Hit an unaccompanied Learner

Shmee

So the other day i shunted an unaccompanied learner driver. no damage at all to my car but now she's saying she wants me to pay 1300 euro to fix her car. I know the accident was pretty much my fault, and id be happy to pay for some of it but i cant stretch as far as 1300 for some minor damage that is barely noticable.

So my query is, is she actually insured when unaccompanied? Have i got any leverage in this dispute?

Eoin

Yes, she was insured. If she had hit you, then maybe her insurance company would be coming after her, but she didn't so they won't. Either way, it would have nothing to do with you. If you have NCB protection, then your premium probably won't be affected (that's a small settlement amount), but you'd be pretty much at their mercy for the next few hours. I'm afraid you'll just have to suck it up.

starfish12

she is insured, and if you were at fault for the accident you have to pay up - be sure to get an actual breakdown of the costs from her if you decide not to claim from your insurance company.

Danbo!

Shmee wrote: »

So the other day i shunted an unaccompanied learner driver. no damage at all to my car but now she's saying she wants me to pay 1300 euro to fix her car. I know the accident was pretty much my fault, and id be happy to pay for some of it but i cant stretch as far as 1300 for some minor damage that is barely noticable.

So my query is, is she actually insured when unaccompanied? Have i got any leverage in this dispute?

Yes she is insured, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't matter if it was your fault, its your insurance that covers it.

Rear end shunts can look fairly minor from a quick glance, but can cause some fairly big damage to crumple zones at the back, and 1300 doesn't sound too off the wall to be honest.

MidlandsM

Your fault, you need to fix her car.
Be careful here, if you antagonise her, you could see a personal injury claim coming your way.

cruizer101

If you can't afford it go through your insurance. That's exactly why you pay insurance to cover for costs you can't afford. Might be no harm in mentioning to them she was learner on her own, though I doubt will make any difference if you were fully at fault.

thebiglad

Shmee wrote: »

So the other day i shunted an unaccompanied learner driver. no damage at all to my car but now she's saying she wants me to pay 1300 euro to fix her car. I know the accident was pretty much my fault, and id be happy to pay for some of it but i cant stretch as far as 1300 for some minor damage that is barely noticable.

So my query is, is she actually insured when unaccompanied? Have i got any leverage in this dispute?

You did it, time to pay up - even if she was uninsured and untaxed etc you would still have to pay up - it would be a seperate matter for the Garda if she was prosecuted for driving offences - what you have is a civil matter and the legal situation barely enters.

Doubt AGS will be too interested in an unaccompanied L driver so you have no leverage.

If you cannot afford it, let your insurance company sort it out.

KamiKazi

You hit her. You would have hit her regardless of who was in the car with her.

Stop trying to wiggle out of paying for the damage that you caused.

ha-ya-said-what

If you don't want to go through the insurance & feel the price is too much you could ask her to allow you to get an estimate done to compare it with hers, if yours comes back in the same region & you can't afford it you'll have to go through the insurance.

As said by one person here shunts can look minor but bring with them a world of damage that you wouldn't see from standing there looking at it, an unaccompanied driver wrote off a 00 car outside here with a "shunt" ... quickest sale of a car ever without any haggling!

PCPhoto

ask her to get 3 quotes (at least one from a garage of your choice) ..... then choose which one you will pay.

its possible that she wants the bumper replaced (or at least the money that it would cost) ... you hit the back of her, unless she was looking for it and you can prove it - you dont have much to argue.

Max Power1

Shmee wrote: »

So the other day i shunted an unaccompanied learner driver. no damage at all to my car but now she's saying she wants me to pay 1300 euro to fix her car. I know the accident was pretty much my fault, and id be happy to pay for some of it but i cant stretch as far as 1300 for some minor damage that is barely noticable.

So my query is, is she actually insured when unaccompanied? Have i got any leverage in this dispute?

I queryed this with the IIF recently and they advised that, once the party disclosed the fact that they posessed a learner permit when applying for insurance then the party is insured - even if driving unaccompanied.

