Knee trouble

*Angel*

I'm a bit of a casual runner I suppose because I play hockey too. But since the season ended I was hoping to focus more on running, I've found that switching my 3 usually hockey days to running is making my knees fairly achey afterwards. I assume this is because of the extra running on hard ground. What I want to know is will it get any better? Or do I need to cut my running back down and gradually build up the miles again? Btw my long run at the moment is 10km.

ecoli

Try to do your running on softer surfaces (grass/ trails) this may help to eleviate the pain

*Angel*

Thanks ecoli, that's not really an option at the moment I was kind of hoping for some other remedy thought it was a long shot!

RacoonQueen

What sort of shoes are you wearing?

digme

read born to run

Hooked

I'm fairly new to running myself and was suffering from knee trouble early on... I found (and I'm NOT generalising here) what worked for me was as follows.

1. Have a proper pronation and gait analysis done - and find footwear that suits YOUR feet. I haven't looked back sine lacing up my first pair of Asics Gel Kayanos.

2. I'm taking Glucosamine and Omega 3 to help my joints and cartilage. I'm nearly at the 3 month stage (to notice effects) and am just trying to give my joints AND KNEES the best help.

3. I suffered after the 3 month mark from "runners knee" and found in the last month or so that 'foam rolling' my IT (iliotibial) band and legs AND excercising/building up my quads by doing squats etc... is helping enormously as I wasn't doing any strength training on my days off.

4. I also stupidly ran on a sore ankle/peroneal tendon for a few nights which resulted in a 4 week break and physio... in short... listen to your body and don't make a bad thing worse!



In January I was of the opinion that just lacing up and hitting the roads was the way to go. My body and experiences these past 5 months has taught me otherwise...

Just my EUR0.02

Best of luck with your solution...

*Angel*

RacoonQueen wrote: »

What sort of shoes are you wearing?

Gel Kayanos with custom insoles due to back issues.

I started running over a year ago and never had knee problems before that's why i'm finding it weird that it cropped up all of a sudden.

Hooked wrote: »

2. I'm taking Glucosamine and Omega 3 to help my joints and cartilage. I'm nearly at the 3 month stage (to notice effects) and am just trying to give my joints AND KNEES the best help.

I wonder if this is worth trying, anyone else have anything positive to say about this?

Hooked wrote: »

4. I also stupidly ran on a sore ankle/peroneal tendon for a few nights which resulted in a 4 week break and physio... in short... listen to your body and don't make a bad thing worse!

That's what I'm worried about, but have the mini marathon coming up so was kind of hoping to up my times before it, then on to half then full (hoping for Dublin) Thanks Hooked.

BrokenMan

Best thing to do is probably to get an appointment with a physio and have them take a look to find out exactly what is wrong. They can suggest the correct exercises or stretching routines for you then. The last thing you want to do is neglect something that could be sorted out quickly early on.

tunney

ecoli wrote: »

Try to do your running on softer surfaces (grass/ trails) this may help to eleviate the pain

Does anyone actually find a difference between grass, trails and concrete?

--amadeus--

tunney wrote: »

Does anyone actually find a difference between grass, trails and concrete?

Personally no. In the main I tend to run on either concrete & tarmac (long runs) or concrete & gravel paths (other runs) but I have done sections on grass before as well and I've never noticed any difference no matter what the surface.

Logically though for a beginner or low mileage runner the cushioning of teh surface must be a factor

shels4ever

tunney wrote: »

Does anyone actually find a difference between grass, trails and concrete?

Yes for sure . After a 10 mile on grass i'd have no problems at all, a 10 mile on the road I would feel in the legs for a day or two. Maybe a weight issue i guess.

donothoponpop

tunney wrote: »

Does anyone actually find a difference between grass, trails and concrete?

I find a huge difference, specifically on the knees. Most of my running is on grass/trail/tarmacadam, and I never have pains in the knees. Whenever I'm forced to run on concrete (city training or road races), there's a noticable impact and jarring throughout the legs, and I'd often have knee pains after. Same shoes, same pace, different impact.

Having said that, I'd be on the heavier side for a runner.

--amadeus--

donothoponpop wrote: »

I find a huge difference, specifically on the knees. Most of my running is on grass/trail/tarmacadam, and I never have pains in the knees. Whenever I'm forced to run on concrete (city training or road races), there's a noticable impact and jarring throughout the legs, and I'd often have knee pains after. Same shoes, same pace, different impact.

Having said that, I'd be on the heavier side for a runner.

The answer is right there though - if most of your training is off road you are bound to feel it when you run on road. If most of your training is on road your body adapts. It's managing that adaptation is th key, imo.

donothoponpop

--amadeus-- wrote: »

The answer is right there though - if most of your training is off road you are bound to feel it when you run on road. If most of your training is on road your body adapts. It's managing that adaptation is th key, imo.

I get the same soreness from prolonged running over granite or rocky ground. Perhaps adaptation is a factor, but I'd still recommend anyone running in the city (particularly if they are heavy, or have knee trouble), to run on tarmac as much as they can, and see the difference versus concrete. Less impact will mean a longer running life.

tunney

donothoponpop wrote: »

I get the same soreness from prolonged running over granite or rocky ground. Perhaps adaptation is a factor, but I'd still recommend anyone running in the city (particularly if they are heavy, or have knee trouble), to run on tarmac as much as they can, and see the difference versus concrete. Less impact will mean a longer running life.

Any links of evidence to support this? Or is this more of an old wives tale.

Krusty_Clown

I don't generally find a big difference (though trail runs don't generally have the same profile, so can't really be compared), but a couple of laps of Dun Laoghaire's East Pier would do some damage to anyone. It's a polished/hardened concrete surface (just picture yourself running through Dundrum shopping centre), and I do despair any time I see anyone running on it, even in the most cushioned of trainers. The West Pier with it's gravel, weeds and uneven surface is so much better.

donothoponpop

tunney wrote: »

Any links of evidence to support this? Or is this more of an old wives tale.

A quick google gives this http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/general/top-10-running-surfaces/152.html link which suggests concrete is ten times denser than asphalt. Its anecdotal, but that doesn't preclude it being wrong. Or right.

Couldn't find any statistical research though. Are you suggesting there is no impact difference (that leads to stress injuries) between long-term running on concrete versus softer surfaces?

**edit**

This link is worth a look-Different running surfaces have different effects on performance and vary in the likelihood of causing an injury

*Angel*

Well now I've definitely noticed that when I run in my park (which would be split half path half grass) that my back is a lot happier so probably the same thing for my knees now. Btw my weight shouldn't be the problem for me.

I think maybe I'll go to a physio and hopefully sort it out before it becomes a problem

Thanks for everyones help

ir666

I have been told recently by a top knee doc that there is no evidence to support glucosomine use.

So I have stopped taking it.

Strength training & stretching focusing on the quads is the way to go.

Killerz

On the trail/ grass vs concrete debate: I do 80-85% of training on concrete, with the balance on woody trail/ grass. For me, trail is definitely easier on the knees while running and also the feeling afterwards. However, it did pose other challenges, such as not rolling over on your ankles!

Incidentally, the trail ultra I did recently - 55km over trail - mixed rocky, woodland, mud, grass and sand - I recovered a lot quicker with much less knee pain (despite sever ascents and descents) than any marathon or the recent 30k that i did on concrete, despite the longer distance.

While I was running a slower pace, I still think the softer ground helped enormously.

That was my experience anyhow.