Silicon Sealant for dishwasher seal

Macy0161

Hi, The leak alarm and emptying process is kicking in on our powerpoint dishwasher. I've tried the tipping it forward to empty the chamber, but that only works short term. Part of the rubber seal at the bottom of the door is loose, and I suspect this could be the cause, or at least a possible cause i could tackle myself. Do I need a food grade sealant for this? And if so, can anyone point me in the direction of where to get it, what I should be getting and a possible supplier? Would a standard DIY/ Hardware shop stock something that'll do the job? I'm in Wicklow, and work in South Dublin...

If that doesn't work, is it worth getting someone out to look at or is it a false economy on a machine 5 years plus old? I am aware that powerpoint has an awful reputation - it came with the kitchen but in fairness this is the first bit of trouble.

Macy0161

Back in work, so time to look . Would this be safe to use to try and reseal the dishwasher seal? http://radionics.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=4590232 Thanks in advance to anyone who can give advice!

Joey the lips

786 is an acetoxy and frm memory has high flex ability


To be honest you CANNOT use silicone in your application for 2 reasons.

1. You would need to buy a pure silicone with no memory so it would tack to the door and reestablish a seal every time the door opens. As the silicone would be low tack it would come away.

2. Silcone is not designed for this type of movement.


However if you are really determined just buy any neutral clear silicone and give it a go... Woodies does the range of Dow you featured. I think 781 was a neutral but you will have to look.

Your best bet tbh is to buy some common rubber door seal.

Macy0161

Thanks. It's to stick back in the rubber strip at the bottom of the door, rather than replace the door seal with silicone?

I've got confirmation from Everbuild that their "Food Mate" silicone will be safe. Whether it does the job, or more particularly solves the leak issue, is a different matter...

CJhaughey

Most RTV silicones have poor adhesive qualities, better to use something like Tec-7 or similar.

Joey the lips

Macy0161 wrote: »

Thanks. It's to stick back in the rubber strip at the bottom of the door, rather than replace the door seal with silicone?

I've got confirmation from Everbuild that their "Food Mate" silicone will be safe. Whether it does the job, or more particularly solves the leak issue, is a different matter...

It does not need to be food safe just needs to be neutral so it does not react with the metal

CJhaughey wrote: »

Most RTV silicones have poor adhesive qualities, better to use something like Tec-7 or similar.

RTV Room temperature vulcanisation...ie silicones that cure at room temp. I doubt the op knew that. However as a dishwasher seal works at 65 deg I dont these will do and yes if I was the op I would try Tec 7.

Macy0161

Thanks guys. I'd already ordered the food mate, but if it doesn't hold I'll try the tec 7. Even if the food mate doesn't last too long, I assume it will at least last long enough for me to be able to establish if the loose rubber is the cause of the leak/ leak alarm.

antiskeptic

Macy0161 wrote: »

Thanks guys. I'd already ordered the food mate, but if it doesn't hold I'll try the tec 7. Even if the food mate doesn't last too long, I assume it will at least last long enough for me to be able to establish if the loose rubber is the cause of the leak/ leak alarm.

I've a Powerpoint too and it may be that it's design is the same as mine. Open the door right down and look at the area the machine the seal would sit above when the door is closed. It's probably full of grime! You'll notice (in amongst the grime) a bit of plastic tubing poking upwards - near the sidewalls: one tube on the left, one tube on the right. The purpose of these tubes is to route the water overflow (if a fault causes the machine to overflow) down to the base to set off that E4 alarm - and not let it overflow onto peoples potentially expensive kitchen flooring.

Normally your closed door/door seal will shield these tubes from splashes entering them. If the seal is loose or missing in these areas then not. Alternatively, it could be that you're positioning the plates, etc in such a way as to direct more water into this area than occasional drips into the tubes (which would evaporate in time) can cope with.

I found that if I placed a plate at 90 degrees to the normal way at the very front (ie: at the door) of the bottom tray then this problem would occur

Macy0161

Yes antiskeptic, it was the E4 alarm code, and it is the strip that runs along the bottom of the door that is loose. I'll do a better job of cleaning the grime though as well if that could be a contributory factor.

I don't think it's plate position, as I did the trick of pulling out and tipping the machine to empty the chamber that sets off the alarm and tried running it empty and still got the alarm, and it was then I noticed the rubber being loose. I'm awaiting delivery of the food mate, but thanks, as your post has made me a bit more optimistic!

antiskeptic

Macy0161 wrote: »

Yes antiskeptic, it was the E4 alarm code, and it is the strip that runs along the bottom of the door that is loose. I'll do a better job of cleaning the grime though as well if that could be a contributory factor.

