Electric Fence problem

millertime78

I have a fence working off the mains and the beeper tester confirms there is current running through it at all points in the fence ( about 1500m). The think is it doesn't give off a shock. I only noticed this when a calf went under it the other evening no bother and when I touched it myself no effect:eek:. I've checked to see if its earthing anywhere and nothing. The fencer is only a year old.

It it possible that the fencer is only releasing a very weak pulse which the beeper can pick up but not enough to release a shock or is it definitely earthing (and I just haven't found it!)

Any advice??

wiggy123

did u test the earth for the fencer!
have you got it wired correctly?
also is there much touching the wire--ie, its not being earthed elsewhere,by error!
also is ur main earth-well down in the ground...
i have my earth-about 2metres long-with about 1.5 metre down in the ground,and its marshy ground where earth is..

vanderbadger

forcefield do a very good tester, its costs about 70 euro but will tell you what you are getting in term of output and will point you in direction of where you are loosing power, it helped me last year as I couldnt figure how my fence was way down on power, anyway by disconnecting areas and testing i narrowed it down and it turned out an piece of insulated wire running under ground was naked kinda broken and earthing away

wiggy123

i do try to put the insulated wire always through a length of piping if going underground with it..as it protects it...
or use heavy insulated wire, that u'd use for a house etc..
its in black...heavy wire through it also

pakalasa

With all the dry weather we have recently, you may be loosing the ground to earth. Locate the mains earth where you have the fence plugged in and also the earth of the fence unit itself. Pour some water around the earth bars of both. See it this helps.

I've heard of this causing 'stray electricity' in milking parlours before. The ground had just got too dry at the earth bar.

millertime78

pakalasa wrote: »

With all the dry weather we have recently, you may be loosing the ground to earth. Locate the mains earth where you have the fence plugged in and also the earth of the fence unit itself. Pour some water around the earth bars of both. See it this helps.

I've heard of this causing 'stray electricity' in milking parlours before. The ground had just got too dry at the earth bar.

Good tip, will try that. Must check the underground wires also

BeeDI

It's also usefull when setting up a fence line, to do it on blocks, which can be seperated from each other, by way of an inline breaker or other similar method.
It's great to be able to disconnect each block from the one before it, and with fence on walk around with a tester. You quickly isolate the blocks with the earthing problems, by testing block 1. If that is ok, switch on block 2 and test. So on and so on till you find the block with the problem.

And yes, dry ground around the earth bar's can always be a problem. Good idea is if water pipe runs local to it, to have a spur from the water pipe you can use to douse the area as weather demands.

bbam

My 2c worth...

I see a coment that you use use "heavy insulated wire, that u'd use for a house etc.."
I presume this isn't copper wire, copper wire attached onto non copper wire open to the elements will only work for a while, the oxides build up due to the moisture and eurrent present and create an insulating layer within the connection rendering it useless..

The best way to test an earth is to use the fence tester itself, put it on top of the earth bar and then push the ground wire into the soil, it shouldn't register any current, you can put youre hand on the earth rod and ground either and no shock should be present...

In poor soils up to 3 earth rods may be required each 2m long, 2m apart linked together... the fence is only as good as the earth.

If possible neither the fencer nor the earthing system should come or be housed anywhere close to a milking parlour... Cows are susceptable to mili-volts and fencers put out thousands of volts..

snowman707

bbam wrote: »

My 2c worth...

I see a coment that you use use "heavy insulated wire, that u'd use for a house etc.."
I presume this isn't copper wire, copper wire attached onto non copper wire open to the elements will only work for a while, the oxides build up due to the moisture and eurrent present and create an insulating layer within the connection rendering it useless..

The best way to test an earth is to use the fence tester itself, put it on top of the earth bar and then push the ground wire into the soil, it shouldn't register any current, you can put youre hand on the earth rod and ground either and no shock should be present...

In poor soils up to 3 earth rods may be required each 2m long, 2m apart linked together... the fence is only as good as the earth.