I will note however, that the matter is currently under review as the difference between a "permit" and a "license" may at a future date invalidate all insurance held by learners.

slimjimmc

So that you are aware, just because the damage is barely noticable to you do not assume the damage is minor. Modern plastic bumpers usually spring back to their original shape and can conceal damage to the bumper itself and to panels/members behind it. The other driver is entitled to have her car returned to it's previously undamaged state before you hit it and unfortunately that can be expensive.

bazz26

ha-ya-said-what wrote: »

If you don't want to go through the insurance & feel the price is too much you could ask her to allow you to get an estimate done to compare it with hers, if yours comes back in the same region & you can't afford it you'll have to go through the insurance.

Doesn't matter how many cheaper quotes the OP gets as they have no say in who carries out the repair work. If the OP is not happy with the quotes for repairing the damage then let his/her insurance company handle it.

PCPhoto

bazz26 wrote: »

Doesn't matter how many cheaper quotes the OP gets as they have no say in who carries out the repair work. If the OP is not happy with the price of repairing the damage then let his/her insurance company handle it.

there has to be a happy medium - the "injured party" could be getting quotes from a local garage and asking them to add on an extra couple of hundred ?

similarly the OP could get quotes from a local garage and ask for spurious parts - cheapest quote possible.

so thats why I suggested 3 quotes at least one of which would be a garage of the OP's choice.

KamiKazi

Max Power1 wrote: »

I queryed this with the IIF recently and they advised that, once the party disclosed the fact that they posessed a learner permit when applying for insurance then the party is insured - even if driving unaccompanied.

I will note however, that the matter is currently under review as the difference between a "permit" and a "license" may at a future date invalidate all insurance held by learners.

IIF?

MarkN

KamiKazi wrote: »

IIF?

Irish Insurance Federation.

Shmee

Appreciate the replies.

That's fair enough, I just wanted to know where i stood. Thnk il just go get a quote myself and if things aren't any better contact the insurance co. It just baffled me because her bloody car isn't worth a whole more than 1300... And that's not an exageration. Ah well... Life experience and all that.

kildarelad

Appreciate the replies.

That's fair enough, I just wanted to know where i stood. Thnk il just go get a quote myself and if things aren't any better contact the insurance co. It just baffled me because her bloody car isn't worth a whole more than 1300... And that's not an exageration. Ah well... Life experience and all that.

If the price of repair goes over half what the car is worth then the insurance will want to write the car off.So let the insurance fight it out with her they will probably get the repair bill down a bit

bmw535d

kildarelad wrote: »

If the price of repair goes over half what the car is worth then the insurance will want to write the car off.So let the insurance fight it out with her they will probably get the repair bill down a bit

in that case they would give her the book value of the car and she would end up with say 2500 euro in her pocket as they tend to overprice the car so they get more in vrt,

1300 euro is defently not asking for to much,im assuming she will need a new bumper because its probably cracked, this will also need resprayed to the cars colour, this usually never matches the rest of the car so id be fumming if you started complaining about paying up.

just pay up no if's or but's,

Mr Benevolent

Shmee wrote: »

Appreciate the replies.

That's fair enough, I just wanted to know where i stood. Thnk il just go get a quote myself and if things aren't any better contact the insurance co. It just baffled me because her bloody car isn't worth a whole more than 1300... And that's not an exageration. Ah well... Life experience and all that.

Whatever you do, go though your insurance company. Don't just give her the cash or something silly like that.

Eoin

Is the insurance company's book value and the Revenue OMSP the same thing? I would have thought the revenue would value cars far higher than an insurance company would.

Either way, I'd just let the insurance company sort it out. When there's no personal injury claim involved, a few hundred either way won't make much of a difference either way.

Shmee

KamiKazi wrote: »

You hit her. You would have hit her regardless of who was in the car with her.

Stop trying to wiggle out of paying for the damage that you caused.

Yep, course i would have. Never implied i wouldnt have hit her if someone else was there. Im a man of logic and i aint wigglin nowhere. As i said, i just wanted to see where i stood. Ive no beef paying her at all, she seemed like a sweet girl. First thing i did before looking at the car was make sure she was ok. Poor thing was scared out of her wits.

