First Fix electrics, what cables?

country home

First Fix electrics, what cables?

Hi all,

Currently mid way through first fix electrics on my new build, and I’m thinking of the below. Please feel free to give your opinion on each item. (dormer house with Hollowcore) ie. Once the ceiling downstairs is sealed, that’s it.

1, Cat5/6. . . . I might be needing this at the tv points (main ones) in the future, which cable Cat 5/6/7. . . is 5 like a standard network cable, that’s all I want, but opinions welcome


2, Speaker Cable in Kitchen, was thinking of ceiling speakers, but I’m now thinking 4 corners of the room, I’ve seen really neat and tidy spearkers about 4 inch sq. . . . . . reason for this is that the kitchen is about 6X6meters sq, and don’t want a tv/radio to sound crap in such a big room. . . . . sometimes I wonder is this even worth it, I mean ill need to have an amp then, and more than likely 2 remotes, . . its all just too fussy. . . opinions please. . .


3, Security Camera Cable, Can someone in the know let me know what cable I should run to future proof installation of security cameras for outside. , , , I was thinking of running a few cables to 1 or 2 locations so that if I look in to it in the future I won’t have hassle running cable. . . . . but what cables are needed?


4, Motorised Satellite Dish. . My dad has a channel master running with actuator, and has an electric cable running from the echostar to the dish. . . 36v output on the receiver. My question is, if I was to go motorised in the future should I also leave an electric cable for this, or is there something now which runs on the coax cable?. . what cable is best for this?


5, Surround sound. . . I used to be a real techy when it came to sound, but got fed up trying to create the perfect surround sound in an odd shaped room. . . in the new house I have 2 TV rooms, one is rectangle and the other is Sq, both TVs will be in corners of the room, so with that I said, ‘you know what forget it, get a good sound system for around the tv, and pull out the ‘speaker on stands’ when you want ‘surround’. Another reason why I find it pointless, is that with any sound system you have a separate Amp, so that if im watching Sky, I would have 2 remotes. .(this wrecks my head) I prefer to use sound on TV only. . . . . get fed up of switching tv on/off, amp on/off. . . one remote for sound other for TV/sky, another for DVD/blue ray . . Please feel free to convince me otherwise, id be interested in a few point of views, maybe it’s not what I’m thinking these days. . . . . now’s the time I guess. . .



Ok, that’s it, if you think of anything non-standard and I should look at for the future, feel free to post it. . .as I said, this is it, its now or never. .

Thanks

sinnerboy

Don't forget
power cables to your heating system thermostats
smoke /heat detector

sunnysoutheast

On the network cabling side CAT5e is probably the highest standard you'll get to unless you go to a specialist installer rather than an electrician. CAT6 and 7 are very sensitive to bend radius etc. and can give worse performance than 5e if damaged during installation. Run the cables back to a fixed location and you can put in a switch, NAS boxes etc. A structured cabling system can be used for internet, streaming, CCTV, phone, etc. Suggest you post in the Tech->Networks forum for detail on this. I'd say 4 cables at least to each room, plus more to the front door etc.

Would also be worth putting in ducting and/or fishwires in known places for things like ceiling speakers/projector cables etc.

SSE

gman2k

I would advise putting in the highest spec CAT cable you can get your hands on - put it in properly and you are future proof for a few years.
EG CAT 6 can be used for HD TV transmission, security cameras, loudspeakers etc (I answered a few of your queries there :-)
I would bring two CAT 6 in every run, and plan your bedrooms etc so as to install a computer network at a later date and have a PC feed.
CAT 6 can also be run to light switch locations so you can go home automation.

For your SAT dish - have a think about your LNB - again I would up the numbers and install an OCTO LNB, and bring 8 sat cables to this point. a power cable would be handy if you want to motorise the dish, but for most people different LNBs do the job. (the way I see it, internet will be via SAT within the next decade.)

Plan an AV room or large cabinet position somewhere in your house and bring all speaker/ TV/ Radio/ CAT6/ Telecoms back here and keep all this stuff centralised and out of sight.

re your feeling about two remotes and you're happy with the TV sound..... well I won't go into that, but for me it's home cinema all the way, if needs be I'll get a programmable remote that'll handle the TV, 2 amps., DVD or Bluray, CD player, PC, game console etc etc etc....

sunnysoutheast

gman2k wrote: »

I would advise putting in the highest spec CAT cable you can get your hands on - put it in properly and you are future proof for a few years.
EG CAT 6 can be used for HD TV transmission, security cameras, loudspeakers etc (I answered a few of your queries there :-)
I would bring two CAT 6 in every run, and plan your bedrooms etc so as to install a computer network at a later date and have a PC feed.
CAT 6 can also be run to light switch locations so you can go home automation.

For your SAT dish - have a think about your LNB - again I would up the numbers and install an OCTO LNB, and bring 8 sat cables to this point. a power cable would be handy if you want to motorise the dish, but for most people different LNBs do the job. (the way I see it, internet will be via SAT within the next decade.)

