entitlements

coolshannagh28

Looking to buy 10 entitlements any value considered

lanod2407

Think you're late - May 17 closing date - Today?

coolshannagh28

Worth a try ,Im a new entrant who missed out on national reserve .

DagneyTaggart

Question for those in the know:

If you rent your land out in land lease for say 5 years does that meant you can't use the land to draw down entitlements?

Thanks.

reilig

DagneyTaggart wrote: »

Question for those in the know:

If you rent your land out in land lease for say 5 years does that meant you can't use the land to draw down entitlements?

Thanks.

Technically you can't. But there is often a clause in the rental agreement that the person renting the land from you draws down your entitlements in their name and pays them back to you on top of the rent per acre. Well it has been that way with any land that io have tried to rent over the last few years anyway.

lanod2407

Bought entitlements from an Auctioneer 2 weeks before the deadline and sent him in the completed forms as the Buyer - he said he'd sent all the stuff into the Dept ....... and I get a letter from the Dept on the 18th telling me that the guy sent in a photocopy that's not acceptable. He didn't make any mistake cashing the cheque!!!!
The conversation I had with the auctioneer wouldn't be fit for transmission after any watershed - but I might as well have been talking to the wall. He's now "found" my original and has committed to submitting it to the Dept - I can tell you I'm one pissed-off individual dealing with spanners who cant do the most straight-forward task.

Now I wait ................. bite me!

coolshannagh28

The whole single payment scheme is skewed against new entrants and young farmers and policy going forward seems to be to keep it that way.

PANADOL

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

The whole single payment scheme is skewed against new entrants and young farmers and policy going forward seems to be to keep it that way.

Could you explain what you mean i thought it was a case of having money to buy entitlements and a herd no with acreage to cover entitlements purchased, or are the dept just being difficult delberately?

coolshannagh28

If you started farming in Ireland after the qualifying years in early 00s ,the only way to secure SFP was by the national reserve which seems virtually impossible on age ,income ,dates and other criteria ,or to purchase entitlements ,which although financially balanced by the market puts you at a disadvantage financially to those who qualified for SFP earlier .To my knowledge the EU is proposing a flat rate payment based on area farmed and other current farming activity ,which is the system used in much of Europe.This seems much fairer as under our historical system theoretically in 50 years time a qualified farmer from earlier could still have a SFP while I, having started a year too late would have none

galwayhillbilly

I have a small place that is currently let on the 11 months system, unfortunately we were not actively farming during the reference years. One of the things that has stopped us from farming is the lack of entitlements. We really want to get our land back and work it ourselves but at a profit. The rent is a guaranteed annual income, farming without entitlements is a bit of russian roullette. We would have done it this year but we are saving and dont have the money to stock it yet
What should I do? a) buy entitlements in 2011 on the basis that whoever has them under the new scheme will be entitled to keep them/exchange them for the new scheme or b) Sit and wait and hope that the new scheme will be based solely on land actively farmed and have nothing to do with historical payments.

Which option are the farmers organisations lobbying for?

the reason I ask is 2 fold 1) I spoke to a farmer who bought a lot of qouta in the years preceding the last CAP reform and ended up with nothing because he didnt own the quota in the reference years, the fellahs who sold him the qouta gained on the double I dont want that to happen to me 2) With so little time left on the old scheme how can I expect to get any return on them obviously wont be buying until next year. So with only 2 years left on them surely most entilements should be selling for face value at the most.

ellewood

galwayhillbilly wrote: »

I have a small place that is currently let on the 11 months system, unfortunately we were not actively farming during the reference years. One of the things that has stopped us from farming is the lack of entitlements. We really want to get our land back and work it ourselves but at a profit. The rent is a guaranteed annual income, farming without entitlements is a bit of russian roullette. We would have done it this year but we are saving and dont have the money to stock it yet
What should I do? a) buy entitlements in 2011 on the basis that whoever has them under the new scheme will be entitled to keep them/exchange them for the new scheme or b) Sit and wait and hope that the new scheme will be based solely on land actively farmed and have nothing to do with historical payments.