Anyway, hands back at 10 and 2 for me

Thanks again for those of you with constructive advice.

Drake66

Max Power1 wrote: »

I queryed this with the IIF recently and they advised that, once the party disclosed the fact that they posessed a learner permit when applying for insurance then the party is insured - even if driving unaccompanied.

I will note however, that the matter is currently under review as the difference between a "permit" and a "license" may at a future date invalidate all insurance held by learners.

Well whether she held valid insurance at the time is pretty superfluous in this situation in any case. The OP was the negligent party here and the injured party would be claiming off his insurance for the damaged caused; if the claim isn't settled privately between the two.

Max Power1

Drake66 wrote: »

Well whether she held valid insurance at the time is pretty superfluous in this situation in any case. The OP was the negligent party here and the injured party would be claiming off his insurance for the damaged caused; if the claim isn't settled privately between the two.

Possibly, Possibly not, superflous. But it was mentioned on thread as a reason to avoid pay out by the OP.

AFAIK if the injured party had no insurance they wouldnt be able to claim from the OP's insurance? I could be wrong on that note though.

cian1500ww

Our '09 Avensis was rear ended a while back, other driver paid up in full. Cost was around 400 for a respray of the bumper and repair of the dents in it.

jpfahy

Be very careful handing over your own money for damage to her car. She can accept that then at a later stage make a claim from your insurance for personal injury. I've seen this happen.
If you hand money over, get her to sign a disclaimer stating that the payment is in full and final settlement of any claim whatsoever in relation to the incident.

kasper

had a simular case myself was rear ended thankfully me and my passanger were not hurt ,other driver paid cash and got me to sign a piece of paper saying it was the full and final ammount

Shmee

Shmee wrote: »

So the other day i shunted an unaccompanied learner driver. no damage at all to my car but now she's saying she wants me to pay 1300 euro to fix her car. I know the accident was pretty much my fault, and id be happy to pay for some of it but i cant stretch as far as 1300 for some minor damage that is barely noticable.

So my query is, is she actually insured when unaccompanied? Have i got any leverage in this dispute?

Stop beihaving like an arse hole and pay up, if I was her I'd go through your insurance so you'd get a propor seeing to at next renewal.

Eoin

No more of that./

PCPhoto

PCPhoto wrote: »

ask her to get 3 quotes (at least one from a garage of your choice) ..... then choose which one you will pay.

.

The OP has no right whatsoever to dictate where the lady gets her car fixed, she is the inconvenienced party here. She would be well entitled to hit him for a rental car etc too if she was so inclined.

Eoin

RoverJames wrote: »

The OP has no right whatsoever to dictate where the lady gets her car fixed, she is the inconvenienced party here. She would be well entitled to hit him for a rental car etc too if she was so inclined.

I'd agree totally with that - I would be very slow to go with the cheapest guy that the person who hit me could find.

As I said, if it ends up that the claim won't include any personal injury, then a few hundred quid either way in the final total will make very little difference.

Years ago I was driving home from college and a car rolled out of a bank car park and on to a main road and hit my car. Lady runs out in a panic from the carpark. Oh so sorry bla bla bla, she admitted liability (obviously) and gave me her details. At the time I had a 10 year old car so wasn't going to go OTT on the repairs, 2nd hand indicator lens, some trim, panel beating and spray painting (mates rates) came to Ir£240 iirc. Rang her and she said no probs, following day she rings back and says lads she is working with reckon the price is very high for the damage she had done and also she queried was I on a first provisional (had L plates up and was alone in the car). I told her that I would be going getting more expensive quotes and going through her insurance if that was her attitude, some people are just muppets.

EL_Loco

RoverJames wrote: »

The OP has no right whatsoever to dictate where the lady gets her car fixed, she is the inconvenienced party here. She would be well entitled to hit him for a rental car etc too if she was so inclined.

on the flip side neither has she the right to pluck a figure out of the air. You would pay the garage invoice, and not some cash in hand settlement.

EPM

OP - for your own sake if you are going to pay it let the insurance company cover it and then pay them back. This will cover you if she tries anything. And it shouldn't affect your insurance afterwards either.