If possible neither the fencer nor the earthing system should come or be housed anywhere close to a milking parlour... Cows are susceptable to mili-volts and fencers put out thousands of volts..

very valid points

dar31

as bbam said its oly as good as its earth
if at all possible dig a hole and put in some kind of large metal object, small car would do rightly. wire it at multiple points and a few different wires in case of failure, and fill back in:D
gallagher do a fairly good tester, handy pocket sized, for e80

lalababa

Follow these instructions.
1. have a suitable fence unit for the length ( the longer the fence the more oppertuinity to lose voltage) and voltage (calfs >1.5Kv, cattle >2.5Kv)
2. have a tester that shows Kv (a voltometer will do 20euro)
3. earth with at least 1m metal rod and have area where earth wire is conected to rod filed clean to bare metal (no rust).
4. test voltage your fence unit is outputting before you connect it to the fence( most new type units for cattle will have a direct output of 4 to 6 Kv.)
5. Go along and check VISUALLY the whole fence run for grounding ( to ground, to stakes,grass etc.) and have suitable insulated wire for join ups accross gaps /ditches.
6.hook up unit to fence and test. if you get a poorish reading <2Kv you have to check test between all major links /join ups along as you go. >2Kv and your o.k. Also at times when fence is off the animals will break/lossen /earth your fence.
7. Remember your electric fence is only as strong as it's weakest point.

have2flushtwice

bbam wrote: »

My 2c worth...

I see a coment that you use use "heavy insulated wire, that u'd use for a house etc.."
I presume this isn't copper wire, copper wire attached onto non copper wire open to the elements will only work for a while, the oxides build up due to the moisture and eurrent present and create an insulating layer within the connection rendering it useless..

I must check mine at the weekend, it has the copper wire onto the fencing wire setup, and doesnt seem to have any shock in it, although my small tester with a bulb in it says otherwise, perhaps the shock is so small its not registering with the animals.

JOAT

Anyone use old copper cylinders as an earth? we have one in each of the out farms. They are buried about 3 feet and hooked up as normal along with two earth rods. One of the fences gives a reading of 7.2 at the moment with the wet ground!! The feckin thing would electrocute ya!! And it has a lot of ground to cover. Roughly 70 acres divided into fields of 7 to 12 acres!

have2flushtwice

have2flushtwice wrote: »

I must check mine at the weekend, it has the copper wire onto the fencing wire setup, and doesnt seem to have any shock in it, although my small tester with a bulb in it says otherwise, perhaps the shock is so small its not registering with the animals.

I checked mine at the weekend, (as above) i stripped back the connection onto the fence, and made a new connection, at a different point, - no change.
then I walked the entire fence with a clippers and billhook and cut back any bushes / grass/ thistles that were on the fence. still no joy. There is a foal in one field scratching his ass of a fence pole with the wire on it, so there isnt much in it.

the fence earth is onto the pillar in the hayshed, that hasnt been touched.
however, i noticed that the "tick" of the fence unit seems to be slower than it used to be. is this a sign of anything?

Muckit

Is the girder of the shed galvanised? It's not recommended to use any part of a shed structure.

Buy a few galvanised earth rods or get some galvanised pipe or bar and try them 2.5' + into the ground. Use at least two, if not three and space them about 10' apart. Better still if you can drive them near a wet spot like near a soakaway of septic tank percolation area Connect up all these earth bars with good quality insulated fence cable and attach to earth terminal of your fencer. Use another length to bring the power from the fencer to your fence. DO NOT USE COPPER wire, pipes etc. Everthing you use (wire, earth wires etc) should be galvanised. Now you have a good start point to work from and have eliminated the basic mistakes and elec fence shortcomings. As mentioned by another poster, it only takes one weak link to ruin the performance of your entire fence, so don't skimp or cut corners!

If you have these done right, a mains electric fencer unit should be able to burn away grass and light vegetation. Also if your fence was earthing, you'd hear it (when the fencer unit is earthed correctly), but you can't, so there is obviously very little current coming... animals are scratching off it for God sake!!

This would lead me to the conclusion that it has to be what I first mentioned.

Did the fence ever work right? Have you added to the fence length recently? If it's not an earthing issue, then the unit may not be big enough to power the length of fence you have.

have2flushtwice

thanks Muckit, very informative post.
the girder is not galvanised so that s astarting point.
the fence is inthe middle of the shed, near the sockets.
there is good quality insulated fence wire from the fence to the door of the shed. from here it runs accross a roadway, through the ditch and onto the start of the fence.
last year there was a lot of traffic on the roadway (concrete), so i got the consaw out, cut a trench, replaced the fence wire with copper wire...... buried it and cemented over it......this could be the issue. i will run a wire direct to the fence and see...

