

(And by no means do I mean that you should feel the need to be constantly raping the mix with a million and one glitchy FX edits and flanges and filter sweeps etc).

In an ideal world, Richie Hawtin would read and heed this advice.

eeloe

I had the xponent and I was using it with traktor, and to be honest, I wouldn't reccomend it, it's very big and hard to transport!

It's not bus powered so you'll need to find two spare plug sockets in a clubs Dj box, which is hard enough!

jimi_t2

dar83 wrote: »

So between the Numark Omni Control and the M-Audio Torq Exponent, which one would you more experienced guys recommend? I've been looking at them both myself recently.

Cost isn't reall an issue, the Numark works out about €50 cheaper, but if buying one I'd get the better of the two even if it was slightly more expensive.

Cheers.

Software alone would say the Xponent w/Torq, if you're planning not to pirate Traktor immediately.

Reasonably sure that the soundcard in the Xponent has a lower noise floor. I specced them out side by side a year ago and the Xponent came up top on every count. I'd advise doing the same

One lovely thing about the Xponent is that it has an X/Y trackpad on it which can be used as a mouse pointer device and there's a software powered volume meter. You'll spend a bit less time looking like you're playing solitaire during a gig that way which is always a slight concern with digital DJs starting off. Also means that you can mount your laptop somewhere a bit more appropriate in the DJ box.

I had the xponent and I was using it with traktor, and to be honest, I wouldn't reccomend it, it's very big and hard to transport!

Still a LOT smaller than 2x1210s or CDJs.

It's a bit big alright, but thats because everything is properly laid out and BACKLIT. The buttons also glow briefly when you hit them. It's no bigger than about 2'' tall.

A WiiFit sports bag for that balance board is supposed to fit one perfectly.

It's not bus powered so you'll need to find two spare plug sockets in a clubs Dj box, which is hard enough!

Bus powered audio devices w/control surfaces give me the heebie-jeebies and tend to lead to dropouts in this pricerange.

ED E

jimi_t2 wrote: »

One lovely thing about the Xponent is that it has an X/Y trackpad on it which can be used as a mouse pointer device and there's a software powered volume meter. You'll spend a bit less time looking like you're playing solitaire during a gig that way which is always a slight concern with digital DJs starting off. Also means that you can mount your laptop somewhere a bit more appropriate in the DJ box.

The Omni has a centre knob for browsing, other than that you shouldnt really need a pointing device. If you were to be search for extra songs to add to your playlist then you'll be using they keyboard anyways.

jimi_t2 wrote: »

Bus powered audio devices w/control surfaces give me the heebie-jeebies and tend to lead to dropouts in this pricerange.

The 50V is there either way whether data is streaming or not, so bus powered is a huge advantage. BTW, Xone D series arent cheap, but are bus powered, so that point doesnt really hold.


OP: Try find somewhere that you can get a feel for them, then pick the one that feels the most intuitive to you.

jimi_t2

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

The 50V is there either way whether data is streaming or not, so bus powered is a huge advantage.

+5v, and AFAIK if you're using other bus devices it mightn't get powered properly. Thats been my experience anyway - there's something to that effect in the readme of most audio interfaces IIRC.

BTW, Xone D series arent cheap, but are bus powered, so that point doesnt really hold.

Obviously A+H stuff and that pedigree just get on and work. Its the stuff in the cheaper priceranges like the omni and xponent that you have to be concerned about.

But yeah, if you can OP, obviously do a side by side comparison. I can't think of anywhere in Ireland that you'd have that luxury though.