Vertakill

What I don't understand is how the OP's car can be undamaged, yet the 'victim' has 1300 euro worth of damage? What was she driving? A shopping trolley?

Sounds like she's gone home and has been 'advised' by a boyfriend or some friends who've explained how she could make a quick buck out of this.

If she won't budge on the 1300, I'd consult my insurance company and if you decide to use them, they'll no doubt want the damage assessed (due to the costliness) and you'd be surprised how that 1300, magically, shrinks into something more reasonable.

If you got NCB protection you're laughing.

Eoin

Vertakill wrote: »

What I don't understand is how the OP's car can be undamaged, yet the 'victim' has 1300 euro worth of damage? What was she driving? A shopping trolley?.

I don't think it's that strange; I've seen a few similar accidents where the person being hit from behind took the brunt of the damage.

Anan1

jpfahy wrote: »

Be very careful handing over your own money for damage to her car. She can accept that then at a later stage make a claim from your insurance for personal injury. I've seen this happen.
If you hand money over, get her to sign a disclaimer stating that the payment is in full and final settlement of any claim whatsoever in relation to the incident.

This is very poor advice. What would most likely happen is that she'd tell the OP to get lost, would let her insurance deal with the matter, and would have no further scruples about claiming for personal injuries.

Eoin

Anan1 wrote: »

This is very poor advice. What would most likely happen is that she'd tell the OP to get lost, would let her insurance deal with the matter, and would have no further scruples about claiming for personal injuries.

But do you think it would be wise to admit liability, pay up from your own pocket without any sort of guarantee that this is the end of it? The insurance company would make her sign the same thing when they settle it.

@goat2 - the indignation has been done already, and I think the OP knows he's in the wrong.

goat2

eoin wrote: »

But do you think it would be wise to admit liability, pay up from your own pocket without any sort of guarantee that this is the end of it? The insurance company would make her sign the same thing when they settle it.

@goat2 - the indignation has been done already, and I think the OP knows he's in the wrong.

sorry
but this happened me once, my car was wrecked to the tune of four thousand, i was on my way with a child in car, we got a bad bumping, seatbelt burns, sore neck, was on important errand, the fellow who hit me was having an nct, that was the end of it for the two of us, but in my case the person did not ask questions, we let his insurance and the garage do the work,
it was an auful inconvenience, as i had to ask someone else to stop what they were doing and take care of us and the business i was about to do,
i had to go without my car for a forthnite
guess i know from experience
but if the person who damaged my car said anything to lay burden on me, i would have lost it.

Anan1

eoin wrote: »

But do you think it would be wise to admit liability, pay up from your own pocket without any sort of guarantee that this is the end of it? The insurance company would make her sign the same thing when they settle it.

@goat2 - the indignation has been done already, and I think the OP knows he's in the wrong.

Personally, i'd let the insurance company deal with it and then decide whether or not to reimburse them and keep my NCB. The ins co won't (and can't) make her sign any guarantee that this is the end of it - she may have injuries that only manifest months down the line. IMO, the best way to reduce the likelihood of a PI claim is to be decent and straight about having her car repaired to her satisfaction. That way if she's borderline she might feel bad and not go ahead with it.

goat2

Anan1 wrote: »

Personally, i'd let the insurance company deal with it and then decide whether or not to reimburse them and keep my NCB. The ins co won't (and can't) make her sign any guarantee that this is the end of it - she may have injuries that only manifest months down the line. IMO, the best way to reduce the likelihood of a PI claim is to be decent and straight about having her car repaired to her satisfaction. That way if she's borderline she might feel bad and not go ahead with it.

she has 3 yrs from day of accident to make a claim on personal injury

fortuneteller

I really feel for you here, That driver should not have been there in the 1st place.You wont get much sympathy from the clowns on here that are telling you to be happy she`s not claiming more...I just wish people with nothing helpful to say or positive would desist from posting.;)

Hooch

PCPhoto wrote: »

there has to be a happy medium - the "injured party" could be getting quotes from a local garage and asking them to add on an extra couple of hundred ?

similarly the OP could get quotes from a local garage and ask for spurious parts - cheapest quote possible.

so thats why I suggested 3 quotes at least one of which would be a garage of the OP's choice.

goat2 wrote: »

she has 3 yrs from day of accident to make a claim on personal injury

Two years isnt it now...??