Which option are the farmers organisations lobbying for?

the reason I ask is 2 fold 1) I spoke to a farmer who bought a lot of qouta in the years preceding the last CAP reform and ended up with nothing because he didnt own the quota in the reference years, the fellahs who sold him the qouta gained on the double I dont want that to happen to me 2) With so little time left on the old scheme how can I expect to get any return on them obviously wont be buying until next year. So with only 2 years left on them surely most entilements should be selling for face value at the most.

i agree i started in 2008 and put in application for national reserve still nothin in 2010,theyknocked me on the smallest of smallest of technacalities but im still on to them at this stage they must have a copy of nearly every detail of me, was going to just buy em before last may but they were just too dear, between now and 2012 id have got a very small return on money and it looks ever more likely that historical system is gone or at least changed a lot,but guarenteed next year there will be lads buying em for twice their value just to have em if they were face value they probobly wud be worth the gamble them but its very hard to be in the black in the bank without em as the prifit you make from actual farming isnt hectic but sher id rather be at nothin else.

coolshannagh28

The farming organisations are promoting the historical system ,the IFA pushed it big time on Pat Kenny show last week but he wrote them off. How do they expect to encourage new blood and younger farmers in if they dont operate a transparent system on payments.The general public see farmers as sitting ducks on this issue as it is basically a monopoly on payment by people some of whom dont even farm any more.To their credit MACRA are in favour of payment on current activity and reading between the lines the EU are fed up with our way of doing business farming and otherwise and will impose similar systems to wider Europe here in all areas of business

blue5000

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

The whole single payment scheme is skewed against new entrants and young farmers and policy going forward seems to be to keep it that way.

Yes, and ifa off to brussels to lobby to leave >100k entitlements alone, must be working for hrh queen elizabeth who has the largest sfp in europe!! Im open to correction on this though.

ellewood

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

The farming organisations are promoting the historical system ,the IFA pushed it big time on Pat Kenny show last week but he wrote them off. How do they expect to encourage new blood and younger farmers in if they dont operate a transparent system on payments.The general public see farmers as sitting ducks on this issue as it is basically a monopoly on payment by people some of whom dont even farm any more.To their credit MACRA are in favour of payment on current activity and reading between the lines the EU are fed up with our way of doing business farming and otherwise and will impose similar systems to wider Europe here in all areas of business

well the new ag comm has said that he defo favours scrapping the historic payments so maybe there will be a level playing pitch in a few years time so active farmers both young or old will get paid sfp on active farming activity

lanod2407

Guys

At my wits end here - the Dept still haven't had my Entitlements transfer corrected from the Auctioneer.

I sent him a second form that I'd signed and he'd then have to get the Seller to complete it and send it in to the Dept with the original letter from them stating the error on the initial submission.

I called him this week, and the LANGER from Mallow told me that if it didn't get sorted I could sue him. He won't tell me what he's going to do to fix it and will only commit to doing it "soon".
The Dept told me that they hardly ever get incorrect submissions (mine was sent in as a photo-copy and the Buyer and Seller details were on different forms!!!!) and that mine was a complete mess. The auctioneer insisted that errors happen all the time and that what he sent in should have been accepted.

Anyone got any advice? I'm tempted to drive down the Mallow for a face-to-face meeting to get this fixed, but would fear that I'd make the 6 o'clock News if I did!!!!! :mad:

agcons

If you have lost all confidence in the auctioneer to sort this out you could suggest getting the form off him and going directly to the seller yourself for his signature then bring it up in person to Portlaoise yourself. At least then you would have peace of mind. The seller is unlikely to have been paid yet and may be unaware of the problems. You re lucky in that the Dept are being reasonable about it and giving you a chance to sort it out

galwayhillbilly

So the general consensus would seem to be that buying entitlements at an inflated price would probably be a mistake at this stage, there will obviously be a lead in period between the historical system and the new system, how long was that the last time round?