Bizzum

have2flushtwice wrote: »

the girder is not galvanised so that s astarting point.the fence is inthe middle of the shed, near the sockets.

If the girder is set in concrete it's a very poor earth. The location of the fencer unit has little to do with the effective working of it IF the earth is good and the output wire to the fence is good.

bbam

have2flushtwice wrote: »

thanks Muckit, very informative post.
the girder is not galvanised so that s astarting point.
the fence is inthe middle of the shed, near the sockets.
there is good quality insulated fence wire from the fence to the door of the shed. from here it runs accross a roadway, through the ditch and onto the start of the fence.
last year there was a lot of traffic on the roadway (concrete), so i got the consaw out, cut a trench, replaced the fence wire with copper wire...... buried it and cemented over it......this could be the issue. i will run a wire direct to the fence and see...

I'd be worried about the copper wire degrading, copper isn't designed to take the high voltage pulses and it will corrode where it joins onto steel causing an insulated layer between the two wires thus breaking the continuity of the fence..
If it's possible replace the copper wire with double insulated, fence wire.

Also the girder is in the middle of the shed so the ground at its base will be snuff dry and carry no earth whatsoever.. The earth needs to be outside and if possible not near a ditch, 3 steel stakes at least 1 meter into the ground and at least 1 meter apart.. During perlonged dry spells it's also advisable to leave a hose running round the earths if the fence is struggling as dry ground is a bad job..

pakalasa

The earth doesn't have to near the fencer either. You can take a seperate wire out of the shed to a better area for the earth spikes.

Muckit

have2flushtwice wrote: »

thanks Muckit, very informative post.
the girder is not galvanised so that s astarting point.
the fence is inthe middle of the shed, near the sockets.
there is good quality insulated fence wire from the fence to the door of the shed. from here it runs accross a roadway, through the ditch and onto the start of the fence.
last year there was a lot of traffic on the roadway (concrete), so i got the consaw out, cut a trench, replaced the fence wire with copper wire...... buried it and cemented over it......this could be the issue. i will run a wire direct to the fence and see...

tut tut :rolleyes: This is your problem. I bet where the copper wire is attached to the fence wire it's as rusty as f**K?? Am I right? Buy some good quality insulated fence cable (it should be hard to bend it, like HT wire) and replace the coper wire.

Also sort out your earths. A girder isn't the answer.

I bet you'I knock sparks out of that fence in no time !!

have2flushtwice

fcuk it lads im getting too excited about this for me own good!
will get at it at the weekend hopefully.
that foal will be jumping sooner than i had planned him to!

razor8

vanderbadger wrote: »

forcefield do a very good tester, its costs about 70 euro but will tell you what you are getting in term of output and will point you in direction of where you are loosing power, it helped me last year as I couldnt figure how my fence was way down on power, anyway by disconnecting areas and testing i narrowed it down and it turned out an piece of insulated wire running under ground was naked kinda broken and earthing away

where could i get on of those online?

doesnt look like you can buy on there website?

vanderbadger

razor8 wrote: »

where could i get on of those online?

doesnt look like you can buy on there website?

http://www.magentadirect.ie/proddetail.php?prod=FaultFinder&cat=19

delaval

Muckit wrote: »

tut tut :rolleyes: This is your problem. I bet where the copper wire is attached to the fence wire it's as rusty as f**K?? Am I right? Buy some good quality insulated fence cable (it should be hard to bend it, like HT wire) and replace the coper wire.

Also sort out your earths. A girder isn't the answer.

I bet you'I knock sparks out of that fence in no time !!

Muckit you are spot on. Earth should have no reading. Cable connecting rods to each other and on to fence should have no joints and be steel.

razor8

vanderbadger wrote: »

http://www.magentadirect.ie/proddetail.php?prod=FaultFinder&cat=19

got meself a wee fault finder as you suggested but confused, il explain

bought a Wolseley Mosquito Fencer off https://www.agridirect.ie/p/wolseley_mosquito_fencer and have a brand new 12v car battery attached

what is the max reading i should get, i am assuming 12 right?

my faultfinder says i am getting 2.4 - 3 off it right beside fencer with a -2 below which i know indicates direction of leakage, but surely i should be getting a reading of 8 or more on the top, help - awful frustrating as everything new

earth is on bank/slope of drain

any advice anyone

also what is 3kV equivalent in joules?