Plan an AV room or large cabinet position somewhere in your house and bring all speaker/ TV/ Radio/ CAT6/ Telecoms back here and keep all this stuff centralised and out of sight.

re your feeling about two remotes and you're happy with the TV sound..... well I won't go into that, but for me it's home cinema all the way, if needs be I'll get a programmable remote that'll handle the TV, 2 amps., DVD or Bluray, CD player, PC, game console etc etc etc....

There's no point paying for CAT6 cable or above unless the people putting it in know what they are about, i.e. make sure it's not an electrician pulling it through like T&E. Then you have to buy CAT6-compliant modules, panels, and certify the network. CAT5e is a little more tolerant of bends and rough handling but not by much.

You can't effectively run analogue speaker signals over network cable, you may as well use bell wire. If you have to put in cables get some oxygen-free cable.

Also make sure the network cables don't run next to or cross mains cables.

SSE

homewardbound11

ust in the middle of this myself and a strong suggestion would be to think this one out then make a start. By the time you have your first few hundred metres of cables you will want to change your design and have to run more.

Security.

I ran 6 and 8 core alarm flex in a few basic zones.
Zone.. Windows upstairs (contacts only)
Zone ..Windows down stairs (contact and shock)
Zone.. Front door
Zone Back door
Zone... PIR Hallway
Zone...PIR\ Kitchen
Zone PIR rear entry
2 Keypads and 2 sounders external.

Cameras.. Run either specialized camera cable that has power and rg59 coax or if you want run rg59 and flex to carry the 12 v power.
Run cat 5e alongside this incase your camera is a ip network camera

Audio cables.
43 or 79 strand .75 to 1.5mm will get all you want to your speakers for multiroom unless you are really freakish about your sound quality. Your surround sound is something for your theatre room.
I am running audio for kitchen, hall, downstairs to a single area and running wired sonas from there solely for music. This will link into my htpc where my 60 gb of music is stored. Still toying with an amp also here.

AV...
AV is a little trickier and I am working mostly with video stored on htpc's and freeview on DVB-S" cards and then distributing it around the home. The first choice i had to make was to localise it (front end) or keep everyingthing backend at the tv. In the end i did both. I wired to a central room and then on to the local tv. This means more wires but keeps everything very flexible. Really it will be no more than a few hundred euro.
What Cables,,
I wired 4 cat 5e's to your theatre or living rooms. Reason being, not alone can data be streamed but you can use 2 of the 5e's to deliver hdmi over them. Dont forget to wire for seperate audio to the tv. It may not always be possible to run audio over hdmi.
Dont forget to wire for possible ir links both to local units and possibly back to central localized room.
Run 2 rg6 for satellite and 2 for digital terrestial. Generally i kept these to the central room with only a few exceptions where i kept sky boxes to local tv's in the home. Use distribution units or loftboxes to send dtt and cctv etc to rooms either over modulated signal or stored on the htpc.
Run CAT 6 for HD content to your most used tvs or htpc's on the network.
Wire cat 5 back to the central unit form all tv's as here you may want to store your media server or network storage.
CAT 6 isnt that expensive but is harder to run. I'm sure if fecked up one or two runs of them .

Heating.
Dont forget to wire cat 5e to the thermostats. Hopefully there will be a thermo stat that can take a network input from a pc.

Face plates and outlets.
I got all mine from the u.k. and used modules as apposed to ready made face plates. This kept it very flexible.

Hopefully my madness will be successfull otherwise it will be expensive insulation form the home.

I wont go into the electrical wiring but am a fan of multicore cabling in the form of 7 core. It gives huge redundancy in lighting wiring. It allowed me to wire back to the fuse panel for future proffing and allowing the switching to be done remotely if needed.

Best of luck ..

knx

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

There's no point paying for CAT6 cable or above unless the people putting it in know what they are about, i.e. make sure it's not an electrician pulling it through like T&E. Then you have to buy CAT6-compliant modules, panels, and certify the network. CAT5e is a little more tolerant of bends and rough handling but not by much.

You can't effectively run analogue speaker signals over network cable, you may as well use bell wire. If you have to put in cables get some oxygen-free cable.

+1 on this.

Cat 5e is adequate for anything you might throw at it in a domestic situation. I agree that it should always be run in pairs and every tv point should have a pair as well as an rg6.(coax) When buying your cat 5 make sure it is decent stuff as there is a lot of cheap sh1t floating about, especially at the moment.
OP have you considered recessed ceiling speakers for your kitchen and also your surround sound. I've done a few surround sound systems with recessed speakers and achieved surprisingly good results. When buying your speaker cable get at least 49 strand (equivalent to 1.5 sq). Don't spend a fortune on this cause speaker cable is just speaker cable. The only difference will be the cross sectional area.
For your cctv run rg59+2core shotgun cable and a cat5 to each camera position. This will allow for analogue or ip cameras.
I've been researching the satellite thing lately with a view to doing without sky in my own house. IMO the multi lnb setup is the way to go as there is no lag when waiting for the dish to position itself. Big dish required though it seems. But each to their own.
I think your concern over all the remotes is unwarranted. There are plenty of universal remotes out there to do anything you want. Logitech do the Harmony range which are pretty good for single room applications or you can spend a few quid and go for something like a Philips Pronto or Nevo and control the whole house with one.