I don't think it's plate position, as I did the trick of pulling out and tipping the machine to empty the chamber that sets off the alarm and tried running it empty and still got the alarm, and it was then I noticed the rubber being loose. I'm awaiting delivery of the food mate, but thanks, as your post has made me a bit more optimistic!

Note that simply tipping the machine forward won't necessarily clear the problem. There's a depression in the floor of the machine in which a polystyrene float sits. Water leaking from the machine ends up at this lowest point - raising the float and setting off the alarm

Tipping the machine causes the water to flow from this hollow, but it only runs onto the floor of the machine proper and so, when you set the machine back, the water flows back into that hollow setting off the alarm You'd need to be doing some tipping to get the water right out of the area.

Mines a Powerpoint IDW12. I notice that (after clearing all the grime out of the way - ugh!) that the door seal seems to be clamped in place by the door panel. The seal is a two lip affair and seems to be pressed against the floor of the machine when the door is closed. Overflow water could only access those drain tubes by running around the side of the seal so sure, if the seal is displaced, you're going to get problems. Water would likely run down the door > underneath the door > drip off right into those tubes.

It might be better to attempt to work the seal back into it's clamped-position with a knife (mains disconnected) rather than trying to stick it in place - there doesn't seem to be a whole lot to stick it too. Unless the seal is ripped - in which case you might be able to press in a strip of rubber on front of the seal that's already there (a bicycle tube?)

The stainless panel that forms the machine side of the door is pretty flimsy so it shouldn't be too hard to work a seal in.

Best of luck all the same - let's know what worked

Macy0161

Can't remember the model number but will have another look. From memory it doesn't sound the same place, but I'll have another look. And yes, will post back one way or the other.

rubadub

Macy0161 wrote: »

Thanks guys. I'd already ordered the food mate

We have used foodmate in work for years, from seeing machines coming back for servicing it seems to hold up well, it is in water boilers at 95C 24/7 for many years. We also have the DOW stuff listed. There is no real need for foodgrade as mentioned, many petshops can stock foodgrade stuff as it is used in aquariums. I think the foodmate also has fungicidal properties.

Joey the lips

rubadub wrote: »

We have used foodmate in work for years, from seeing machines coming back for servicing it seems to hold up well, it is in water boilers at 95C 24/7 for many years. We also have the DOW stuff listed. There is no real need for foodgrade as mentioned, many petshops can stock foodgrade stuff as it is used in aquariums. I think the foodmate also has fungicidal properties.

Not to be padantic but it cannot be a fungacide and food mate I cant remember why and I am open to correction.... Its a long time since i imported it...

rubadub

http://www.findtheneedle.co.uk/products/2275660-food-mate-silicone-sealant.asp

Description: A high modulus food safe and fungicidal silicone sealant and adhesive designed for areas where repeated food contact is likely. Meets FDA regulations

Joey the lips

rubadub wrote: »

http://www.findtheneedle.co.uk/products/2275660-food-mate-silicone-sealant.asp

My apologies... I just realised that was an everbuild product... Sorry for the mistake... I was confusing it with a geocel product...

Macy0161

Just got an email saying that they're awaiting delivery of the foodmate, so that's off the list (order cancelled). :rolleyes:

I spotted Tec7 in B&Q over the weekend, so assuming they still have it, I'll be giving that a try (taking the advice that it doesn't need to be food safe for the job in question).

Macy0161

I think I did a reasonable job on the seal, but it hasn't solved the problem and if it's not that, I can't see anywhere else obvious - but thanks for the advice guys. We've pretty much decided we'll go for a replace at this stage, given the age and amount of use its taken.

antiskeptic

Macy0161 wrote: »

I think I did a reasonable job on the seal, but it hasn't solved the problem and if it's not that, I can't see anywhere else obvious - but thanks for the advice guys. We've pretty much decided we'll go for a replace at this stage, given the age and amount of use its taken.

Did you happen to notice the overflow tubes I was talking about? If so, you could plug them and see if the problem goes away. If so, then it might well be your doorseal not adequately shielding them.

Or perhaps the level in the machine is too high and your getting overflow that way rather than splashes. Checking the level when it E4's should tell you. Seems a shame to dump a nearly functioning machine without knowing that it's uneconomical to fix.

Macy0161

I did notice them, and I was tempted to try and block the one on the side that the seal was loose. If the other one was left unblocked, would that be enough to protect against potential flood damage?

antiskeptic

Macy0161 wrote: »

I did notice them, and I was tempted to try and block the one on the side that the seal was loose. If the other one was left unblocked, would that be enough to protect against potential flood damage?

Would seem like an option alright. Just make sure to clean the gunge away from that area every now and again and poke the remaining tube clear and I don't see why not. They both lead down to the E4 sump.