Three quotes is the best way to go.....at least it gets some idea of the figure. Although the injuried party can pick the most expensive if they want!

thebiglad

fortuneteller wrote: »

I really feel for you here, That driver should not have been there in the 1st place.You wont get much sympathy from the clowns on here that are telling you to be happy she`s not claiming more...I just wish people with nothing helpful to say or positive would desist from posting.;)

Lets follow your logic...

It is ok to hit a cyclist without lights then???

A person in breach of any law will be entitled to claim - the same applies to rear-ending a drink driver, as I said in earlier post it is for the legal system to sort out any other aspect.

goat2

nice guy always wrote: »

Two years isnt it now...??

Three quotes is the best way to go.....at least it gets some idea of the figure. Although the injuried party can pick the most expensive if they want!

i apologise
i did not know
had heard a few yrs ago, law changed, no harm

Eoin

Anan1 wrote: »

Personally, i'd let the insurance company deal with it and then decide whether or not to reimburse them and keep my NCB. The ins co won't (and can't) make her sign any guarantee that this is the end of it - she may have injuries that only manifest months down the line. IMO, the best way to reduce the likelihood of a PI claim is to be decent and straight about having her car repaired to her satisfaction. That way if she's borderline she might feel bad and not go ahead with it.

I would absolutely let the insurance company deal with it, but I thought that something was signed by the victim to say the claim was settled.

CaraFawn

Personally I see no problem with asking 3 quotes from different garages, we all know how those things work and how prices can easily be inflated, especially when you are blonde (ask me how I know :rolleyes:).

1300 euro for a new bumper sounds quit excessive, even on an expensive car.

Now can someone explain how come she is insured if by law (If I am not mistaken) she is not autorised to drive alone? I don't get that...

Eoin

It might not just be the bumper. Plastic bumper skins can pop out back into place after a crash, and hide a lot of damage.

CaraFawn wrote:

Now can someone explain how come she is insured if by law (If I am not mistaken) she is not autorised to drive alone? I don't get that...

She just is, it seems. I think it would be horribly unfair if the situation was reversed and an innocent driver was hit by a learner driver whose insurance wouldn't be valid.

jpfahy

Anan1 wrote: »

This is very poor advice. What would most likely happen is that she'd tell the OP to get lost, would let her insurance deal with the matter, and would have no further scruples about claiming for personal injuries.

Very poor advice - not
If the carrot of a wad of cash is dangled, some people will jump at it and sign the disclaimer, possibly regretting it later when they realise they could have taken a case for personal injury and got a lot more.
Devious people will try the 'accept the cash then stick in the injury claim' trick because it means they can get their car fixed straight away and can then sit back for the long haul that is a personal injury claim.

MidlandsM

jpfahy wrote: »

Very poor advice - not
If the carrot of a wad of cash is dangled, some people will jump at it and sign the disclaimer, possibly regretting it later when they realise they could have taken a case for personal injury and got a lot more.
Devious people will try the 'accept the cash then stick in the injury claim' trick because it means they can get their car fixed straight away and can then sit back for the long haul that is a personal injury claim.

JP,

Your advice is flawed.
If the injured party signs a disclaimer - its totally worthless, they can legally lodge a claim anytime within 2 years. The disclaimer does NOT restrain them from doing so.

L1011

Vertakill wrote: »

What I don't understand is how the OP's car can be undamaged, yet the 'victim' has 1300 euro worth of damage? What was she driving? A shopping trolley?

1300 to one car, nothing to the other is entirely possible, albeit only in some circumstances. LWB Transit vs. my previous Panda:

Transit needed a new front reg plate
My Panda needed 1100 quid of work/hire car. Main dealer admittedly... Bumper was torn, slam panel behind damaged, etc.

Other parties insurer in that case also just trusted the garage estimate and did a direct payment, spoke to them once and never saw or heard from them again...