My attitude is wire for absolutely everything and then decide waht you are actually going to install when the time comes. As you say yourself its now or never...

Pocky

knx wrote: »

+1 on this.

Cat 5e is adequate for anything you might throw at it in a domestic situation.

Great statement and makes sure Ireland stays behind the rest of the world!
Finland, for example, requires all new builds and renovation to hat AT LEAST Cat6 Class E by legislation for more than two years now! They stoped using Cat5 around 6 years ago!

So, put already outdated Cat5 in your house where you will live for the next 50 years

sunnysoutheast

Pocky wrote: »

Great statement and makes sure Ireland stays behind the rest of the world!
Finland, for example, requires all new builds and renovation to hat AT LEAST Cat6 Class E by legislation for more than two years now! They stoped using Cat5 around 6 years ago!

So, put already outdated Cat5 in your house where you will live for the next 50 years

If you want to put CAT6 or 7 in your house, then that's fine and laudable, but it has to be done properly. If corners are cut then you're wasting your money, simple as that. CAT5 at least has the benefit that it's somewhat more tolerant of installation, so there is a trade-off you can make. I remember going to someone's build and their expensive CAT6 cable had planks lying on it.

SSE

country home

ok thanks all, I have ran Cat5e to main tv points, going back to one location with tv/alarm.

ran rg59 + 2core + 1 cat 5e to CCTV locations.


just to make a comment on some posts here regarding the use of real (high spec) stuff for ireland (west of ireland)..

I agree that other countries are ahead, and well ahead. . . but im living in Ireland, a user posted a comment that Finland chucked out cat 5 6yrs ago, all i can say to that is most people only had dial up in ireland 5 yrs ago. . . . I live in a country and in a particular location where if i ask for 1MB line i get .8 €45, and if i want a 3MB i get 1.7MB €50. .. .anyone using High spec stuff will want to generate there own uses.. . . because if your waiting for a provider (at a reasonable price) the time taken will only produce better technology. sorry if my opinion isnt favoured. but you can only act with what we have today. . . and by today i mean today in ireland and with the uses we have in mind. .

thanks again all

Calibos

I agree with the last poster. I think a lot of people seem to want to prepare their houses for the Minority Report technology:D If you were to follow some of the Structured cabling future proofing advice on these and other forums you'd have to get the engineers in to spec RSJ's over every wall because you'd have weakened the structure of internal walls so much with all the Cat 5/6 runs and ducting going to TV points, powerpoints, rads, light switches, light fittings, boilers, fridges etc etc. God Dammit, its the 21st century man, I want to be able to turn up the heating, start the kettle boiling, turn on me electric blanket, turn on the sexy lights etc etc all from me IPhone on the way home from the pub with the bint I just scored.

Jaysus, how did we ever survive the trials and tribulations of getting our fat asses up off the couch to turn on the lamp or turn up the thermostat on the central heating! :rolleyes:

Look, video is the major bandwidth eater. A gigabit network can cope with multiple 1080p streams. Cat 5e can cope with gigabit. Jobs a goodin'

But what about the future man? The future is that 2k and 4k res video in the pipeline and trialing in Japan is a white elephant. At average plasma screen sizes and irish house dictated viewing distances, 1080p is overkill resolution wise never mind 2k or 4k. Look I can't see the difference between 720p and 1080p on a 9ft projection screen!! The public nor the broadcasters nor the legistlators are going to push for anything beyond 1080p for decades by which time we will all have redecorated and ran Cat20.

I'll make do with my 'thick' home as opposed to 'smart' home and me IR light dimmer switch until such time as they sell the wifi smart x20 lightswitch for 20 euro instead of the Cat5 wired networked x10 lightswitch for 300

........and do you know what, I have a 70 year old pair of copper wires running into my house that have the capability of delivering nearly 24mbit into my gaff that only 12 or 13 years ago was only capable of 33k. I have a feeling they'll come up with gear to send much more data around my cat5e wired house along with the other millions of people that only have lowly cat5e rather than limiting themselves to the minority of domestic users that had the 'foresight' to wire with cat6.

Me, I ran two WF100 grade coax and 2 Cat5e to every room.

ricman

IF YOU are just using sky sat theres no need for a motor as all the satellites you need are at 28degrees east.

country home

i prob use everything but sky. . .

soldsold

Homewardbound11,

Would you mind summarising the cable bundle you put behind each TV?

Is it 2 No. RG6 for satellite,
2 No. Cat 6 for HDMI over Cat6?
1 No. Cat 5 for data to TV eg internet connection?
1 No ??? for audio to TV
More?

Thanks,

Steve